Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement discussion (2022 - 2024Q1)

[cocojacoby]

Yes it took until 2019 and a number of crash tests to show modern euro stock is as safe if not safer than the US standard of build everything to be a box which can not flex or give. Crash energy management while studied for decades took a number of metrolink crashes for it to be

Interesting read. Maybe a Rotem car variation could be the next Superliner.

 

[GDRRiley]

Interesting read. Maybe a Rotem car variation could be the next Superliner.

Rotem has left the NA market, unless they spun up a plan to do just this batch
Siemens, Stadler in my view are the front runners with CAF and Alstom behind then given their recent issues.

 

[cocojacoby]

Rotem has left the NA market, unless they spun up a plan to do just this batch
Siemens, Stadler in my view are the front runners with CAF and Alstom behind then given their recent issues.

They are making cars for Boston right now.

 

[Mailliw]

Alstom's bid will probably be something more along the lines of the trains they're building for Mexico's Tren Maya than the TGV.

https://www.alstom.com/mayan-train-project

 

[GDRRiley]

They are making cars for Boston right now.

Those are made in South Korea and imported because they no longer have a US plant which would not work for a federally funded program

Alstom's bid will probably be something more along the lines of the trains they're building for Mexico's Tren Maya than the TGV.

if the bid a bi level we could see ones like VRE and metra are getting

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Coradia multilevel should be interesting if a bi level order is on the table. Amtrak just happens to be doing business with Alstom.

 

[cocojacoby]

So I guess we need to get that list of 10 interested manufacturers.

 

[jis]

While the Coredia Multilevel as ordered by Metra is a Commuter Car, the Coredia Duplex Platform that it is based off of can be used to create a Multi Level LD Car. Note though that the current platform has gangways at the 4' level, not that that could not be changed. but that would be a significantly new car.

Incidentally, the Coredia platform is derived from the same LHB platform that Alstom licensed to Indian Railways, and essentially all new passenger stock on Indian Railways is based on that core platform, including the articulated Vande Bharat EMU sets discussed in another thread on AU. They manufacture some 5000 to 6000 cars per year these days.

 

[Antibuff]

One car design that I would like to see is a true cafe-lounge car with a food prep and serving area that would have one end enclosed and a proper arrangement of grill, convection and microwave ovens for better tray meal offerings. This type of car would have the same utility and flexibility of service like the ex-CN cafe-lounge cars that VIA operated. It could cover anything from snack-beverage service with one LSA or secondary food service with a crew of 2 or 3, that would serve trains like the Carolinian or the Pennsylvanian.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

One car design that I would like to see is a true cafe-lounge car with a food prep and serving area that would have one end enclosed and a proper arrangement of grill, convection and microwave ovens for better tray meal offerings. This type of car would have the same utility and flexibility of service like the ex-CN cafe-lounge cars that VIA operated. It could cover anything from snack-beverage service with one LSA or secondary food service with a crew of 2 or 3, that would serve trains like the Carolinian or the Pennsylvanian.

The original Talgo-Cascades “Bistro” cars were set up like this.

 

[Antibuff]

The original Talgo-Cascades “Bistro” cars were set up like this.

Many thanks. Being from the great "North Coast", I never had the opportunity to personally examine the car's layout.

 

[BarryATL]

Many thanks. Being from the great "North Coast", I never had the opportunity to personally examine the car's layout.

My husband is paraplegic and uses a chair. One of my great joys was taking him on the Talgo trains so he could experience first class and the café car. We are already planning an August trip to Orlando to ride the fully accessible Brightline train from Orlando to Miami.

I am hoping that as Amtrak moves to order new LD train stock we will see some of the accessibility that is happening on the regional trains.

 

[west point]

We are making assumptions that may or may not happen. Lets just not close off anything for the future., The amount of replacement LD Equipment may be too much or political backstabbing might cut off the deliveries. Or, demand for seats may be too little or too much ??

Then the FRA might really try to serve the USA with more trains. The only way IMO for that to happen is all the present equipment Amfleets, Horizons, & Super liners' will need refurbishment to be used?? This poster will not even guess.

 

[Andrew]

So I guess we need to get that list of 10 interested manufacturers.

Siemens just announced a second US train factory in North Carolina.

I wonder if this will help eventually convince Amtrak to select Siemens for their Superliner replacement rolling stock.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

unless Siemens is lowest bidder with best guarantee , that is not a given .

 

[Lcon]

Before even the LD replacement Siemens certainly has existing demand to justify a second manufacturing plant I mean Amtrak Midwest, Amtrak North East Airo train sets, Amtrak San Joaquins, Ontario northlands,Via Rail Venture and Chargers, Brightline’s existing service and pending expansions In Florida. All slated to receive and use a combination of Siemens mobility SC 44/SC42 Charger locomotives in either diesel or diesel electric with Venture cars. A quick and dirty wiki check says they have orders or over 800 Venture coaches. Some of that is already in service some in construction and some in final but a lot is likely pending.
Farther a safe bet that more orders are coming in the future as Amtrak sets to retire the Genesis locomotives and it’s single level Amfleet/Metroliner, Horizon coaches with the Charger and Venture combination. This makes Siemens the primer Non EMU/DMU intercity passanger rail manufacturer in North America. Any Commuter or state lines whom may be looking to replace older rolling stock will have a hard time not considering the same locomotives and or Cars or an A la carte combination including Siemens equipment.
I could stop here and state that based on this Siemens mobility probably has an order ledger dripping with black ink and customers waiting for delivery with a good size back log justification for a new plant.

 

[MARC Rider]

Having just returned from an Auto Train trip, I spent my first night in the upper berth of a Superliner bedroom. Never again, and I routinely use the upper berths of Viewliner roomettes. Once I was in the berth, sleeping was fine, and I wasn't claustrophobic or anything. It was just that the headroom up there is so low that I couldn't contort my body properly to climb down the ladder witout hitting my head on the ceiling. In fact, while I was twisting around trying to get my feet into the ladder, I rolled off. Fortunately, the space is so tight that I didn't fall far, and indeed ended up merely sitting up on the mattress of the lower berth, but I did get a sore wrist and a couple of bruises. My wife told me to sleep int he lower bert, and she just ended up sleeping in the chair. Fortunately, it was about 4 or 5 in the morning, and we were going to wake up at 6 anyway.

So I cast my vote firmly for the any replacement sleeper cars being single level with the headroom similar to that of a Viewliner.

 

[cocojacoby]

Having just returned from an Auto Train trip, I spent my first night in the upper berth of a Superliner bedroom. Never again, and I routinely use the upper berths of Viewliner roomettes. Once I was in the berth, sleeping was fine, and I wasn't claustrophobic or anything. It was just that the headroom up there is so low that I couldn't contort my body properly to climb down the ladder witout hitting my head on the ceiling. In fact, while I was twisting around trying to get my feet into the ladder, I rolled off. Fortunately, the space is so tight that I didn't fall far, and indeed ended up merely sitting up on the mattress of the lower berth, but I did get a sore wrist and a couple of bruises. My wife told me to sleep int he lower bert, and she just ended up sleeping in the chair. Fortunately, it was about 4 or 5 in the morning, and we were going to wake up at 6 anyway.

So I cast my vote firmly for the any replacement sleeper cars being single level with the headroom similar to that of a Viewliner.

Am I correct in assuming that the clearances are even tighter and the claustrophobia even greater in a Roomette upper bunk due to the curvature of the roof?

 

[fdaley]

Am I correct in assuming that the clearances are even tighter and the claustrophobia even greater in a Roomette upper bunk due to the curvature of the roof?

I don't know the exact specs, but in my experience the Superliner bedroom uppers were an unpleasantly tight fit and the roomettes seemed even worse. The bedroom upper is a wider bunk than in the roomette, but it's impossible to sit up in either one, and this requires some contortion to get in or out. I don't recommend them for anyone over 30.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I don't know the exact specs, but in my experience the Superliner bedroom uppers were an unpleasantly tight fit and the roomettes seemed even worse. The bedroom upper is a wider bunk than in the roomette, but it's impossible to sit up in either one, and this requires some contortion to get in or out. I don't recommend them for anyone over 30.

But the bedroom lower bunk is big enuff for two. At least in a Viewliner bedroom, is this not true in Superliners?

 

[fdaley]

But the bedroom lower bunk is big enuff for two. At least in a Viewliner bedroom, is this not true in Superliners?

Yes, you can definitely fit two in the Superliner bedroom lower, if you're not of large stature. You really can't do that in the roomette lower, unless maybe you both lie on your sides and neither one rolls over all night. But I do think the lower bunk in the Superliner roomette is a bit wider than its Viewliner counterpart, and unlike the Viewliner, it doesn't get narrower at the foot end.

I think we did discuss earlier in this thread the need to improve the upper-bunk clearance from the current Superliner configuration. That probably adds to the argument for switching to single-level cars, as MARC Rider suggests.

 

[railiner]

Am I correct in assuming that the clearances are even tighter and the claustrophobia even greater in a Roomette upper bunk due to the curvature of the roof?

The roof curvature would affect the upper level Roomette upper bunks, but not the lower level Roomette upper bunks, which may be marginally roomier as a result…

 

[MARC Rider]

But the bedroom lower bunk is big enuff for two. At least in a Viewliner bedroom, is this not true in Superliners?

Not really, we tried that after I fell out of the upper. It wasn't long before my wide decided she'd rather sleep in the seat. In fact, the large lower bed is a bit of a nuisance, as it makes it hard to move through the room to get to the bathroom. Now if they could design a room with a full queen-sized mattress, that would be a different story.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Not really, we tried that after I fell out of the upper. It wasn't long before my wide decided she'd rather sleep in the seat. In fact, the large lower bed is a bit of a nuisance, as it makes it hard to move through the room to get to the bathroom. Now if they could design a room with a full queen-sized mattress, that would be a different story.

Amtrak could follow the VIA Model on the Canadian and create a "Prestige Class" with a Queen or King Size Bed, but then most riders wouldn't be able to afford the "Premium " Upgrade they would charge!

 

[jis]

Amtrak could follow the VIA Model on the Canadian and create a "Prestige Class" with a Queen or King Size Bed, but then most riders wouldn't be able to afford the "Premium " Upgrade they would charge!

It is also questionable if a taxpayer subsidized outfit should be indulging in such while needs of basic transportation go unmet.