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Thanks for sharing. I was aware of the methodology they were pursuing but was unsure of where they were in the approval process.
New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC
- Thread starter danlb_2000
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Uh, many, many WAS to NYP trains leave WAS from the lower level. No problem at all to make a cross platform transfer.
west point
Engineer
If anyone here checks Capitol after September 5 -6 it will find that family room shows sold out all dates. Since Family room is Superliner only Amtrak is not selling it on Capitol. That IMO is indicating Amtrak is planning to remove Superliners from Capitol after those dates but is not entirely sure that will happen. It could be that Amtrak is worried about an unknown unknown will happen before then that would change Amtrak's plans for Capitol. One item would be loss of significant single level equipment.
Right now, all Star's city pairs WAS and south are available thru FEB have no schedule change. But any Star north of WAS shows sold out without any alternate way to connect Star to north of WAS destinations. That may be another indication of Amtrak hoping that any unknowns do not happen? Going north of WAS to BOS regional 178 or Night Owl #66 which could be a sleeper from Star.
If Star does not go WAS <> NYP that frees up 1 whole train set of single level equipment. So, if Star's equipment is used to cover Capitol only one more single level train set would be needed for Capitol. Amtrak a while back advertised for car cleaners at WAS that might have one task to clean train set at WAS.
In conclusion too many possibilities at present.
Right now, all Star's city pairs WAS and south are available thru FEB have no schedule change. But any Star north of WAS shows sold out without any alternate way to connect Star to north of WAS destinations. That may be another indication of Amtrak hoping that any unknowns do not happen? Going north of WAS to BOS regional 178 or Night Owl #66 which could be a sleeper from Star.
If Star does not go WAS <> NYP that frees up 1 whole train set of single level equipment. So, if Star's equipment is used to cover Capitol only one more single level train set would be needed for Capitol. Amtrak a while back advertised for car cleaners at WAS that might have one task to clean train set at WAS.
In conclusion too many possibilities at present.
Yeah, we discussed above that it would be possible with a Virginia train.
Even back in the SAL era, the Meteor seemed to be the favorite, as indicated by the assignment of those “Sun Lounge”, glass topped sleeper lounges. The only train “higher” in the pecking order, was the seasonal Orange Blossom Special…
One result of this speculated change will be the absence of Superliner trains in the East (except for the Auto Train). So for those who are fans of these, or have not yet had the opportunity to ride them close to home, “ride ‘em while you can”. Unfortunately, it seems that the opportunity to ride in a Sightseer Lounge over Sand Patch, is already gone…
west point
Engineer
If Superliners leave WAS then almost all spare parts specific to Superliners can be allocated to other station mainly Sanford, Lorton, and CHI? Maybe only enough parts to keep Superliners going from Lorton <> Beech.Grove
I would surely hope that passengers would be allowed to stay onboard and it's a through train from Miami to Chicago via Washington DC. This would be most efficient. Unloading and then re-loading passengers at Washington DC between Star and Capitol is just a lot of work for train crews and red caps etc.
Much more efficient operation to run the Capitol Limited through to Miami with the Star. These were always guaranteed connections and DC would just be a "regular stop" along the way with padding added for the layover period as needed. Re-timing the schedules would be a nightmare. This also only requires five (5) train sets for through operation, so the Capitol's Superliners (and spares in Ivy City) can be transferred to Chicago and Western Longhaul trains. I just hope they do justice and get the Star-Capitol Viewliner II Diners with traditional dining. This is literally just one extra train set that would be needed to operate the Silver-Capitol combo.
The Silver Meteor appears to be getting its third Viewliner Sleeper restored, finally. Much needed.
The Silver Star-Capitol Limited combo really needs to have three (3) Viewliner Sleepers per consist. Or build towards it. Yes, the inventory is there for the addition of Viewliner Sleepers. Moreover, in a perfect world, it'd be nice if they could interchange a sleeper and coach at Washington DC (from NYP on the corridor). I don't see that happening as Amtrak has greatly simplified operations. The Boardman plan was to also interchange a Viewliner II Diner, VIewliner Sleeper, and Coach at Pittsburgh to/from the Pennsylvanian, but lets not get crazy! There's a lot that Amtrak could do to become a more efficient operation with its consists and equipment. This is just one example that's being considered/tested/implemented with the Capitol Limited-Silver Star combo. Remember that back in the early 90s too, as Superliner II cars were being deployed and assigned to the Capitol Limited, the push back then was to extend the Capitol Limited to Miami via Washington DC with Superliners!!! Sort of the other way around. But the ridership studies then, proved this would not work and the Star would lose too much of its NYC and NEC based ridership.
Again, the sad part is that the Capitol Limited operated with two Superliner Sleepers and at least six rooms sold in the Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper. That was a lot of berths that were sold. The combo Capitol Limited-Silver Star as a single level train is going to have far less berths in the sleeper for sale than what was pre-2017. Course we all know that the Capitol Limited has been a mess in capacity recently. But add to that, the crew has to be housed in the single level Viewliner Cars. Hence why I would be pushing for three Viewliner Sleepers for this two night trip between Chicago and Miami. It is very common to have a complete Superliner Sleeper unload all its passengers at Pittsburgh for connection with the Pennsylvanian. That should not be under-estimated, and it always has been since the discontinuance of the Broadway Limited / Three Rivers.
90 - Berths with Two Superliners and Superliner Trans Dorm
58 - Berths with Two Viewliner II Sleepers, reserving 6 rooms for onboard staff and considering room #11 is for storage and room #12 is the SCA's room.
That's a reduction of 32 sleepers, or one full Viewliner Sleeper, hence why the third Viewliner sleeper is needed for these consists - apples to apples.
There are 75 Viewliner Cars in inventory. Amtrak needs to work to get all back in working order, as they once were at one time!!! Been three years in post-COVID.
Much more efficient operation to run the Capitol Limited through to Miami with the Star. These were always guaranteed connections and DC would just be a "regular stop" along the way with padding added for the layover period as needed. Re-timing the schedules would be a nightmare. This also only requires five (5) train sets for through operation, so the Capitol's Superliners (and spares in Ivy City) can be transferred to Chicago and Western Longhaul trains. I just hope they do justice and get the Star-Capitol Viewliner II Diners with traditional dining. This is literally just one extra train set that would be needed to operate the Silver-Capitol combo.
The Silver Meteor appears to be getting its third Viewliner Sleeper restored, finally. Much needed.
The Silver Star-Capitol Limited combo really needs to have three (3) Viewliner Sleepers per consist. Or build towards it. Yes, the inventory is there for the addition of Viewliner Sleepers. Moreover, in a perfect world, it'd be nice if they could interchange a sleeper and coach at Washington DC (from NYP on the corridor). I don't see that happening as Amtrak has greatly simplified operations. The Boardman plan was to also interchange a Viewliner II Diner, VIewliner Sleeper, and Coach at Pittsburgh to/from the Pennsylvanian, but lets not get crazy! There's a lot that Amtrak could do to become a more efficient operation with its consists and equipment. This is just one example that's being considered/tested/implemented with the Capitol Limited-Silver Star combo. Remember that back in the early 90s too, as Superliner II cars were being deployed and assigned to the Capitol Limited, the push back then was to extend the Capitol Limited to Miami via Washington DC with Superliners!!! Sort of the other way around. But the ridership studies then, proved this would not work and the Star would lose too much of its NYC and NEC based ridership.
Again, the sad part is that the Capitol Limited operated with two Superliner Sleepers and at least six rooms sold in the Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper. That was a lot of berths that were sold. The combo Capitol Limited-Silver Star as a single level train is going to have far less berths in the sleeper for sale than what was pre-2017. Course we all know that the Capitol Limited has been a mess in capacity recently. But add to that, the crew has to be housed in the single level Viewliner Cars. Hence why I would be pushing for three Viewliner Sleepers for this two night trip between Chicago and Miami. It is very common to have a complete Superliner Sleeper unload all its passengers at Pittsburgh for connection with the Pennsylvanian. That should not be under-estimated, and it always has been since the discontinuance of the Broadway Limited / Three Rivers.
90 - Berths with Two Superliners and Superliner Trans Dorm
58 - Berths with Two Viewliner II Sleepers, reserving 6 rooms for onboard staff and considering room #11 is for storage and room #12 is the SCA's room.
That's a reduction of 32 sleepers, or one full Viewliner Sleeper, hence why the third Viewliner sleeper is needed for these consists - apples to apples.
There are 75 Viewliner Cars in inventory. Amtrak needs to work to get all back in working order, as they once were at one time!!! Been three years in post-COVID.
I was on the Star from ORL to WAS last Wednesday. My SCA seemed surprised when I asked her about the changes in September, but she did say a sleeper & coach would soon be added. I didn't press her on it, so it's possible she was thinking of the Meteor.
She did say, though, that it would be more work because they'll still have just 2 SCAs for the 3 sleepers.
She did say, though, that it would be more work because they'll still have just 2 SCAs for the 3 sleepers.
If the Cap-Star runs with three sleepers, that would be 15 needed (vs 8 now). If the Meteor goes to three sleepers, that'd be 12 needed (vs 8 now). Even assigning 3/1 to the LSL (12 needed) and 2 to the Crescent and Cardinal each (8 and 4 needed), that's "only" 51 of 74. That *should* be doable (and indeed, there's headroom for a through sleeper Cap-Pennsylvanian to NYC).
[Then again, diners on all of these trains should also be doable...]
[Then again, diners on all of these trains should also be doable...]
brianpmcdonnell17
Conductor
The changes to both the CL and SS appear to have been pushed back to November. Up until then, the SS can still be booked north of Washington and family bedrooms and lower level coach seats are available on the CL.
Additionally, connections from the SS to the NER and Acela are now bookable during the period when the SS is shown as sold out north of Washington. However, the reservation system continues to display the CL and SS as separate trains during this time and the CL is still showing as a Superliner train (although the family bedrooms lower level coach seats can not be booked). The connection from 92 to 29 is also still not legal, while 30 to 91 can be booked as a guaranteed connection as has been the case for a few years now.
Additionally, connections from the SS to the NER and Acela are now bookable during the period when the SS is shown as sold out north of Washington. However, the reservation system continues to display the CL and SS as separate trains during this time and the CL is still showing as a Superliner train (although the family bedrooms lower level coach seats can not be booked). The connection from 92 to 29 is also still not legal, while 30 to 91 can be booked as a guaranteed connection as has been the case for a few years now.
NEPATrainTraveler
Service Attendant
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After reading about this rumored change, both here and elsewhere, I am definitely glad I rode the Capitol when I did.One result of this speculated change will be the absence of Superliner trains in the East (except for the Auto Train). So for those who are fans of these, or have not yet had the opportunity to ride them close to home, “ride ‘em while you can”. Unfortunately, it seems that the opportunity to ride in a Sightseer Lounge over Sand Patch, is already gone…
acelafan
Conductor
I saw a friend of mine at Amtrak, he would know details on this stuff. He said 1 tunnel into NYP will be taken out of service late this year for major rehabilitation work. So they have to reduce trains going through the tunnels whereever they can, thus the Star terminating in WAS. I'm speculating that other changes will be forthcoming as well. Keeping the bilevel equipment where it is now has better utilization for maximum passengers. Yeah, they need more cars as we all know but a lot of stuff is damaged.
I hope the dispatchers for NY Penn have strong hearts. Getting the present traffic through with two tunnels is a stretch; one will be a nightmare.
Maybe NJ Transit will be diverting a lot to Hoboken and passing the pax on to the PATH and ferries.
jis
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One East River Tunnel will be taken out of service. Not one Hudson Tunnel. So don't panic. No need to divert huge number of trans Hudson trains. There will be more LIRR diversions to Grand Central than NJT diversions to anywhere.
jis
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The Hudson Tubes are maintained in pretty solid state by shutting one tube down on weekends to carry out maintenance work as necessary. Please let us refrain from rumor mongering.
In any case in this thread we are talking about Silver Service changes, and no Silver Service changes are due to the shutting down of any Hudson Tunnel as you implied. That is the point. The tube that is being taken out of service for six months is not a Hudson one, but an East River one. Discussion of New York Tunnels beyond that would be somewhat off topic in this thread.
This seems to be about cutting out East River tunnel moves, such as by deadheads out and back to Sunnyside. Maybe fewer Keystone trains will go to SSY and back, or top and tail some Empire Albany trains.
I am surprised they didn't go after the Cardinal for Washington truncation, but swapping its consist for the Capitol Ltd would not yield as many Superliners to be transferred out west.
I am surprised they didn't go after the Cardinal for Washington truncation, but swapping its consist for the Capitol Ltd would not yield as many Superliners to be transferred out west.
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The million dollar question would be if this comes to pass would it only be during the tunnel work and would they revert back to Superliners on the Capitol when it's done, or would they keep the Cap on single level equipment and just eliminate the run through at the end. I guess we'll find out eventually. It would obviously consume more single level equipment without the run through but even without the run through it's probably still a better equipment assignment given the pool of single level equipment vs. Superliners.
west point
Engineer
"IF" the star's equipment runs thru on the Capitol then it will only take one more train set of single level equipment. That would release the 3 tiny Capitol's equipment of Super Liners.
A thought> If the star and Meteor swapped departure times at MIA then that would give plenty of time for servicing in WAS either as a thru train or as O&D. As well better connections at WAS for passengers WAS and north to BOS and actually Albany as well.
Now southbound do not have good solution if Capitol late which is a problem now.
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I am on the Star now. My attendant believes the Capitol Limited will be using single level equipment in the fall and that the Star will terminate in WAS. However he does not believe there will be a one seat through ride on the same equipment from Florida to Chicago.
jis
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It would be interesting to say the least. Unless they want to find more than one additional consist, they will have to most likley clean and prepare the consist at platform as they transition it from 92 to 29 and 30 to 91.
Seems to be a lot of work for little benefit.
Trying to book NYP to KIS
Train 91
March 26 through April 11
Says sold out
Called and told “train is full”
Train 72 is wide open.
Can’t be!
What’s the real story.
Train 91
March 26 through April 11
Says sold out
Called and told “train is full”
Train 72 is wide open.
Can’t be!
What’s the real story.
Yeah we did bury the lead.
Sliver Star is not going north of Washington DC. Various reason given, not sure what is going to happen or why.
If you need the Star take a regional or Acela from NYP to Washington DC. Then of course transfer trains.
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