LSL Michigan Reroute Rumors & Speculation

[jis]

Here you go ...



Looks like it got fixed. For a period the first choice was a single seat ride arriving NLS at 5:55am, same as the scheduled arrival at TOL.

 

[Palmetto]

So, how are people seeing two different things? Odd.

The thought also occurs to me that Amtrak would just as soon see this operation fail, since there hasn't been a peep out of them on it.

 

[jis]

The full web site is showing this obviously screwed up thing. The mobile web page is not showing this. Someone at Amtrak is playing around with the full web site. Possibly the mobile website is batch updated from time to time, and the screwed up stuff on the full eyesore has not been pushed to the mobile site yet. And hopefully won't be pushed until it is fixed.

 

[A Voice]

What's 'mixed-up' about the full website? I'm seeing what you posted above; Each option requires a Thruway bus or going via Chicago.

Am I missing something obvious? :unsure:

 

[jis]

Oh I did not notice. It got fixed. For a period it was showing for BUF to NLS a one seat ride on the LSL arriving at 5:55am, the same arrival time as in TOL, and an absurdly high fare, as the first choice.

I suppose I should have looked at it more closely this time around. Sorry about that.

 

[A Voice]

Oh I did not notice. It got fixed. For a period it was showing for BUF to NLS a one seat ride on the LSL arriving at 5:55am, the same arrival time as in TOL, and an absurdly high fare, as the first choice.

I suppose I should have looked at it more closely this time around. Sorry about that.

Not a problem. Just thought I was losing what's left of my mind...

What's interesting is that something is indeed happening, and what the website temporarily showed has basically confirmed that.

 

[west point]

It may be that there is a beta program out there to be initiated sometime. there may have been a cross leak of the Beta program onto the web site that was redacted ?

 

[TylerP42]

I searched about 2 minutes after Jis posted that. Only saw the TOL or CHI connections.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Im very disappointed with this trial, it looks like its been set up to fail with this westbound timetable. The could have very easily used the Train No 283 slot out of New York up to Buffalo, if a slot could have been found between Buffalo and Toledo to follow this could have had the train arriving Chicago at virtually the same time as now.

As it stands this now makes the LSL useless for connections to Western Trains and forces all transcontintel travellers from NY to use the 3weekly Cardinal or change in Washington in order to stand even a chance of making same day connections.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Agreed, there really isn't much reason not to just move the LSL westbound up to ensure an arrival into CHI around the same time as now. Since the LSL leaves NYP/BOS before 5pm, I don't see it that bad if you have to leave earlier. Is leaving at 1-2pm really that worse than leaving at 3:40?

 

[Palmetto]

Has Amtrak even announced this yet?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Nothing from Amtrak.

 

[Ryan]

But somehow it's already a failure in the mind of armchair railroaders everywhere.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Has Amtrak even announced this yet?

Nothing from Amtrak.

But somehow it's already a failure in the mind of armchair railroaders everywhere.

In the views of armchair railroaders, any change for which anyone loses (is inconvenienced) usually means it shouldn't be done no matter how many more people gain. They'd rather everything stay the way it is rather than possibly one change for which many people in Michigan gain and a few hundred in Bryan, OH lose. Can you make changes to add ridership without taking away from anyone else? Got any money? Without an increase in money, for someone to gain someone has to lose.

On the record, I am not in favor of having the LSL arrive in CHI later to jeopardize the western connections. But I have no problem with the LSL leaving NYP/BOS earlier to gain ridership in Michigan and have no problem with Bryan, South Bend, and Elkhart losing one of their trains (put Bryan on the CL) so Michigan can gain a direct train to the East Coast (assuming you can't just start a third daily train from Chicago to the NEC to accommodate Michigan and let South Bend keep the two they have).

 

[Ryan]

In the views of armchair railroaders, any change for which anyone loses (is inconvenienced) usually means it shouldn't be done no matter how many more people gain. They'd rather everything stay the way it is rather than possibly one change for which many people in Michigan gain and a few hundred in Bryan, OH lose.

I'm pretty sure that nobody is actually making this argument.

 

[neroden]

But somehow it's already a failure in the mind of armchair railroaders everywhere.

Well, that 'leaked' schedule is a failure. The LSL really should be moved up to depart earlier westbound *anyway*. It's not convenient to get onboard at 9:30 PM at Syracuse.

It's also much too tight a connection given the poor train handling on NS and CSX.

If the LSL misconnects to the CZ on October 12th or 13th, there are going to be an awful lot of very annoyed NARP members heading to the meeting in Denver...

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I know you guys know a whole lot more than me about trains, etc., but I do believe it takes a little, or maybe a lot, of work to change schedules. They have to find slots that are open both on the NEC (though I guess the LSL doesn't travel on the NEC) and on the freight tracks.

 

[neroden]

I know you guys know a whole lot more than me about trains, etc., but I do believe it takes a little, or maybe a lot, of work to change schedules. They have to find slots that are open both on the NEC (though I guess the LSL doesn't travel on the NEC) and on the freight tracks.

Midday is the easiest time to get a slot out of Penn Station and a slot on Metro-North and a slot out of Boston on the MBTA. All of these could be knocked back an hour or two with no trouble at all.

Any changes already require talking to NS.

Certainly there would be some serious talking to CSX to get an earlier westbound slot from Schenectady to Cleveland, and Worcester to Albany. They need one anyway.

This is set up to fail, which makes it pointless. It's not worth running a "test run" until either (a) they can get a decent running speed from Dearborn to Toledo, or (b) they can move the westbound LSL back, or © they can get the freights to actually deliver the train on time, any of which would give a better window of time to connect at Chicago.

 

[Ryan]

But somehow it's already a failure in the mind of armchair railroaders everywhere.

Well, that 'leaked' schedule is a failure.

That was kind of my point. If the leaked schedule is made real, then throw stones.

But until we have nothing official, we have... nothing...

 

[acelafan]

Regarding that new schedule:

-- NS and CSX better not delay the train, because the connections to the western trains are quite tight. Now that Amtrakdelays is down permanently, it's impossible to easily find out how often it would have misconnected. Anything over 1 1/2 hours breaks the Texas Eagle connection. The LSL was 3 hours late yesterday, apparently thanks to CSX. Most of the delays lately are in the vicinity of Buffalo.

You can research likely missed connections at this link. Enter the arriving train #, connecting train #, and the station of interest.

Other train arrival/departure stats can be found here.

 

[TylerP42]

But somehow it's already a failure in the mind of armchair railroaders everywhere.

Well, that 'leaked' schedule is a failure. The LSL really should be moved up to depart earlier westbound *anyway*. It's not convenient to get onboard at 9:30 PM at Syracuse.
It's also much too tight a connection given the poor train handling on NS and CSX.

If the LSL misconnects to the CZ on October 12th or 13th, there are going to be an awful lot of very annoyed NARP members heading to the meeting in Denver...

Not convenient to get on the train at 9pm? I'd take that over 11:49pm, 2:50am, 5:08am, and 5:55am that I have to deal with in Toledo (which is the busiest station in Ohio)

 

[jis]

Frankly I don't think the schedule of the LSL is determined by its calling time at SYR. It is primarily driven by slot consideration and arrival and departure times at New York and Boston, and timing in Chicago for reliable connectivity to/from the west. Incidentally if SYR gets a better time so be it.

 

[Palmetto]

Wouldn't you say, though, that slots are meaningless at the conclusion of 1000 + mile run where being on time and in the slot is a rare occurence? Even 5 minutes delay in the NYC area can be problematic for Amtrak, as in arriving at CP216 out of the slot and following a New Haven Line train.

 

[jis]

It is not a question of 5 minute slot for the LD trains. It is a question of whether one is scheduled with a high likelihood of interfering into what is known as the Commission Hour at New York Penn Station or not. I am sure there is a similar span of a couple of hours each weekday morning and evening at Chicago Union Station too. As long as the LD trains stay away from those and are scheduled with a low probability of spilling into those, things should be fine. One feature of the rush hour is that trains off schedule that appear at those hours tend to get the lowest priority to enter the congested area and are likely to be parked in a siding until an opportunity arises to fit them into the flow.

 

[Rincewind]

I booked a cross country trip beginning Oct.5th from New York to San Francisco with the LSL. I got a strange Email from Amtrak yesterday:

Our records indicate that your upcoming travel on reservation "xyz" has been impacted by one or more schedule changes with the following details:

You will depart on Amtrak train number 5005 from Emeryville,California on Saturday October 8 at 4:25PM and arrive in San Francisco,California on Saturday October 8 at 5:35PM.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
You will depart on Amtrak number from on at : and arrive in on at :.
We apologize for any inconvenience. To speak to an Amtrak representative about alternate travel options call us at 877-231-9448 at your earliest convenience. Thank you for being a valued Amtrak customer.

Yes, that is everything. Was this an attempt to inform me about the changes? Is there an official schedule anywhere, besides the one a few pages before? How does Amtrak handle an alternative booking? I bought my ticket back in may as a saver fare but I really want a few hours in Chicago, first to be sure to catch the connecting train even and second to go for a walk an buy fresh food for the trip (coach). Do I have to pay for a change to the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Limited?