New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC

[Peter_Travels]

According to a conductor who works the Capitol Limited,

“Yes, the rumors are true. I hear that they're going to basically take the previous days [Silver Star] set and prepare it for the following day's Capitol Limited train. There's a lot of stuff they're going to have to do to make sure everything will go smoothly. We're a little bit concerned about mobility impaired passengers, luggage space, passenger space. We will have to wait and see what happens.”

I asked whether the trains will be combined into a so called “Capitol Star”,

“No, it's still a separate service as far as we've heard.”

Furthermore, I asked if they knew where the superliners would be redeployed,

“For 3/4 apparently but it’s not clear.”

 

[Shanson]

Today, a message was posted on Facebook claiming that, as of November, the Silver Star is no more. The train name will be The Floridian. No mention of the status of the Capitol Limited.

 

[Cal]

“For 3/4 apparently but it’s not clear.”

Would personally love to see that, but I think the Eagle might need it more.

Today, a message was posted on Facebook claiming that, as of November, the Silver Star is no more. The train name will be The Floridian. No mention of the status of the Capitol Limited.

That would be quite the change. Will miss the Silver Star name if it happens

Do y'all think this change will be permanent or until enough equipment is back to restore superliners to the CL?

 

[jis]

Would personally love to see that, but I think the Eagle might need it more.


That would be quite the change. Will miss the Silver Star name if it happens

Do y'all think this change will be permanent or until enough equipment is back to restore superliners to the CL?

AFAIK it is permanent. The massively better equipment utilization and higher revenue use of the Superliners out West are unlikely to be reversed

 

[zephyr17]

Do y'all think this change will be permanent or until enough equipment is back to restore superliners to the CL?

My personal opinion is it will be a permanent change. Even if the full Superliner fleet, minus the unrepairable wrecks, was restored to service, it still is only really adequate to cover the Western LDs with full consists and maybe some protection cars.

As to Silver Star versus Capitol Star versus Floridian and separate trains with the same consist, a consist layover in Washington or a through Miami-Chicago train, we are in full rumor mode with no solid information. Information on coming attractions from Amtrak front line personnel historically is unreliable, rumor mills at Amtrak apparently run at full bore. As the Facebook, well, it's Facebook.

The only thing we know for certain is the reservations system changes, which show a truncated Star starting in November, and sleeper inventory indicating Viewliner equipment on the Capitol starting at the same time. That strongly supports the Star's consist running to Chicago in the Capitol's slot. As far as I am concerned how the service will be operated, through train, separate "trains" with the consist running through, separate trains with the consist laying over in Washington for servicing, is wholly speculative with no foundation. I do consider a consist layover in Washington to be the least likely, due to equipment requirements, but that's just me. It is still a possibility. As to the name of the service(s), however it turns out, that is likewise speculative. BTW, I think "Capitol Star" originated here and/or at other Amtrak oriented pages as a handy shorthand, I am fairly sure it is not from Amtrak.

 

[Cal]

On the one hand, a consist layover would still mean a 24hr+ sit in Washington going both ways. But on the other, an hour difference between the arrival of the Star and departure of the CL is a bit tight IMO. Between deboarding, cleaning, restocking, and boarding, it's a lot. Plus any delays that might happen would easily throw the schedule.

 

[zephyr17]

On the one hand, a consist layover would still mean a 24hr+ sit in Washington going both ways. But on the other, an hour difference between the arrival of the Star and departure of the CL is a bit tight IMO. Between deboarding, cleaning, restocking, and boarding, it's a lot. Plus any delays that might happen would easily throw the schedule.

They could adjust the MIA-TPA-WAS schedule back by an hour at least without creating bad times at major points, creating a two hour dwell at WAS. No one says the schedule must be the same as the the current one.

 

[JoeRids]

On the one hand, a consist layover would still mean a 24hr+ sit in Washington going both ways. But on the other, an hour difference between the arrival of the Star and departure of the CL is a bit tight IMO. Between deboarding, cleaning, restocking, and boarding, it's a lot. Plus any delays that might happen would easily throw the schedule.

This would be no different than any other two night out Amtrak schedule. DC would simply be treated like any other stop; no different then Denver on the CZ or Albuquerque on the Chief. Hopefully the Viewliner diner has enough storage space for 6 meals southbound, maybe 7 northbound (does the Star serve breakfast out of MIA)?

 

[Cal]

This would be no different than any other two night out Amtrak schedule. DC would simply be treated like any other stop; no different then Denver on the CZ or Albuquerque on the Chief. Hopefully the Viewliner diner has enough storage space for 6 meals southbound, maybe 7 northbound (does the Star serve breakfast out of MIA)?

Not sure if they're running it as one train though, but if they are yeah that'd work.

They could adjust the MIA-TPA-WAS schedule back by an hour at least without creating bad times at major points, creating a two hour dwell at WAS. No one says the schedule must be the same as the the current one.

If they do it, I would hope that they would have that change in Arrow. But knowing Amtrak.. wouldn't surprise me if they don't

 

[zephyr17]

If they do it, I would hope that they would have that change in Arrow. But knowing Amtrak.. wouldn't surprise me if they don't

They're pretty good about updating ARROW schedules, they've been doing a lot of it the last few years.
The risk isn't the getting the train's schedule itself right, the problem is they'll likely screw up the connections and that'll take some weeks to straighten out due to the terrible way connections have to be set up in ARROW.

They'll also have to make other permanent changes in ARROW, removing WAS-NYP rather than just blocking sales.

 

[railiner]

I’d guess that Amtrak is still delaying it’s decision whether to run it as a thru train, or separate trains, regardless of how the equipment is utilised…same day or overnite layover.
They may be weighing the better schedule reliability of two separate trains versus the marketing opportunities of more “one seat rides”. Which is offering a better return?
How many people will actually be taking advantage of the thru train?
They may be watching the on time performance of both current trains, to see if recent compliance enforcement of host railroads has improved…

 

[Willbridge]

I’d guess that Amtrak is still delaying it’s decision whether to run it as a thru train, or separate trains, regardless of how the equipment is utilised…same day or overnite layover.
They may be weighing the better schedule reliability of two separate trains versus the marketing opportunities of more “one seat rides”. Which is offering a better return?
How many people will actually be taking advantage of the thru train?
They may be watching the on time performance of both current trains, to see if recent compliance enforcement of host railroads has improved…

Yeah, if it's set up as a through train, every time there's a blizzard in Chicago, trains will be held in Miami. If there's a hurricane watch, trains will be held in Chicago.

 

[zephyr17]

I’d guess that Amtrak is still delaying it’s decision whether to run it as a thru train, or separate trains, regardless of how the equipment is utilised…same day or overnite layover.
They may be weighing the better schedule reliability of two separate trains versus the marketing opportunities of more “one seat rides”. Which is offering a better return?
How many people will actually be taking advantage of the thru train?
They may be watching the on time performance of both current trains, to see if recent compliance enforcement of host railroads has improved…

They also may be waiting until the operational details are all worked out for a decision already made. Those details could be quite involved, like negotiating revised schedules with host railroads, union negotiations about crew basing if there is through service with one crew, servicing details at WAS, etc, etc. They probably don't want to announce it until the operating plan is completely nailed down.

 

[jis]

Not sure if they're running it as one train though, but if they are yeah that'd work.


If they do it, I would hope that they would have that change in Arrow. But knowing Amtrak.. wouldn't surprise me if they don't

They will be running it as a through train through WAS with number 40 and 41. That is what I have heard from what I consider to be a reliable source.

Frankly there is not enough equipment available to have consists spend 24 hours in Ivy City. That is a complete non starter for many reasons.

 

[zephyr17]

They will be running it as a through train through WAS with number 40 and 41. That is what I have heard from what I consider to be a reliable source.

Frankly there is not enough equipment available to have consists spend 24 hours in Ivy City. That is a complete non starter for many reasons.

FYI, 40/41 are the Broadway's old numbers.

 

[west point]

Frankly there is not enough equipment available to have consists spend 24 hours in Ivy City. That is a complete non starter for many reasons.

That may be a real worry. What happens if some equipment is damaged in an incident between now and NOV? Amtrak may be cautious hoping nothing messes up equipment availability between now and Nov?

 

[Septa9739]

Do we have any indication what the consist might be? Currently the Star is:
2 Diesel Locomotives (8?)
4 Amfleet II coaches- 240 seats (16)
1 Cafe (4)
1 Dining Car (4)
2 Viewliner Sleepers 24-4-2-0 (8)
1 Baggage (4)

The Capitol seems to be:
2 Diesel Locomotives (6)
1 Viewliner Baggage (3)
2 Superliner Sleepers 28-10-2-2 (6)
1 CCC (3)
2 Superliner Coaches 144 seats (6)

It seems fairly obvious than that the Capitol’s coaches and Sleepers will go to add one service line to a western transcon. Several, increasingly troubled P42’s will also no longer be needed as the railroad switches to the ALC class. I think this is an excellent move. If simply a fifth Silver Star consist is made, the Capitol will see about a 70% increase in coach space, fixing another years’ long issue. The Capitol’s sleeper space will fall slightly with roomettes and about 60% with Bedrooms. If the consists are only three coaches, for 15 cars, one less than today, the Capitol will see a 28% increase in coach seats. It seems the coach Capitol passengers are winners either way. I think the ideal consist might look like this:

2 ALC 42’s (10) 4 less
4 Amfleet II coaches (20) 4 more
1 Amfleet II Cafe (5) 1 more
1 Viewliner Diner (5) 1 more
3 Viewliner Sleepers (15) 7 more
1 Viewliner Baggage (5) 2 less

There should be more than enough equipment floating around to do this, but we all know about Amtrak and willpower. Another thought might be to pull the Bag-Dorms off the Crescent and substitute full Sleepers (total 6 new sleepers in service) and Baggages (total 2 new baggages in service). This would put 8 of the 10 bag-dorms in regular service, affording a maintenance cushion, but no real protects, which should be no issue given the poor utilization of other Viewliner equipment.

 

[Charlie Seymour]

If Amtrak wants a suggestion for a CHI to MIA...

Perhaps. "Snow Bird" would be fitting...

Just a suggestion...

 

[jis]

Do we have any indication what the consist might be? Currently the Star is:
2 Diesel Locomotives (8?)
4 Amfleet II coaches- 240 seats (16)
1 Cafe (4)
1 Dining Car (4)
2 Viewliner Sleepers 24-4-2-0 (8)
1 Baggage (4)

The Capitol seems to be:
2 Diesel Locomotives (6)
1 Viewliner Baggage (3)
2 Superliner Sleepers 28-10-2-2 (6)
1 CCC (3)
2 Superliner Coaches 144 seats (6)

It seems fairly obvious than that the Capitol’s coaches and Sleepers will go to add one service line to a western transcon. Several, increasingly troubled P42’s will also no longer be needed as the railroad switches to the ALC class. I think this is an excellent move. If simply a fifth Silver Star consist is made, the Capitol will see about a 70% increase in coach space, fixing another years’ long issue. The Capitol’s sleeper space will fall slightly with roomettes and about 60% with Bedrooms. If the consists are only three coaches, for 15 cars, one less than today, the Capitol will see a 28% increase in coach seats. It seems the coach Capitol passengers are winners either way. I think the ideal consist might look like this:

2 ALC 42’s (10) 4 less
4 Amfleet II coaches (20) 4 more
1 Amfleet II Cafe (5) 1 more
1 Viewliner Diner (5) 1 more
3 Viewliner Sleepers (15) 7 more
1 Viewliner Baggage (5) 2 less

There should be more than enough equipment floating around to do this, but we all know about Amtrak and willpower. Another thought might be to pull the Bag-Dorms off the Crescent and substitute full Sleepers (total 6 new sleepers in service) and Baggages (total 2 new baggages in service). This would put 8 of the 10 bag-dorms in regular service, affording a maintenance cushion, but no real protects, which should be no issue given the poor utilization of other Viewliner equipment.

Your proposed ideal is pretty much what is planned, is my understanding. But of course as usual one never knows until the proverbial fat lady sings.

 

[JWM]

If Amtrak wants a suggestion for a CHI to MIA...

Perhaps. "Snow Bird" would be fitting...

Just a suggestion...

This Indianapolis native remembers taking the "South Wind" in winter when it was fifteen cars including a leased NCL Vista-Dome Sleeping Car. It left Chicago about 8:30 am and arrived in Miami about 5:00pm the next day. I question if anyone from Chicago will tolerate a two night out trip to Florida.

 

[Septa9739]

The next area I’d like to raise for consideration is schedule. 30 has arrived after 14:35 25 times in the last year, about 7% of the time. This will be no trouble.

The other direction however is a mess 92 has departed Washington after 16:05 162 times in the last year, 44% of the time. This will be disastrous, as many of these delays are many hours long and the consist has 10 hours in Chicago. 92 arrived after 16:35 74 times in the last 365 days, suggesting adding an hour to the layover at WAS would reduce delays through Washington by more than half, but still to a less than desirable 20% level. These problems also occur in spurts, suggesting working with CSX might help mitigate the issue. I really don’t love either option.

Data from ASMAD. I counted so I might be off a bit.

 

[DCAKen]

The Capitol seems to be:
2 Diesel Locomotives (6)
1 Viewliner Baggage (3)
2 Superliner Sleepers 28-10-2-2 (6)
1 CCC (3)
2 Superliner Coaches 144 seats (6)

The Capitol usually only has a single locomotive

 

[NEPATrainTraveler]

The next area I’d like to raise for consideration is schedule. 30 has arrived after 14:35 25 times in the last year, about 7% of the time. This will be no trouble.

The other direction however is a mess 92 has departed Washington after 16:05 162 times in the last year, 44% of the time. This will be disastrous, as many of these delays are many hours long and the consist has 10 hours in Chicago. 92 arrived after 16:35 74 times in the last 365 days, suggesting adding an hour to the layover at WAS would reduce delays through Washington by more than half, but still to a less than desirable 20% level. These problems also occur in spurts, suggesting working with CSX might help mitigate the issue. I really don’t love either option.

Data from ASMAD. I counted so I might be off a bit.

This is why I don’t see myself using the westbound Capitol after this Capitol-Star/Floridian train goes into effect, if it goes into effect.

 

[railiner]

They will be running it as a through train through WAS with number 40 and 41. That is what I have heard from what I consider to be a reliable source.

Frankly there is not enough equipment available to have consists spend 24 hours in Ivy City. That is a complete non starter for many reasons.

Will the thru train be considered an East-West, or a North-South train?
In other words, will #40 be a Chicago to Miami, or a Miami to Chicago, with #41 the other way?
On most railways in “diagonal” compass directions, timetable direction favours East-West, but not always…

 

[zephyr17]

Will the thru train be considered an East-West, or a North-South train?
In other words, will #40 be a Chicago to Miami, or a Miami to Chicago, with #41 the other way?
On most railways in “diagonal” compass directions, timetable direction favours East-West, but not always…

Well, in most Amtrak train numbering, West/South is odd, and East/North is even. Surfliners are a notable exception with southbound even and northbound odd. That is probably a holdover from Santa Fe days and reflects San Diegan numbering, with a train heading towards San Diego considered railroad east.

For what it's worth, the Floridian was treated as East/West, with 52 Chicago-Miami and 53 Miami-Chicago.

Personally, I think the train has more of a North/South character. Miami is a lot further south of Chicago than it is east of Chicago. Railroad traditions don't have a lot of influence on today's Amtrak, and the host railroads do not now care how Amtrak numbers its trains. Nor, frankly, does the average passenger, probably few are aware of Amtrak's numbering pattern at all.