More Greyhound cutbacks and comparison with airlines

[Willbridge]

So back on the subject of Greyhound and Flixbus and their integration, yesterday I was taking the Flixbus to and from Portland. I get to the boarding point (just outside of Union Station) at 7:20 PM...and see people waiting. I ask, and they say that there bus is leaving at 7:25...my ticket says 8! And some of them are also going to Redding and Sacramento.
After some time, I find out that the 7:25 PM Greyhound is now a Flixbus, but it is a long distance Flixbus. When it arrives, it has the Flixbus scheme and the like.
So some of the Greyhound routes are now Flixbus routes, and some of them aren't. Also, in this case, I think this Flixbus now stops in Salem, (I heard someone asking about that), but not at the Greyhound station, just at the boarding point for Flixbus.
Maybe this integration is leading somewhere, but I can't make heads or tails of it.

Greyhound went back to one trip a day between PDX and SAC. You're right that Flix is stopping their new PDX<>SAC run in Salem, on the street.

 

[Fenway]

The interesting thing about this is that even though some of the teams who took the airplanes arrived fastest, it wasn't that much faster than those arriving by bus and train. Also, the fact that the bus was competitive time-wise with the train just shows that Metro-North and Amtrak need to do something about the slow running between New Rochelle and New Haven.

I wonder what a Washington - New York bus/train/plane race would look like.

TSA at airports is a big factor today and it evens the playing field.

I remember as a kid paying on the plane.



New Haven/New York is a black hole for both rail and bus but at least on Amtrak, it is predictable. I-95 in CT is what it is.

 

[railiner]

TSA at airports is a big factor today and it evens the playing field.

I remember as a kid paying on the plane.

View attachment 32557

New Haven/New York is a black hole for both rail and bus but at least on Amtrak, it is predictable. I-95 in CT is what it is.

What nostalgia!
Making a mad dash from the taxi direct to the gate, boarding, and then paying the cash fare to the stewardess.

IIRC, you only had to stop long enough to put your name and address on a card and drop it in a box at the gate, “just in case” something happened to your flight…

 

[Amtrak25]

Let's look at the GL Montreal - Boston route. It ran 4 times a day, driver change at Burlington Airport, much patronage there.

Today, post pandemic, 1 bus a day, no Burlington Airport, curbside stop adjacent to the city bus station.

This outfit is far more self-destructive than Amtrak, bus equivalent of Sears Roebuck, has no idea where the business is, and has been going out of business since the early-1980's. It now seems to be run it down to one bus a day, cry driver shortage, cut intermediate stops, then turn it over to Flixbus.

GL is following Greyhound Canada, which no longer exists. Covid was the excuse to kill the last of it east of Sudbury. At least Ontario Northland runs one bus a day to Winnipeg, overnight Toronto - Sault Ste Marie. New York Trailways picked up the pieces for Toronto -Detroit after a no-service hiatus. That's a long ways from their HQ near Kingtson, NY.

We are basically going back to the 1940's of a segmented national bus sytem before Greyhound stiched eveything together with acquistion of independents.

 

[Fenway]

What nostalgia!
Making a mad dash from the taxi direct to the gate, boarding, and then paying the cash fare to the stewardess.

IIRC, you only had to stop long enough to put your name and address on a card and drop it in a box at the gate, “just in case” something happened to your flight…

I remember the vending machine that spit out a boarding pass similar to what you would see in a deli.



The big drawback of taking the bus to NY back then was the Port Authority Bus Terminal.

When Pan Am came along in 1986 I became a fan and they had a brilliant advertising campaign.

 

[Matthew H Fish]

Incidentally, since the Miles in Transit videos are so popular, I was wondering if we should have a thread to share Transit/Travel YouTube videos and channels. (And which subforum it should go in)
Transit and travel YouTube is great because it allows us to look at so many things that would never be covered otherwise, and in so many different ways. People can make videos about personal experiences, technical specifications and the history of any type of train or transit system in the country. So it might be a good place to post all our favorite transit/travel channels.
(Including, of course, mine)

 

[railiner]

We are basically going back to the 1940's of a segmented national bus sytem before Greyhound stiched eveything together with acquistion of independents.

If only, we could go back to the fantastic routes and frequencies offered by the intercity bus carriers of the 1940’s!
Both Greyhound and Trailways, along with independent carriers offered a comprehensive network of connecting and thru services..

 

[Trollopian]

Incidentally, since the Miles in Transit videos are so popular, I was wondering if we should have a thread to share Transit/Travel YouTube videos and channels. (And which subforum it should go in)...t might be a good place to post all our favorite transit/travel channels. (Including, of course, mine.)

I adore Miles and applaud his parents who had the foresight to name him...Miles, on which he's capitalized so cleverly. What would be yours? "Fishtailing?"

 

[Matthew H Fish]

I adore Miles and applaud his parents who had the foresight to name him...Miles, on which he's capitalized so cleverly. What would be yours? "Fishtailing?"

"Fish" isn't actually my real last name.
I actually started my YouTube channel during the pandemic years, and originally it was just really short trips by bicycle. For my first year a video would be successful if it got 20 views.
I haven't tried to "brand" it, although it might be more successful if I made it more cute, and had more of my personality. I try to keep the focus on the places I go.
Which is actually a great thing about this entire phenomena...some transit and travel videos focus on the subjective experience of travel, others take a more objective view. There is something for everyone!

 

[BlackDiamond]

Something positive for a change in bus news.

Concord Coach now has express service from New Hampshire to Logan Airport in Boston. It runs about every 2 hours stopping at Concord and Londonderry.

https://concordcoachlines.com/new-nh-schedule-now-with-direct-service-to-logan-airport/

 

[Fenway]

Episode 3

Episode 4

 

[railiner]

Something positive for a change in bus news.

Concord Coach now has express service from New Hampshire to Logan Airport in Boston. It runs about every 2 hours stopping at Concord and Londonderry.

https://concordcoachlines.com/new-nh-schedule-now-with-direct-service-to-logan-airport/

C & J also has service from Logan to parts of NH….
https://www.ridecj.com/

 

[Fenway]

C & J also has service from Logan to parts of NH….
https://www.ridecj.com/

C & J also has service from Logan to parts of NH….
https://www.ridecj.com/

C & J delivers

I use their service from Seabrook, NH to Logan often and have NEVER had an issue.

 

[BlackDiamond]

C & J also has service from Logan to parts of NH….
https://www.ridecj.com/

C&J serves Boston from Dover/Portsmouth/Seabrook NH while Concord Coach serves Concord and Londonderry so they are complimentary.

 

[Fenway]

Took C&J from Logan to Seabrook yesterday - They charge $24 each way but a good chunk of that is fees Massport charges at Logan - parking in Seabrook costs $3.50 a day - it is a well-run operation.

 

[MARC Rider]

Took C&J from Logan to Seabrook yesterday - They charge $24 each way but a good chunk of that is fees Massport charges at Logan - parking in Seabrook costs $3.50 a day - it is a well-run operation.

So they go to South Station, too, like the Concord Coaches do? If so, is the fare to South Station less? (Keeping in mind that one would have to pay a couple of bucks for the Silver Line ride from South Station to the airport.)

 

[Fenway]

Episode 4

Episode 5

 

[Fenway]

So they go to South Station, too, like the Concord Coaches do? If so, is the fare to South Station less? (Keeping in mind that one would have to pay a couple of bucks for the Silver Line ride from South Station to the airport.)

South Station to Seabrook is $14

 

[Fenway]

Episode 5

This episode captures Greyhound at its worst.

The driver from New York didn't know where South Station was and dropped the passengers off at Sullivan Square..... How on earth can that happen????????

 

[Willbridge]

Sometime in late May or early June, Greyhound handed off the once a day Portland<>Boise route to Flix. They already had turned the Boise<>Salt Lake City segment of their northernmost transcontinental schedule to Salt Lake Express. This was once a three times a day Union Pacific Stages route, and for many years Greyhound continued that service level. When the Pioneer was launched, Greyhound added a fourth bus on an express schedule, but later withdrew it.

Farewell....

Portland depot in December 2015.


Baker City breakfast stop in December 2015. This two-night/one business day run replicated the Portland Rose between Portland and Denver. It was an important carrier of newspapers and package express. The remaining schedule follows the Pioneer pattern of one-night/two business days.

 

[jebr]

Sometime in late May or early June, Greyhound handed off the once a day Portland<>Boise route to Flix. They already had turned the Boise<>Salt Lake City segment of their northernmost transcontinental schedule to Salt Lake Express. This was once a three times a day Union Pacific Stages route, and for many years Greyhound continued that service level. When the Pioneer was launched, Greyhound added a fourth bus on an express schedule, but later withdrew it.

Part of me wonders if Flixbus is trying to dismantle the Greyhound network entirely. Their model in Europe relies on outsourcing basically the entire operation, where they're basically just a technology company that the bus companies use to have passengers book rides on. Having a large legacy bus operation, including paying operators, vehicle maintenance/procurement, etc. seems like something they'd love to be able to get rid of quickly, especially if they can foist those routes onto third party operators so Flixbus doesn't have to look like they dropped the route entirely.

 

[Fenway]

Part of me wonders if Flixbus is trying to dismantle the Greyhound network entirely. Their model in Europe relies on outsourcing basically the entire operation, where they're basically just a technology company that the bus companies use to have passengers book rides on. Having a large legacy bus operation, including paying operators, vehicle maintenance/procurement, etc. seems like something they'd love to be able to get rid of quickly, especially if they can foist those routes onto third party operators so Flixbus doesn't have to look like they dropped the route entirely.

Even the surviving Chinatown bus between Boston and NYC uses Flixbus for booking

 

[Willbridge]

Part of me wonders if Flixbus is trying to dismantle the Greyhound network entirely. Their model in Europe relies on outsourcing basically the entire operation, where they're basically just a technology company that the bus companies use to have passengers book rides on. Having a large legacy bus operation, including paying operators, vehicle maintenance/procurement, etc. seems like something they'd love to be able to get rid of quickly, especially if they can foist those routes onto third party operators so Flixbus doesn't have to look like they dropped the route entirely.

Yes. Perhaps they might keep some lines branded as "Experiential" Greyhound, which would also avoid unpleasant mass media and political attention.

Greyhound's diminished reputation may help to explain why the parallel Flix runs often can have higher fares than GL, for comparable services.

 

[railiner]

Part of me wonders if Flixbus is trying to dismantle the Greyhound network entirely. Their model in Europe relies on outsourcing basically the entire operation, where they're basically just a technology company that the bus companies use to have passengers book rides on. Having a large legacy bus operation, including paying operators, vehicle maintenance/procurement, etc. seems like something they'd love to be able to get rid of quickly, especially if they can foist those routes onto third party operators so Flixbus doesn't have to look like they dropped the route entirely.

It appears that way to some extent, but since Greyhound seemed bent on self-destruction anyway, why waste money buying their now badly tarnished brand?
FirstGroup was very fortunate to cut their losses, and get something for their tanking investment…

 

[thully]

GL is following Greyhound Canada, which no longer exists. Covid was the excuse to kill the last of it east of Sudbury. At least Ontario Northland runs one bus a day to Winnipeg, overnight Toronto - Sault Ste Marie. New York Trailways picked up the pieces for Toronto -Detroit after a no-service hiatus. That's a long ways from their HQ near Kingtson, NY.

I actually just took that Trailways Detroit-Toronto run - do think it’s strange that NY Trailways is doing this. I booked from Ann Arbor via a connection from Indian Trails, and there were like only 4 people on the Detroit-Toronto leg (about the same A2-Detroit). Interestingly, Flixbus also operates a similar route once a day (Trailways runs 2x daily), and it runs at the same time as one of the Trailways runs (which I saw cause some confusion at the station). Flix recently moved their operations to the Detroit Greyhound station, so you can now book Flixbus/Greyhound connecting itineraries (as you can with Trailways/Indian Trails). Hope this route survives - think I prefer VIA, but getting to Windsor from Ann Arbor can be a pain for non-drivers like me (particularly with multiple connections, some of which are hourly). Wish someone would run a direct bus connection to Windsor VIA, at least while there isn’t cross border train service. Will see how Trailways is on the way back - my trip here was 90min late due to a crash closing 401 outside of Windsor, though I had a similarly long delay on VIA last year…