Lower Level Seating

[Philomena Buts]

I had a question about Lower Level Seating and was hoping someone could give me advice. I get motion sickness, so I have to take Dramamine, but after a day on the train even that doesn't help much. So last year when I took my trip from Portland to Chicago I decided to book a lower level seat. I was hoping that since I was sitting on the lower level of the train that there would be less swaying and I would be less sick. Also the seating is down by the restrooms so if I had a problem I wouldn't be going up and down the stairs half the night.

Well I was right, sitting on the lower level verses the upper level was like night and day and I had a terrific trip there and back. My problem is this, on both the east bound Empire Builder and West Bound Empire Builder I had Amtrak train personnel question my motives for wanting a lower level seat. Fortunately the car attendant I dealt with on the East Bound train was also going back to Portland on the West Bound train and he stuck up for me when the conductor tried to bump me to the regular coach seating on the upper level. It seems the conductor wanted as many of the lower seats as possible to use as "overbooked" seating. Funny thing, is there were only three of us down there for most of the trip, so apparently the train wasn't as full as he made it out to be.

What can I do if anything during my upcoming trip on the EB to ensure I do not get "harassed" because of my seating request. I really enjoy taking the train, but I am a little stressed about the seating as I had to "stand my ground" last year in order to keep my reserved Lower Level Seats. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[gswager]

Better tell them that you've medical condition. They cannot discriminated you because the lower level is usually for those who are having weak legs or on wheelchairs.

I am wondering if you've tried going up upper level for like an hour or so in middle of the trip?

 

[AlanB]

If your ticket says Lower Level, then the conductor cannot ask you to move. You booked and paid for that seat. If he/she feels that they are going to be overbooked on the train, then they can always send someone else upstairs.

But the reality is that you booked and paid for a seat on the LL, then you are entitled to sit there unless there is something wrong with the car. And since you do have a medical reason for sitting down there, I would also play up that angle too if confronted by a conductor.

One final thought, conductors change during your trip, so even if you do get one who orders you to move, just change your seat once he/she goes off duty.

 

[Guest]

The lower level used to have a sign in the door window which said "Handicapped". I noticed on the last couple of trips that it is no longer there, but I think people in general usually think of the lower level as the handicapped section.

For myself, I have to use the lower level because I am handicapped and the stairs are next to impossible for me. I'm grateful when an able bodied person goes to the upper level and leaves lower level seating available for the handicapped.

 

[Boxcar]

The lower level used to have a sign in the door window which said "Handicapped".  I noticed on the last couple of trips that it is no longer there, but I think people in general usually think of the lower level as the handicapped section.  
For myself, I have to use the lower level because I am handicapped and the stairs are next to impossible for me.  I'm grateful when an able bodied person goes to the upper level and leaves lower level seating available for the handicapped.

I noticed on my return trip from WAS to Chicago on 6/19, the Capital Limited

(29) stated that lower level coach was sold out as well as the bedrooms.

All that was left was upper coach, business and sleepettes.

 

[Guest]

just FYI, in training we were told (as is true with almost all service-sector jobs in the past couple of decades) that if someone declares him/herself to be "disabled", the staff may NOT inquire as to the exact nature of the disability, only as to ways that they may assist the client - to do otherwise would violate Federal Law (specifically, the Americans with Disabilities Act, or ADA)

 

[Guest_Treckie]

just FYI, in training we were told (as is true with almost all service-sector jobs in the past couple of decades) that if someone declares him/herself to be "disabled", the staff may NOT inquire as to the exact nature of the disability, only as to ways that they may assist the client - to do otherwise would violate Federal Law (specifically, the Americans with Disabilities Act, or ADA)

So if a horse's patoot that has no disablities wanted to ride in lower coach he doesn't even have to limp on board?

Are the fares for lower the same as upper? and if so, is it first come? If so, how come like in another post, the lower seating is sold out? :blink:

 

[Philomena Buts]

On the EB the fares for the lower section are the same as the fares for the upper section. As I stated earlier both times I utilized lower level seating there were only about 2 people down there who were physically handicapped (in a wheelchairs). The rest of the seats were used as "overflow" because they were out of seats on the upper level. I am not physically disabled and would have gladly given up my seat for someone who was. However on the EB it became clear that those lower level seats are used mainly for regular passengers when the upper levels are full. I know that sometimes the Capitol Limited runs without lower level seating, that is probably why it is showing up as "sold out".

My main complaint was that I reserved a lower level seat because of my motion sickness and the conductors on both legs of the trip seemed to want to bump me to an upperlevel seat, even though there were plenty of lower level seats available. I am taking another trip in June and returning in July and have reserved lower level seats for both the east and west bound trips. On the return trip a friend is joining me and I am really hoping they don't try to prevent us from sitting downstairs. If I have to sit on the upper level that will be 3 miserable days of motion sickness I will have to endure.

 

[AlanB]

Philomena,

If you do indeed get a conductor or a car attendant who makes you move to the upper level, when your ticket says "lower level" on it, then make sure that you take down names. And make sure that they know that you are writing down their names.

Other than for safety reasons, they are not allowed to move you from a seating area that you are ticketed for. If you have a cell phone, I would even suggest calling Amtrak customer service at the next stop and reporting them right then and there.

It doesn't matter if the price is the same, more, or less than upper level seating. You paid and were properly ticketed into lower level seating and that is where you are entitled to sit.

 

[Philomena Buts]

Thank You. I will have a cellphone with me. That is a very good idea!

 

[AlanB]

Thank You. I will have a cellphone with me. That is a very good idea!

I just want to be clear here, don't get off the train, or you might get left behind. I simply mentioned waiting for a station, so that you have a better signal for the cell phone.

Above all though, don't argue loudly and rudely with the conductor, as they are still the boss of the train and they do have the power to have you thrown off the train at the next stop.

Just be firm, polite, and persistant in stating that you have a medical condition that requires you to ride on the lower level, that you booked a ticket for the lower level for that reason, and that if he/she insists on moving you that you will be filing a complaint against them. If you want to throw in the idea mentioned above, that it is a handicap, go right ahead.

To some extent in my mind it is, as feeling constantly sick is dibilitating. Yes I know that's not what the ADA really was all about, but I've seen so many people abuse the ADA laws and sometime to the detriment of those who really need it, that I for one believe that you can qualify under the broad conditions set by the ADA. And I rather doubt that you'll be hurting anyone who is truly what most of us would consider to be handicapped.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Ohmygosh, I can't believe that someone actually thinks that the only physically handicapped people are those in wheel chairs! I am physically handicapped. I do not have a wheel chair.

Not only do I have a knee which gives excruciating pain when going up steps, I also have a lung that is so badly scarred that I get very little oxygen and am severely short of breath with little exertion. Not all handicapped people have outward signs (wheelchairs, oxygen tanks, canes, etc.) Please keep that in mind next time you see someone in the handicapped section of a train, or parking in a handicapped spot.

As far as charges for lower level seating, last year when I booked Seattle, the lower level seating was more than upper. I called Amtrak and they wouldn't budge on the price.

 

[AlanB]

As far as charges for lower level seating, last year when I booked Seattle, the lower level seating was more than upper. I called Amtrak and they wouldn't budge on the price.

Lower level seats, just like upper level seats and bedrooms, is sold on demmand pricing. As the seats get sold, the price goes up. They do however, typically start at the same price as upper level seats when the train first goes on sale.

 

[Philomena Buts]

I'm sorry if I offended you EverydayMatters. I realize that many people have many different physical handicaps in varying degrees that do not require one to be in a wheelchair. And when I mentioned Physically Handicapped in a previous post I was only referring to the only two people in the seating section that had actual physical disabilities. Both ladies were elderly and had had strokes which left them partially paralyzed. Since our car attendant didn't come downstairs very often, myself and the other passengers in the area would take turns helping the ladies to the restroom. And would also go and get them items from the snackbar when they needed something. They were both very nice ladies and very grateful for the help.

On my return trip there was just a young mother and her daughter and myself in the lower level until we got to Minneapolis. Then a middleaged woman and her two young daughters joined us. The woman had also had a stroke and used one of those motorized scooters. She was not nice like the other ladies had been and was very demanding of the car attendant. When her and the other lady realized the only electrical outlet in the car was at my seat I knew I was in for it. I didn't put up a fight when they wanted to take turns using the outlet (one of them just happened to have an extension cord or two) for their DVD players. They hogged that outlet the WHOLE trip.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Sorry you had a bad experience with a handicapped person, Philomena.

I had a really bad experience with a handicapped lady on the way to D.C. She yelled at a passenger who tried to help her by giving her half of her own sandwich. She told the other passenger that that wasn't enough food! Well, you just have to figure that a person like that is a few bricks short of a load and try to avoid them.

I've sat in the seat with the outlet also and had an extension cord across my lap from a lady across the isle. I feel that's pretty inconsiderate and I always charge up my phone and camera before I leave home.

I guess the thing to be learned out of all this is to treat other passengers and equipment (see the posts about condition of restrooms) the way you'd like to be treated.

 

[Guest_JAChooChoo]

First, my qualification: Having been born at an early age, I've been on crutches or a wheelchair all my life. In my case, the issue is obvious.

 

Being "handicapped" can affect a personality, especially for those who don't have my advantage of years of experience. Some adapt well, some rebel - kinda like the rest of mankind.

 

As an example, flying, I can't go thru the security gates, I get a patdown and hand-held scanner check. Some "handicapped" people find this to be discriminatory; on the other hand, I roll up with a smile and "take me, I'm your's!" Oh, and I can't count the times when the flight attendant would stow my crutches in the overhead, and I'd say "Don't let me leave without them" LOL

 

I say all this to show that my attitude is to enjoy being me, and to make it easier on others who help.

 

My suggestion for a person with a "hidden" problem, carry a note from your doctor. Yes I know thats not politically correct, but it will win friends and respect.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I'll end this right now. If you are ticketed for lower level, you are to be seated in lower level, period! The only exceptions are due to a safety reason with the train or if the lower level seating is already booked with lower level ticketed passengers. If that's the case then you should be seated on the lower level at the earliest point a lower level passenger vacates the seat or disembarks the train. If the train attendant and conductor doesn't know this, then they are creating a potential BIG problem.

Now I can already see the scenario here with the first poster's position of having to stand their ground. The conductor, however, was smart to keep that lower level aside for overbooking puposes. But he/she cannot deny you the lower level seat if one states they have a handicap which makes it necessary to sit in the lower level much less if the passenger's ticket states "lower level!" But keeping that lower level clear and filling up the regular level coach seats is definitely a good idea. That way those seats area available for those passengers who need the lower level.

I have very little experience with the Superliners, but it is pretty much the same scenario as with our "accessible seat" situation here on the single level equipment. Some of our passengers are issued a ticket which states "accessible seat" only. Others are simply listed in the special request area of the manifest. Well, I have no choice but to put them in the said seat right away if available or at earliest oprotunity. I can even sometimes "make one" if the few we have are already occupied. OBS...