Live Railcam catches shooting at Tucson station

[basketmaker]

Yes, I have seen the 1974 film and the 2009 film (have not read the 1973 book nor seen the 1998 film) I have seen also Star Trek and Star Wars ... doesn't make space travel real or common

It should be noted - The Taking Of Pelham 123 is actually a fictional event described in the '73 book The Taking Of Pelham One Two Three by Morton Freegood who was at the time writing by the pen name John Godey.

One of the reasons people travel by train is the ease of boarding and to avoid the security checks at most airports. This shooting was an extremely rare event.

I actually preferred the original with Walter Matthau. Saw that a few times in the theater I worked at. And fully agree on avoiding security checks at the airport. And that is after growing up and working in an airport. Hate flying commercial!

 

[basketmaker]

But the whole airport screening thing started because of hijackings.
https://www.nap.edu/read/5116/chapter/3

The airline I worked for (Naples Airlines-PBA) was the first American carrier to be hijacked to Cuba shortly before I started. Single pilot (Jimmy Vach) and one man and his young daughter in a Piper Cherokee Six. The flight was from Miami to Naples, FL. He told me they took off and the guy stuck a chrome plated .45 in his ribs and said take them to Havana. He said no problem. Told me the Cubans were extremely friendly and nice to him. Brought a burger and fries and then said go home.

 

[basketmaker]

PREACH!!

Not necessarily Amtrak employees. I was profiled and searched between Reno and Truckee on the CZ. The agents advised that it is triggered by several factors such as when booked, length of trip, origin and destination. This is done by Amtrak, NCIS and DEA's computer systems. Agents were extremely courteous and respectful. The agents boarded and ultimately found me in the Lounge and followed me to my Sleeper and searched my belongings. They apologized for the inconvenience and said no problem whatsoever and thanked them.

 

[Rasputin]

Link to an item about the 1977 Dutch train hijacking (some of us with long memories remember this stuff):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Dutch_train_hijacking

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Friends of the Sunset Limited

Kevin Schillinger · 4m ·

Resumption of Train 2 after the incident yesterday.
Train 2‘s equipment will deadhead to San Antonio without passengers. The Eagle section will be left in Tucson for matters that need not be discussed. Passengers that were housed in Tucson will be re-accommodated onboard train 2(6) with extra capacity added. Train 1 will originate in San Antonio on the early hours of 10/7. Bussing will be provided to those on Train 1 from New Orleans through Houston where they will board the equipment. For those wondering about the thru cars to Chicago, the Eagle picked up the spare Coach and Sleeper this morning in San Antonio that are kept on hand for disruptions like this. Equipment will balance out Thursday.
We potentially may see a pre-2005 Sunset consist (2 Sleepers and 3 Coaches) out of Los Angeles for the first time in over a decade on Wednesday night! Overall a great response by Amtrak under the circumstances!

@Cal

 

[BCL]

Not sure if we'll ever go to invasive security such as that at airports.

I've traveled around the world where we were subjected to X-ray machines, possible search, and metal detectors in order to get into a bus station or a train station.

 

[basketmaker]

Not sure if we'll ever go to invasive security such as that at airports.

I've traveled around the world where we were subjected to X-ray machines, possible search, and metal detectors in order to get into a bus station or a train station.

Very true but Amtrak has hundreds of stations or stop that are nothing more than a bus bench in the middle of nowhere. Or an old vintage station building that is no longer in use. This also doesn't take into account where trains stop for service and many passengers step off to stretch their legs or smoke. Like Tucson. Places like Denver Union Station where the platforms are open to the public. It can be accessed from several areas. For x-ray or metal detectors they would have to be funneled through one or two locations and for commuters/local transit that would be a nightmare.

 

[BGW 1]

I’ve seen the TSA twice riding Amtrak 1st time they were packing up as I arrived 2nd time all they did was swab the handle/zipper tabs of suitcases and put swab in a machine and said have a nice day.

By swabbing the handle/zipper taps they were looking to see if people had handled bad stuff you know the kind of very bad stuff that goes …

Note during this whole procedure kept my boots on and my change in my pocket, not like at an airport.

 

[NSC1109]

This isn’t the first shooting on Amtrak station property or a train and sadly it won’t be the last. There was a Conductor who was shot in Naperville a few years ago. I believe he recovered and returned to the job. A few months ago a man inbound from California ended up getting wasted by Amtrak PD right on the platform at CUS. Pulled a gun and started shooting when he saw the officers moving towards him. No one was injured there either other than the perp.

 

[Ryan]

Come on, that's a fictional movie. I don't think such a thing has actually happened in real life.

PTC called and said that it’s far less possible in the future.

 

[Rover]

No, you can't hijack a train. But it seems you can shoot people on them. I didn't say I knew the technical aspects of scanning before boarding. Just that it would ease my mind if the did.

People can be shot on a city bus, or on a city lightrail too. Where do you draw the line for safety?

Marijuana found on train before fatal shooting in Tucson

https://www.kold.com/2021/10/05/marijuana-found-train-before-fatal-shooting-tucson/
Tucson Police Chief Chris Magnus said members of the Pima County Counter Narcotics Alliance boarded the train to do a check for money, drugs and firearms. The agents, who were following up on a tip, had been provided a list of names, and both Mathis and D.T. were on that list.

An agent said he saw Mathis get up and move several bags further away from himself. When asked about them, Mathis allegedly denied they were his. Agents said the bags were searched and more than five pounds of marijuana and 50 3.5-gram bags of edibles were found.

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I don't know what to think about all of this. Pot is legal in some states.

 

[Cal]

Just my opinion here. They scan passengers before you board a plane for weapons and sharp items before you board a plane right? Why not before you board a train? A little more time getting on board would not bother me. Any thing can be brought on Amtrak, as was what just happened. Safety is getting less and less these days. They can scan me any time before I board a train. Bring back passenger peace of mind and the Amtrak police that are there to protect us please!

Well there goes one of the biggest benefits to rail travel. How is that supposed to work at stations such as Fullerton where it has multiple Amtrak lines and multiple commuter lines? In addition to a lot of entrances to the platform. It would be a nightmare.

 

[PaTrainFan]

People can be shot on a city bus, or on a city lightrail too. Where do you draw the line for safety?

Marijuana found on train before fatal shooting in Tucson

https://www.kold.com/2021/10/05/marijuana-found-train-before-fatal-shooting-tucson/
Tucson Police Chief Chris Magnus said members of the Pima County Counter Narcotics Alliance boarded the train to do a check for money, drugs and firearms. The agents, who were following up on a tip, had been provided a list of names, and both Mathis and D.T. were on that list.

An agent said he saw Mathis get up and move several bags further away from himself. When asked about them, Mathis allegedly denied they were his. Agents said the bags were searched and more than five pounds of marijuana and 50 3.5-gram bags of edibles were found.

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I don't know what to think about all of this. Pot is legal in some states.

All for a few pounds of pot. I don't smoke it and don't advocate for it but it is not worth the incredible amount of money and interdiction effort that this country's law enforcement invests in stopping something that can't be stopped, or even slowed to a meaningful degree.

 

[Cal]

@Cal

Dang. I'd love to see that longer consist, but it's a tad too far away.

 

[basketmaker]

People can be shot on a city bus, or on a city lightrail too. Where do you draw the line for safety?

Marijuana found on train before fatal shooting in Tucson

https://www.kold.com/2021/10/05/marijuana-found-train-before-fatal-shooting-tucson/
Tucson Police Chief Chris Magnus said members of the Pima County Counter Narcotics Alliance boarded the train to do a check for money, drugs and firearms. The agents, who were following up on a tip, had been provided a list of names, and both Mathis and D.T. were on that list.

An agent said he saw Mathis get up and move several bags further away from himself. When asked about them, Mathis allegedly denied they were his. Agents said the bags were searched and more than five pounds of marijuana and 50 3.5-gram bags of edibles were found.

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I don't know what to think about all of this. Pot is legal in some states.

It is legal in many states including here in Colorado (both medicinal and recreational use). But not 5# of green and 50 bags of Gummis. The guy was a dealer and got what he deserved. Shame that the agent lost his life due to the scum's illegal activity.

You take your life in your hands on Colorado roads! From MADD.org "Since recreational marijuana was legalized, marijuana related traffic deaths increased 151 percent while all Colorado traffic deaths increased 35 percent."

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Seem the Texas Eagle shooting of a passenger by Narcotic Squad in Dallas has been forgotten.

 

[Eric in East County]

Given that one of the reasons that a lot of people prefer trains over planes is the lack of TSA security theater, I don't think there would be a great groundswell of desire to implement said security theater on Amtrak.

This is the second time this year that an armed passenger caused a dangerous incident at the train or station due to police intervention. Maybe the cops should leave these people alone if they're not causing any trouble, it might be safer for everybody involved. Was the potential to interdict a small amount of drugs or some possible drug-related cash worth the death of the DEA agent?

My “take away” from this thread is that Amtrak trains are being used to transport illicit drugs by people who are armed and therefore should be considered dangerous.

Using various tools at their disposal, DEA agents and Amtrak police are attempting to identify and then arrest those individuals transporting illicit drugs – either on board a train or at a station - with a minimum of risk to themselves and other passengers.

It is not feasible to run TSA-type checks at every station to prevent people from bringing guns onto a train.

Although we can’t be sure of the total amount of illicit drugs that are being transported on Amtrak trains, it stands to reason that it would be higher if the DEA and Amtrak police were ordered to cease their efforts in identifying and arresting the people who are transporting those illicit drugs.

IMHO having even more people with guns transporting illicit drugs on Amtrak trains poses an even greater risk to passengers. (Those involved in the illicit drug trade have been known to steal drugs and money from each other, kill their rivals over territorial disputes, show little regard for the innocent people who inadvertently get caught up in their disputes, etc.)

I would feel much safer having DEA and Amtrak Police on board my trains doing their duty than to have these trains being used by armed drug runners who know the law won't bother them.

 

[basketmaker]

My “take away” from this thread is that Amtrak trains are being used to transport illicit drugs by people who are armed and therefore should be considered dangerous.

Using various tools at their disposal, DEA agents and Amtrak police are attempting to identify and then arrest those individuals transporting illicit drugs – either on board a train or at a station - with a minimum of risk to themselves and other passengers.

It is not feasible to run TSA-type checks at every station to prevent people from bringing guns onto a train.

Although we can’t be sure of the total amount of illicit drugs that are being transported on Amtrak trains, it stands to reason that it would be higher if the DEA and Amtrak police were ordered to cease their efforts in identifying and arresting the people who are transporting those illicit drugs.

IMHO having even more people with guns transporting illicit drugs on Amtrak trains poses an even greater risk to passengers. (Those involved in the illicit drug trade have been known to steal drugs and money from each other, kill their rivals over territorial disputes, show little regard for the innocent people who inadvertently get caught up in their disputes, etc.)

I would feel much safer having DEA and Amtrak Police on board my trains doing their duty than to have these trains being used by armed drug runners who know the law won't bother them.

Hallelujah!

 

[Ryan]

with a minimum of risk to themselves and other passengers

The two dead bodies in Tucson seem to argue otherwise, unless you can show some people killed by “armed drug runners” in incidents not involving the police.

 

[BCL]

Very true but Amtrak has hundreds of stations or stop that are nothing more than a bus bench in the middle of nowhere. Or an old vintage station building that is no longer in use. This also doesn't take into account where trains stop for service and many passengers step off to stretch their legs or smoke. Like Tucson. Places like Denver Union Station where the platforms are open to the public. It can be accessed from several areas. For x-ray or metal detectors they would have to be funneled through one or two locations and for commuters/local transit that would be a nightmare.

When I rode on trains in Asia, they simply didn't have stations like that with no staffing. But then again they spent a lot of money on their rail infrastructure and on operations. Not the bus stations, but the rail stations were typically elevated so that it almost always required entering a building and going upstairs to the train platforms. Also a lot of barriers so one being pushed or jumping in front of a train was far less likely to happen than in the US. The other issue was a complete lack of disabled access. Just stairs and not even escalators in many places. I don't know where they came from or if it was even legal, but it was impressive paying someone the equivalent of $1.50 to carry about 120 lbs in two full-sized pieces and one carry-on up a flight of stairs. And she looked to be about 4'10" and 90s lbs.

I do look at how some stations are set up, and it would certainly be possible to set up fencing and other things.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

As someone who has interacted with the DEA on a train, there tactics are not appropriated. The whole soft contact approach is fine, into you start screaming at the suspect those soft contact questions. Also the cutting Amtrak Police out of the loop, and paying finder fees to a Amtrak employee is just cheap dirt money grabbing tactics. There a right way to enforce the law, and there a bully way to do so.

This thread is about to go nuclear and this is my last post on this event.

 

[PaTrainFan]

The two dead bodies in Tucson seem to argue otherwise, unless you can show some people killed by “armed drug runners” in incidents not involving the police.

Right, not to mention the many passengers who were traumatized at witnessing the ordeal and many more who were inconvenienced. For marijuana, not crystal meth or heroin.

 

[basketmaker]

As someone who has interacted with the DEA on a train, there tactics are not appropriated. The whole soft contact approach is fine, into you start screaming at the suspect those soft contact questions. Also the cutting Amtrak Police out of the loop, and paying finder fees to a Amtrak employee is just cheap dirt money grabbing tactics. There a right way to enforce the law, and there a bully way to do so.

This thread is about to go nuclear and this is my last post on this event.

These interdiction tactics are common by both federal and local law enforcement. And not necessarily Amtrak employees dropping a dime. I was profiled and searched (physical and baggage) between Reno and Truckee on the CZ. The agents advised that it is triggered by several factors such as when booked, length of trip, origin and destination. This is done by Amtrak, NCIS and DEA's computer systems algorithm. A contact list or if you wanna call a "hit lit" is generated and sent ahead to which ever location/jurisdiction/team that will conduct the operation. And they are very professional and respectful.

 

[basketmaker]

The two dead bodies in Tucson seem to argue otherwise, unless you can show some people killed by “armed drug runners” in incidents not involving the police.

I'm sure there are some but most would be just considered everyday murders. But you do hear about "drug deal gone bad" occasionally.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I was profiled and searched between Reno and Truckee on the CZ. The agents advised that it is triggered by several factors such as when booked, length of trip, origin and destination. This is done by Amtrak, NCIS and DEA's computer systems. Agents were extremely courteous and respectful. The agents boarded and ultimately found me in the Lounge and followed me to my Sleeper and searched my belongings. They apologized for the inconvenience and said no problem whatsoever and thanked them.

I do not consider fishing expeditions to be courteous or respectful but maybe that's just me. Agents are free to say anything with no expectation of honesty or transparency so I'd take whatever you were told with a grain of salt.

It is legal in many states including here in Colorado (both medicinal and recreational use). But not 5# of green and 50 bags of Gummis. The guy was a dealer and got what he deserved. Shame that the agent lost his life due to the scum's illegal activity.

Purchasing and possessing alcohol is legal, but by this logic there would be a point past which one more bottle or can is not only illegal but punishable by death. Such reasoning borders on incomprehensibility.