Large plane discussion

[Devil's Advocate]

Not sure, but it might relate to the ability to connect to flights to other cities if you arrive in the morning....

Connections are one reason. Slot scheduling and fleet availability is another. In my case even if I'm connecting I prefer to stop and rest after crossing an ocean. Flying overnight and arriving in the morning leaves me tired with nowhere to rest when I arrive. I'm dying for a real bed by the time we reach the Heathrow funnel. Morning departures and evening arrivals help mitigate jet lag and knowing you have a hotel ready on arrival makes for a much more relaxing trip.

 

[railiner]

But judging by the nightly convoy of red-eye's, the vast majority of people prefer to save the expense of one night's lodging. The upper class "arrival's lounge's", improve that experience, offering a nice shower on arrival....

 

[Devil's Advocate]

But judging by the nightly convoy of red-eye's, the vast majority of people prefer to save the expense of one night's lodging. The upper class "arrival's lounge's", improve that experience, offering a nice shower on arrival....

If you can afford a ticket with arrival lounge access the cost of an extra hotel night is unlikely to be a problem. It's hard to say if most travelers actually prefer a redeye flight since they rarely have much choice in the matter.

 

[railiner]

If you can afford a ticket with arrival lounge access the cost of an extra hotel night is unlikely to be a problem. It's hard to say if most travelers actually prefer a redeye flight since they rarely have much choice in the matter.

Good points...
For retirees, it doesn't matter much, but for those on a limited vacation, flying overnight saves not only the expense of a hotel, but a day of precious vacation time. As for the extra expense of a seat offering arrival lounge access....many people pay for that on daylight flights as well, just for the comfort on the long flight...

 

[jis]

I think the preponderance of trans Atlantic flights eastbound being overnight has more to do with more efficient fleet utilization first and consumer convenience or not second, sort of similar to why most flights from/to Europe and the US to/from India arrive and depart India between 11pm and 4am IST..

The few daytime flights that are there from the US to Europe are all part of a multi-flight per day schedule for the airline running them. If an airline has just one or two flights it is overnight from the US to Europe, almost without exception.

 

[jiml]

I also recall something from years ago about more favorable air currents overnight, resulting in less fuel burn - probably less of a factor with today's aircraft.

It's hard to say if most travelers actually prefer a redeye flight since they rarely have much choice in the matter.

Exactly right. I believe you can count the number of daytime TATL flights on your fingers - even pre-Covid, as opposed to the hundreds of overnighters. In the current situation there's no easy way to check, but I think only BOS, JFK, EWR, IAD and YYZ ever had regular daytime service to Europe. AA tried one from both MIA and DFW, but they were just too long to guarantee a pre-midnight arrival in London (and Heathrow does have a curfew/quota for late arrivals). Even Delta doesn't have one from its Atlanta hub.

 

[PVD]

The planes need to be able to turn and come back in the other direction.....they don't schedule to optiomize for one way traffic, they schedule for what works best (for them) in both....

 

[jiml]

The planes need to be able to turn and come back in the other direction.....they don't schedule to optiomize for one way traffic, they schedule for what works best (for them) in both....

You're right of course, but in the case of AA the late arrival provided the planes for their early morning departures from LHR.

 

[WWW]

To put this succinctly ever see Red Eye trips heading westbound ?
The westbound flights are a race with the sun - - -
Only the Concorde was able to keep up.
Eastbound flights are a hurry up to tomorrow - crossing the Pacific fly again another day (date line).

The EB has two 7's and two 8's running almost all the time.

 

[railiner]

To put this succinctly ever see Red Eye trips heading westbound ?
The westbound flights are a race with the sun - - -

The last westbound red-eye I flew, was Northwest #245, back in around 1969...
It departed JFK around midnight, stopped for about an hour each, at Detroit, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis, before ending in Seattle, around dawn. The Boeing 707 carried only about two dozen passengers, but was brimming with US Mail...

 

[railiner]

I forgot about the Cathay Pacific overnight flight on a 747 I flew from Hong Kong to London in around 2000...

 

[B757Guy]

Back when I was on the 75/76, my airline operated a day flight to London from the east coast. It was fantastic, as it gave me an entire rested day to sightsee, before flying home.

 

[Willbridge]

Back when I was on the 75/76, my airline operated a day flight to London from the east coast. It was fantastic, as it gave me an entire rested day to sightsee, before flying home.

In 1969 I was flown from McGuire AFB to Rhein/Main on an all-day Saturday flight. The crew and C-141 were provided by a New Jersey USAF Reserve unit. It was a good flight, other than the ten-abreast seating. The crew would have the night in Frankfurt, then back to New Jersey, then back to work in their civilian jobs. At that time I looked up civilian flights and I only found a single PAA daylight flight, JFK to LHR.

 

[railiner]

In 1969 I was flown from McGuire AFB to Rhein/Main on an all-day Saturday flight. The crew and C-141 were provided by a New Jersey USAF Reserve unit. It was a good flight, other than the ten-abreast seating. The crew would have the night in Frankfurt, then back to New Jersey, then back to work in their civilian jobs. At that time I looked up civilian flights and I only found a single PAA daylight flight, JFK to LHR.

Egads! 10 abreast in a Starlifter?

 

[Asher]

Back in the 50s I used to look forward getting the sports page left behind by passengers on the arriving morning flights. DC7, non stop from New York. It was the only way to get current MLB news during the World Series.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Egads! 10 abreast in a Starlifter?

Reminds me of the Laker Flights to London from New York back in the "Cattle Car Flight" Days!!

 

[Willbridge]

Egads! 10 abreast in a Starlifter?

Yes. And I had a "window" seat. I knew what the pilot was doing because the cables next to me would move back and forth. The S.S. United States was also used for military transfers but mainly for senior people. My dream was to finagle my trip home on that ship, but that operation ended during my time in Germany. Instead I came home on a Pan Am 747 that had a humidity problem.

 

[Bob Dylan]

American Airlines has announced they will start a Miami-New York Flight using the 737-MAXX.

 

[jiml]

American Airlines has announced they will start a Miami-New York Flight using the 737-MAXX.

I saw that. It will be interesting to see if they eventually "hide it" in the schedule. They have said they won't in the short term and that it's a test of the public's willingness to book the model, but how long will it be before it's just another 737 in their fleet? They have well over 300 of various types. More importantly, if they need to use one to replace a bad-ordered A320 or other model, do they make an announcement and give people the option to change flights when they have connections or some place they have to be? It's going to be interesting and this is only the first airline to announce. Southwest and both Canadian carriers have a pile of them.

 

[Dakota 400]

American Airlines has announced they will start a Miami-New York Flight using the 737-MAXX.

The FAA has yet to certify the plane.

 

[jiml]

The FAA has yet to certify the plane.

That's why this is such a surprise. AA makes it sound like approval is anticipated shortly.

 

[Dakota 400]

That's why this is such a surprise. AA makes it sound like approval is anticipated shortly.

Could be. Or wishful thinking on the part of AA?

 

[jiml]

The proposed test is a one-week period starting December 29, but it "could be extended" according to the airline.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It could also be a ploy to push the FAA to move faster. From what I've seen neither the manufacturer or regulator have accepted full responsibility for their roles in undermining the testing and certification process, ignoring whistle blower warnings, and refusing to act until a second plane had crashed and every other major regulator had already banned the aircraft from revenue service. The FAA has shown that it is open to being manipulated by business interests over consumer safety and would prefer to lead from behind. I would imagine AA knows better than us how far the FAA can be pushed before balking. The real question is how quickly foreign regulators will certify the "new and improved" 73M.

 

[jiml]

Interesting perspective: