New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[tonys96]

Look back through the threads.
When Amtrak started cutting "amenities" like real plates and silverware, the apologists here called those of us who were alarmed, whiners who wanted flowers on the tables. All we said is this was the tip of a slippery slope.
But we were told how easy it was to use plastic plates and utensils, and again those flowers. Look back. It is there in the threads.
Now, after losing the PPCs, wine tastings, amentity kits, etc., and now the full service diners, it looks like that slope was, indeed, slippery.
And we have not reached the bottom yet. There us still more slope left. Lots more.

 

[BBoy]

Spot on tonys96.

 

[Asher]

Look back through the threads.
When Amtrak started cutting "amenities" like real plates and silverware, the apologists here called those of us who were alarmed, whiners who wanted flowers on the tables. All we said is this was the tip of a slippery slope.
But we were told how easy it was to use plastic plates and utensils, and again those flowers. Look back. It is there in the threads.
Now, after losing the PPCs, wine tastings, amentity kits, etc., and now the full service diners, it looks like that slope was, indeed, slippery.
And we have not reached the bottom yet. There us still more slope left. Lots more.

Slippery slope, sounds more like falling off a cliff.

 

[junebug]

So coach passengers won't be able to get meals in the dining cars? What's a contemporary meal? I have to agree that first class on an airline is the same price as a sleeper car, but I love the experience of meeting people and seeing what the country looks like. I usually don't get a sleeper. So no meals on a two day trip for me?

 

[pennyk]

So coach passengers won't be able to get meals in the dining cars? What's a contemporary meal? I have to agree that first class on an airline is the same price as a sleeper car, but I love the experience of meeting people and seeing what the country looks like. I usually don't get a sleeper. So no meals on a two day trip for me?

As it stands now, the contemporary meals will be only available to sleeper passengers. The affected trains are generally those east of the Mississippi. The cafe car will be available to coach passengers.
Contemporary meals are basically boxed meals.

 

[Winecliff Station]

Look back through the threads.
When Amtrak started cutting "amenities" like real plates and silverware, the apologists here called those of us who were alarmed, whiners who wanted flowers on the tables. All we said is this was the tip of a slippery slope.
But we were told how easy it was to use plastic plates and utensils, and again those flowers. Look back. It is there in the threads.
Now, after losing the PPCs, wine tastings, amentity kits, etc., and now the full service diners, it looks like that slope was, indeed, slippery.
And we have not reached the bottom yet. There us still more slope left. Lots more.

I suppose the most they could do is make them all purchase-only meal service, like the Star. Is there more slope beyond that?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Be nice if they just out source the whole thing. Here this dinner and some crew space. Amtrak maintains the railcars, all OBS, and stock is the contractor problem.

 

[Qapla]

One of the problems/objection to outsourcing or renting the diner space to an outside company is, anytime you replace a union employee (Amtrak employee) with a non-union employee (ones working for the contract bid win) there is a lot of complaints, criticism negative talk ...

I'm not taking sides either way - just saying what I have seen

 

[ScouseAndy]

Be nice if they just out source the whole thing. Here this dinner and some crew space. Amtrak maintains the railcars, all OBS, and stock is the contractor problem.

you mean like what happens in most other countries across the world? In some parts of the world they go even further and the outsource company owns the restaurant car and pay the train company for the the car to be included on the consist

 

[crescent-zephyr]

you mean like what happens in most other countries across the world? In some parts of the world they go even further and the outsource company owns the restaurant car and pay the train company for the the car to be included on the consist

Where does this happen?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

In some parts of the world they go even further and the outsource company owns the restaurant car and pay the train company for the the car to be included on the consist

I don’t think this is happening. The railroad own the cars, and maintaining them. While contractor provides staff and stock. That the current model. If you require the outsider to provide the railcar, and maintain them the cost fact will be to great.

 

[Steve4031]

Amtrak just eliminated many Union Jobs with this contemporary diner mess. One of my SCAs on my CZ trip in early August recognized me from his days on the LSL. He stated the Union was unable to do much to protect these employees. Either they move on to other spots in the system and bump less senior employees or retire.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The railroad own the cars, and maintaining them. While contractor provides staff and stock. That the current model.

Which is the current model for the Downeaster as well.

The question is... what company wants to staff and stock an Amtrak train? And since said company would not want to operate at a loss... what is the gain for Amtrak?

 

[Rasputin]

Wasn't outsourcing of café service to Subway tried in New York state a few years back and it failed miserably due to union resistance.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Wasn't outsourcing of café service to Subway tried in New York state a few years back and it failed miserably due to union resistance.

The Downeaster is an outsourced cafe on an Amtrak train. It can be done. That is a fact.

Now outsorcing anything long distance is a different ball game with a lot more complications.

Again.... if you are losing money either way.... what’s the benefit?

 

[me_little_me]

Amtrak just eliminated many Union Jobs with this contemporary diner mess. One of my SCAs on my CZ trip in early August recognized me from his days on the LSL. He stated the Union was unable to do much to protect these employees. Either they move on to other spots in the system and bump less senior employees or retire.

Eliminating jobs is likely allowed by the contract but replacing them with outside contractors is likely not.

 

[Palmetto]

Wasn't outsourcing of café service to Subway tried in New York state a few years back and it failed miserably due to union resistance.

Yes.

 

[PVD]

So the workers get substandard wages and benefits, the contractor takes the difference as their profit, and Amtrak saves little or nothing. Remember, despite being outsourced, the Downeaster food service loses money. The difference is, the loss is acceptable as part of the business plan for that service.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The question is... what company wants to staff and stock an Amtrak train? And since said company would not want to operate at a loss... what is the gain for Amtrak?

Newrest was activity seek business with Amtrak.

http://www.newrest.eu/en/who-we-work-for/railway-companies/

Fact not fiction. Not sure the type of business but the company was talking to Amtrak.

 

[Qapla]

I guess it all depends on your definition of "substandard wages".

If some brand name fast food place contracted for the car and paid it's employees $1 more than their usual wage in a brick-and-mortar store (it may be less than Amtrak would have paid their employees on that train car) the fast food employees would not think they were getting substandard wages.

Now, whether that fast food place could actually make money running a train store - that is a whole different question ...

 

[PVD]

The fact that American workers are increasingly willing to accept lower and lower standards to survive isn't something we should be proud of as a country, or consider a positive in any way. Having both parents working, or people working 2 jobs has helped to destroy family life in this country with the resulting negative fallout. Maybe instead of telling ourselves how great we are we should start to be great. It is harder and harder to retire with a decent standard of living because pensions have been disappearing, and the fact that we still fight over healthcare for people who work, worked until retirement or disability, or those who are still in school or not able to work puts us well behind much of the rest of the industrialized world.

 

[Maverickstation]

The Downeaster is an outsourced cafe on an Amtrak train. It can be done. That is a fact.

Now outsorcing anything long distance is a different ball game with a lot more complications.

Again.... if you are losing money either way.... what’s the benefit?

No, The Downeaster is a Northern New England Rail Passenger Authority (NNEPRA) train service.
Amtrak happens to be the company they contract with to run the train.

The schedules, fares, policies, AND cafe car caterer are all controlled by NNEPRA.

Ken

 

[Twinkletoes]

Over the past few weeks I have been reading the discussion about the cutbacks in dining service. I had a taste of “contemporary” dining last summer on the Lake Shore Limited and found it woefully lacking. This past May, I experienced the upgraded version and found it passable, but nothing to rave about. I just returned from a Crescent trip in sleepers: August 18-19 (Train 19) and August 31-Sept 1 (Train 20)-Meridian to NY City. I had a chance eat 2 breakfasts, 2 lunches, and 2 dinners. At all meals both sleeper and coach used the diner. Nothing beats sitting down to a warm meal even if the plates are plastic. The cutlery is still metal and the napkins are cloth. The grits are still fantastic. The green beans are outstanding. They were cooked the old fashioned southern way and everybody who had them commented on how good they were (including two folks from Vermont). The dinner crab cake (which I ordered without the steak) was very good, and I understand people who got the mussels at lunch truly enjoyed them.

I remember the old days with dedicated cooks, waiters, and a steward for staff with crockery plates, lined table cloths, and real flowers as amenities. There were also lines of people waiting to eat at the coach and the sleeper ends of the car. Nevertheless, I think that in addition to labor and other costs, it’s also hard to compete with how we eat today. Indeed we tend to eat continuously—snacking and grazing all day. We boomers remember structured, set mealtimes at home, school (elementary, high school and college), and work. We have pronounced food preferences that we expect restaurants to provide—vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, low fat/low calorie, sweeteners (raw sugar, stevia). Discussions with other sleeper passengers reveal that people commonly bring supplemental foods that they prefer; e.g., cold cereal, pastries, and granolas or sandwiches. I’ve seen people enter the dining car and leave after interrogating the server about food content. There are no simple answers.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

No, The Downeaster is a Northern New England Rail Passenger Authority (NNEPRA) train service.
Amtrak happens to be the company they contract with to run the train.

The schedules, fares, policies, AND cafe car caterer are all controlled by NNEPRA.

Ken

True. It’s still a unique arrangement. I guess it’s the same as Indiana paying Iowa Pacific for the service on the Hoosier State.

 

[Rasputin]

For those who are in favor of outsourcing café and dining car service I think it would be instructive to study the New York attempt at this and see what went wrong. I can't recall what year this was tried. My recollection is that there was a lot of planning done to have Subway operate the café car service on some trains but it fizzled out miserably only a couple days after it went into effect. I think it proved to be very difficult in that environment to have union and non-union employees working on the same train. Maybe someone has further details about this attempt.