MSP - CHI second daily train poised to receive MN funding

[jebr]

Funding for the second daily train is in the transportation omnibus in Minnesota. From Minnesota House Session Daily, 6/22/2021:

One-time General Fund appropriations for MnDOT include:
[...]
$10 million for second daily Amtrak service between Minneapolis/St. Paul and Chicago;

This particular bill is likely to pass - listening into the session there was an attempt to remove the funding but that amendment failed. I believe this is one of the last funding pieces needed to get the second daily train out of study mode and into implementation mode.

 

[daybeers]

Awesome! So what's the next step, assuming it passes? Will that be in the next week or so?

 

[MisterUptempo]

According to the WisDOT website, the only missing financial piece of the puzzle is $6.2 million in matching funds from the State of Wisconsin. It may have already been approved. I'm searching for that info now.

Project funding

• $31.8 million Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) Consolidated Railroad Infrastructure and Safety Improvement (CRISI) grant was awarded in September 2020 for final design and construction of required railroad improvements to implement TCMC passenger trains. Amtrak has committed $5 million in funding. An additional $16.2 million in state match dollars are needed:
  • Wisconsin - $6.2 million
  • Minnesota - $10 million
• $12.6 million Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) Restoration & Enhancement Program grant was awarded in May 2020 to offset cost of operations for the first three years.

Here is a projected timeline for the project-

 

[jebr]

I just double checked and the Wisconsin money has already been obtained. From the St. Paul Pioneer Press back in September 2020:

Matching funds in the amount of $21.2 million were included in the application: $6.2 million from Wisconsin and $5 million from Amtrak. The matching $10 million from Minnesota has not yet been approved in the legislature.

As for next steps, I'm not 100% sure but it'll likely be paying for any capital projects needed before starting the train. Hopefully the 2024 timeline holds up or happens sooner.

 

[George Harris]

What capital projects? There should be next to nothing in the way of capital projects for this. Somebody has to be making a bundle on studies here. There should be almost nothing between, Buy equipment and run trains. This line already has passenger service. Maybe the RR decides they need another siding, but since if I recall correctly this line was mostly double track at one time, this should amount to little more than brush clearing, ballast, two turnouts, and lay track. Six months to a year between "let's do it" and running the train.

 

[zephyr17]

I have every confidence CP is sticking its hand out with all manner of expensive capacity improvements that would be "required" to accommodate one more train.

 

[moselman66]

The capital improvements are on page 6 of this link, primarily stuff in the Winona and La Crosse areas to reduce congestion.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/multimodal/rail/TCMC-booklet20210526.pdf
There are also capital improvement projects funded to add a second platform at Milwaukee Airport and improvements at Milwaukee's Muskego Yards to allow fright trains to bypass the Milwaukee Intermodal Station but I think those are improvements earmarked toward the Hiawatha getting an 8th, 9th and 10th train rather than something the second MSP-CHI train needs to have in place.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwauk...-awarded-5m-grant-to-build-second-amtrak.htmlhttps://gwenmoore.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=4508

 

[bms]

A second frequency on this route would be quite welcome. The route along the Mississippi is gorgeous.

 

[neroden]

The capital improvements are on page 6 of this link, primarily stuff in the Winona and La Crosse areas to reduce congestion.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/multimodal/rail/TCMC-booklet20210526.pdf

A smidge of double-tracking around La Crescent bridge and Winona. Reasonable, actually.

 

[jebr]

The transportation omnibus that includes the MN funding for the second daily train has passed the state Senate and has been signed by the Governor.

 

[railiner]

I would think that if Minnesota opened their purse for passenger trains, restoring the Arrowhead or Northstar to Duluth might be a priority....

 

[jebr]

I would think that if Minnesota opened their purse for passenger trains, restoring the Arrowhead or Northstar to Duluth might be a priority....

There was discussion of that as well (though the project is now titled the Northern Lights Express.) I remember seeing some discussion of it potentially making it into a bonding bill, but there's been no Minnesota state bonding bill this year so it's basically in the "shovel ready but no funding" status.

 

[Steve4031]

Would be an interesting ride if they could create a through Chicago to Duluth service that would complement the EB between MSP and CHI.

 

[WWW]

Would be an interesting ride if they could create a through Chicago to Duluth service that would complement the EB between MSP and CHI.

Don't even think about combining a Duluth segment/connection with the EB -
While train #7 is fairly timely - NO ONE would want to go to Duluth on a red-eye -
As for train #8 it runs so late that - never a connection shall the twain meet.

What would be great is to operate that second Chicago train starting in Duluth.

And correct the disaster of that NorthStar rail service ending/beginning at Big Lake
It originally was to start/end at St. Cloud - but that was switched to a dead end track

The distance between Minnesota and some Wisconsin cities is similar to the east coast -
The train would always beat plane travel city to city -
Move rail freight by night and passengers by day

 

[Steve4031]

Don't even think about combining a Duluth segment/connection with the EB -
While train #7 is fairly timely - NO ONE would want to go to Duluth on a red-eye -
As for train #8 it runs so late that - never a connection shall the twain meet.

What would be great is to operate that second Chicago train starting in Duluth.

And correct the disaster of that NorthStar rail service ending/beginning at Big Lake
It originally was to start/end at St. Cloud - but that was switched to a dead end track

The distance between Minnesota and some Wisconsin cities is similar to the east coast -
The train would always beat plane travel city to city -
Move rail freight by night and passengers by day

I meant adding a second train that would operate on a separate schedule from the empire builder. We are in agreement.

 

[railiner]

Timetable showing the North Star, before it was truncated into a MSP to Duluth local train in October of 1981. That ended permanently in April of 1985.


http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19810426&item=0043

 

[jiml]

Timetable showing the North Star, before it was truncated into a MSP to Duluth local train in October of 1981. That ended permanently in April of 1985.


http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19810426&item=0043

That meshes fairly well with the Milwaukee-Chicago corridor.

 

[WWW]

Timetable showing the North Star, before it was truncated into a MSP to Duluth local train in October of 1981. That ended permanently in April of 1985.
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19810426&item=0043

Thanks that sure brought back memorable times - - -
On several occasions took our airline employee group (group discounted fares) to Duluth for a lunch on a St. Louis harbor tour and then
off to the Murder Mansion (Glensheen) arriving back in time for a quick dinner at the Radisson Hotel top floor rotating restaurant and bar
then a 2 block walk all aboard the return to MSP.

Note in that schedule that trains 9 & 10 had some red-eye hours of operation - - -
If that were done today would need to add a couple of sleeper cars for the Chicago Milwaukee segment.

If it weren't for the condition of the tracks and freight rail traffic Chicago Mpls/StPaul could be done in 6+ hours and Duluth in 2 more -
Wishful thinking limited stops and all that lot !

Todays North Star is a commuter rail system from Target Field downtown Minneapolis to Big Lake some 30 miles short of the planned
original destination St. Cloud - tracks and logistics St. Paul was never in the loop on this - another boneheaded debacle !

 

[MARC Rider]

It seems to me that connecting the Twin Cities to Chicago would have a higher priority than connecting them to Duluth, which is, after all, not a very large city (~250,000 pop) with not much in between. And the amount of through traffic from Duluth all the way to Chicago is probably not enough to justify funding a through train as a high priority. Let's get a second CHI-MSP train running (and maybe a third or a fourth) and then worry about the bells and whistles of longer trips.

 

[MARC Rider]

If it weren't for the condition of the tracks and freight rail traffic Chicago Mpls/StPaul could be done in 6+ hours and Duluth in 2 more -
Wishful thinking limited stops and all that lot !

According to Google Maps, the driving time between Chicago and St. Paul is 5:36 and 400 miles. Of course, it reality, it's probably a bit longer. It takes me closer to 8 hours to drive the 400 miles between Baltimore and Boston. But then, that drive involves the New Jersey Turnpike, getting through New York City, and so forth. One also has to factor in restroom breaks and meal stops, which I don't think Google Maps does.

 

[moselman66]

A Duluth leg could reasonably be added to the end of the proposed second MSP-CHI trip, something along the lines below. The MSP-CHI times are similar to what have been proposed.

Southbound
0710 DLH dep
1050 MSP arr
1125 MSP dep
1735 MKE arr
1910 CHI arr

Northbound
1030 CHI dep
1205 MKE dep
1820 MSP arr
1855 MSP dep
2235 DLH arr

Would this interfere with advancement of the Northern Lights Express? A proposed DLH-MSP / MSP-DLH addition to the end of the second Amtrak Chicago trip runs at pretty good times, but the NLX is plan is to be 4x/day and at higher speeds. Restoring a 1x/day Amtrak do Duluth might take some of the enthusiasm out of the bigger NLX project.

The MSP-DLH times (3:40) are similar to what Amtrak posted last. The NLX and the proposal in Connect US cut that down to 2:35 which would be quite a change, though it probably would mean a lot of improvements, control or removal of grade crossings and the like.

 

[IndyLions]

It seems to me that connecting the Twin Cities to Chicago would have a higher priority than connecting them to Duluth, which is, after all, not a very large city (~250,000 pop) with not much in between. And the amount of through traffic from Duluth all the way to Chicago is probably not enough to justify funding a through train as a high priority. Let's get a second CHI-MSP train running (and maybe a third or a fourth) and then worry about the bells and whistles of longer trips.

Spoken as a true east coaster

I think you’d be surprised how many Minnesotans are fond of going up north.

 

[Barb Stout]

Spoken as a true east coaster

I think you’d be surprised how many Minnesotans are fond of going up north.

True. A lot of "cabin in the woods" people in the Sin Twitties. Oh, but then you would need a car.

 

[MARC Rider]

Spoken as a true east coaster

I think you’d be surprised how many Minnesotans are fond of going up north.

I think the Minnesota legislators know local priorities better than me, and they're the ones that funded the second MSP-CHI train and not the service to Duluth.

 

[IndyLions]

I think the Minnesota legislators know local priorities better than me, and they're the ones that funded the second MSP-CHI train and not the service to Duluth.

True - but the attitude of your post was spoken like a true east coaster. It’s all about the population…