New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC

[joelkfla]

Will the thru train be considered an East-West, or a North-South train?
In other words, will #40 be a Chicago to Miami, or a Miami to Chicago, with #41 the other way?
On most railways in “diagonal” compass directions, timetable direction favours East-West, but not always…

Chicago is approximately 1,100 mi N of MIA, and less than 400 mi W of it. Even from WAS, it's about 200 mi N. It would seem that N-S would be more logical.

 

[Cal]

Surfliners are a notable exception with southbound even and northbound odd. That is probably a holdover from Santa Fe days and reflects San Diegan numbering, with a train heading towards San Diego considered railroad east.

(Off topic, sorry) I love the history bit here, but it drives me nuts that evens are southbounds.

 

[west point]

Posters do not worry about CHI <> MIA riders. There will be many riders from TOL ( ) plus drivers from Detroit & north: As well Cleveland, and Buffalo. Here is copy of SOU RR's Royal Palm that had many passenger from there to Florida. Intermediate Passengers to Carolinas and Florida will fill out the Florida train.

http://streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

This is why I don’t see myself using the westbound Capitol after this Capitol-Star/Floridian train goes into effect, if it goes into effect.

Just another reason to make the Cardinal daily! And improve the Lakeshore Limited.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Posters do not worry about CHI <> MIA riders. There will be many riders from TOL ( ) plus drivers from Detroit & north: As well Cleveland, and Buffalo. Here is copy of SOU RR's Royal Palm that had many passenger from there to Florida. Intermediate Passengers to Carolinas and Florida will fill out the Florida train.

http://streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html

Wow. A sleeper from a connecting train arriving in Cincinnati at 7:30 AM to be switched into the Florida train leaving at 8 AM. Railroading like that seems to be a lost art at least in this country.

 

[Septa9739]

I think the art is still there. It’s a question of priorities. As an industry the railroads have simply put their efforts into embargoing branch lines, ripping up multiple track mains, and chasing records for the longest train in history. If the Class I’s really wanted things to run well, they would, and there would be no discussion of two hour layovers in WAS.

 

[Amtrak25]

I read somewhere over a week ago that there will be one day lag in Washington from 92 to 29 in equipment run through.

Cardinal takes about 7 or 8 hours longer longer than the Capitol. That is not an option for anyone but endpoint railfans and not with 2 coaches, which they have no intention of improving upon.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Seems to me this idea of a Chicago-Florida train via Washington DC is a futile effort to create a substitute for a revived Floridian. It has never worked and won't work now. It's just too far out of the way. The only solution to the Midwest-Florida problem is a revived Floridian running through Atlanta. With all the official emphasis on preventing Amtrak expansion, though, there's basically no chance of that ever happening.


Sorry. Forgot to say that the real benefit of this plan is better equipment utilization and freeing up Superliners desperately needed in the West. Unfortunately, though, with all of the general railroad unreliability now and the resulting delays, I think two additional low-level trainsets are going to be needed

 

[John Santos]

Seems to me this idea of a Chicago-Florida train via Washington DC is a futile effort to create a substitute for a revived Floridian. It has never worked and won't work now. It's just too far out of the way. The only solution to the Midwest-Florida problem is a revived Floridian running through Atlanta. With all the official emphasis on preventing Amtrak expansion, though, there's basically no chance of that ever happening.

As I understand it, the more direct routes from Chicago to Florida, via Cincinnati, Kentucky and through eastern Tennessee (Nashville or Knoxville) to Atlanta are in very bad shape and very twisty and indirect that it would be much slower than the better maintained route of the Cap and the Silvers, which already have passenger infrastructure (stations and platforms and places for any needed servicing.) It would cost many millions, possibly billions to upgrade the tracks along any of the Atlanta routes to even 60 mph, let alone near high speed rail, and the routes are so convoluted, the times would still be dreadful.

The rumored Chicago<->Florida service is just a matter of scheduling, no construction required.

Maybe if successful, a more direct route could be pieced together from various future corridor expansions and upgrades (Ohio's Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati service, Atlanta commuter rail to the north, etc.) because the corridor projects would have filled in and upgraded some of the gaps.

The idea of 24 hour + layover in Washington makes no sense at all. If that were the plan, they could just change the Cap from Superliners to Viewliners/Amfleet on the existing schedule, and move the Superliners to the western trains. No fuss, no bother, and no reason for AU to get involved except the traditional second-guessing of everything Amtrak does.

 

[Maverickstation]

Some background information on the former Amtrak, Floridian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floridian_(train)

 

[zephyr17]

Seems to me this idea of a Chicago-Florida train via Washington DC is a futile effort to create a substitute for a revived Floridian.

It's really not. It is an effort to improve equipment utilization and free up Superliners to be used on Western trains where they are badly needed. Creating a one seat, though long, ride between Chicago and Florida is a side effect, not the reason. I agree with others that there probably won't be a lot of Midwest to Florida riders on it, but that isn't the point. Most travel will probably be similar to current travel patterns on the separate Cap and Star. I think that is what Amtrak hopes for, that they don't lose a lot of riders in their pursuit of better equipment utilization, not a to get a big gain in the Midwest-Florida market.

Thinking it is the other way around, that equipment utilization is the side effect, would be the tail wagging the dog.

 

[Cal]

I think two additional low-level trainsets are going to be needed

I think(?) that there are a lot more viewliners around than superliners.

Although I do always see tons of Superliners in the LA yards when I pass that don't seem to be part of any main trainset. I wonder what they're doing.

 

[jis]

I think(?) that there are a lot more viewliners around than superliners.

Although I do always see tons of Superliners in the LA yards when I pass that don't seem to be part of any main trainset. I wonder what they're doing.

One can think whatever one wants to, but actually only one additional set will be needed.

 

[Cal]

One can think whatever one wants to, but actually only one additional set will be needed.

Even better. I was just saying that because I think (not sure though) it's easier to make a new set of Viewliners than superliners, as Superliners are in far more limited supply than Viewliners are.

 

[zephyr17]

Although I do always see tons of Superliners in the LA yards when I pass that don't seem to be part of any main trainset. I wonder what they're doing

At least they're not at Beech Grove, so that gives one hope.

8th St has the capability to do fairly heavy maintenance, repair and inspection. It's the main maintenance point on the West Coast. They could be in line for scheduled maintenance/inspection.

 

[JP1822]

Amtrak has excess Viewliners that it doesn't have assigned and has stored.

- 36 Viewliner Sleepers are unassigned to single level LD overnight consists (48% not assigned)
- 15 Viewliner Diners are unassigned to single level LD overnight consists (42% not assigned)
- 4 Viewliner Bagg-Dorms are unassigned to single level LD overnight consists (40% not assigned)

And soon with the Crescent losing its second Viewliner Sleeper, you are looking at even more Viewliner Sleepers not assigned to service - up to 52%. That's atrocious. The Viewliner fleet is heavily under utilized.

There's enough Viewliner Diners and Viewliner Sleepers to create two one more consist that's needed for a Capitol-Star / Floridian combination. But the Amfleet II's are often in short supply, even though Amtrak could use Amfleet I business class cars or Amfleet I low density cars. And as I think I've mentioned, the Capitol-Star / Floridian needs to have THREE Viewliner Sleepers in each consist, not just two sleepers as three Viewliner Sleepers barely = capacity of two Superliner Sleepers.....so there's no room for growing capacity off this opportunity.

 

[Septa9739]

A proposed (by me, a nobody) 47 hour schedule from Chicago to Miami via Washington and Raleigh, assumes two hours at WAS to facilitate better departures at WAS, assist timekeeping, and allow for inspections (1,000 mile and daily?). Obviously improves utilization, and is only 8 hours longer than the Floridan.

18:40	Chicago	8:45
21:09	South Bend	7:51
21:29	Elkhart	7:29
22:23	Waterloo	6:36
23:39	Toledo	5:22
23:49	Depart	5:08
0:40	Sandusky	4:02
1:15	Elyria	3:29
1:45	Cleveland	2:59
1:54	Depart	2:53
3:05	Alliance	1:39
5:05	Pittsburgh	23:59
5:20	Depart	23:48
6:59	Connellesville	21:47
9:20	Cumberland	19:24
9:32	Depart	19:17
11:01	Martinsburg	17:45
11:31	Harper's Ferry	17:16
12:16	Rockville	16:29
13:05	Washington	16:05
15:05	Depart	14:04
15:25	Alexandria	13:27
17:13	Richmond	11:39
17:23	Depart	11:30
17:59	Petersburg	10:51
19:29	Rocky Mount	9:23
20:57	Raleigh	8:04
21:10	Depart	7:53
21:22	Cary	7:20
22:32	Depart	7:11
22:45	Southern Pines	6:04
23:29	Hamlet	5:24
0:58	Camden	3:50
1:41	Columbia	3:09
1:49	Depart	3:00
2:46	Denmark	1:53
4:32	Savannah	0:30
4:37	Depart	0:24
7:06	Jacksonville	22:04
7:26	Depart	21:44
8:29	Palatka	20:14
9:23	Deland	19:24
10:05	Winter Park	18:42
10:10	Depart	18:40
10:33	Orlando	18:25
10:47	Depart	18:09
11:06	Kissimmee	17:41
11:11	Depart	17:38
12:06	Lakeland	16:56
12:55	Tampa	16:20
13:09	Depart	16:06
13:45	Lakeland	15:11
14:05	Winter Haven	14:31
14:07	Depart	14:29
14:48	Sebring	13:45
15:29	Okeechobee	13:09
16:57	West Palm Beach	12:10
17:19	Delray Beach	11:48
17:32	Deerfield Beach	11:35
17:57	Ft. Lauderdale	11:18
18:12	Hollywood	11:04
18:35	Miami Hialeah	10:40

 

[jiml]

Seems to me this idea of a Chicago-Florida train via Washington DC is a futile effort to create a substitute for a revived Floridian. It has never worked and won't work now. It's just too far out of the way. The only solution to the Midwest-Florida problem is a revived Floridian running through Atlanta. With all the official emphasis on preventing Amtrak expansion, though, there's basically no chance of that ever happening.

For many years Amtrak and predecessor railroads ran Midwest - Florida services on much the same route being discussed. Both the Capitol and Broadway Limiteds often featured through sleepers to the Silver services. This is a restoration of what once was, rather than some workaround that replaces the Floridian. The service was well-patronized and coexisted with the Floridian of the day, and there is no reason why that couldn't be the case again should the latter ever be restored.

 

[Harmon Shay]

A proposed (by me, a nobody) 47 hour schedule from Chicago to Miami via Washington and Raleigh, assumes two hours at WAS to facilitate better departures at WAS, assist timekeeping, and allow for inspections (1,000 mile and daily?). Obviously improves utilization, and is only 8 hours longer than the Floridan.

18:40	Chicago	8:45
21:09	South Bend	7:51
21:29	Elkhart	7:29
22:23	Waterloo	6:36
23:39	Toledo	5:22
23:49	Depart	5:08
0:40	Sandusky	4:02
1:15	Elyria	3:29
1:45	Cleveland	2:59
1:54	Depart	2:53
3:05	Alliance	1:39
5:05	Pittsburgh	23:59
5:20	Depart	23:48
6:59	Connellesville	21:47
9:20	Cumberland	19:24
9:32	Depart	19:17
11:01	Martinsburg	17:45
11:31	Harper's Ferry	17:16
12:16	Rockville	16:29
13:05	Washington	16:05
15:05	Depart	14:04
15:25	Alexandria	13:27
17:13	Richmond	11:39
17:23	Depart	11:30
17:59	Petersburg	10:51
19:29	Rocky Mount	9:23
20:57	Raleigh	8:04
21:10	Depart	7:53
21:22	Cary	7:20
22:32	Depart	7:11
22:45	Southern Pines	6:04
23:29	Hamlet	5:24
0:58	Camden	3:50
1:41	Columbia	3:09
1:49	Depart	3:00
2:46	Denmark	1:53
4:32	Savannah	0:30
4:37	Depart	0:24
7:06	Jacksonville	22:04
7:26	Depart	21:44
8:29	Palatka	20:14
9:23	Deland	19:24
10:05	Winter Park	18:42
10:10	Depart	18:40
10:33	Orlando	18:25
10:47	Depart	18:09
11:06	Kissimmee	17:41
11:11	Depart	17:38
12:06	Lakeland	16:56
12:55	Tampa	16:20
13:09	Depart	16:06
13:45	Lakeland	15:11
14:05	Winter Haven	14:31
14:07	Depart	14:29
14:48	Sebring	13:45
15:29	Okeechobee	13:09
16:57	West Palm Beach	12:10
17:19	Delray Beach	11:48
17:32	Deerfield Beach	11:35
17:57	Ft. Lauderdale	11:18
18:12	Hollywood	11:04
18:35	Miami Hialeah	10:40

You read my mind on that schedule proposal! I thought that if Amtrak could arrange at least a two-hour dwell time in DC, that might give it at least a fighting chance of keeping the new Miami-Chicago train mostly on time while keeping the need for only one additional Amfleet II-Viewliner trainset. And with the Trains.com report that the Meteor and Star are each going back to three coaches in September, that should be a doable. Of course, extra sets are still needed in Chicago and Miami to protect against late end-point departures, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

 

[frequentflyer]

Do not know why some think this may not be a hit with Midwesterners to Florida. They never had a through train before, and no the thru car to the Silver Star 30 years ago do not count.

 

[west point]

Do not know why some think this may not be a hit with Midwesterners to Florida. They never had a through train before, and no the thru car to the Silver Star 30 years ago do not count.

The potential riders from Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, & connections from Buffalo are all potential customers that have not had a thru train / sleepers since days of the Royal Palm.

 

[Bonser]

They could adjust the MIA-TPA-WAS schedule back by an hour at least without creating bad times at major points, creating a two hour dwell at WAS. No one says the schedule must be the same as the the current one.

I just hope that it’s on time performance is better than the Texas Eagle.

 

[user 1215]

Heck, I’ve been waiting 30 years for the Crescent Star. I’m 52. There will not be a significant new interstate Amtrak route in my lifetime.

 

[39kartma]

I have attached a couple of screenshots from a 1964 Southern Railway timetable that show the condensed schedules for the Ponce de Leon and Royal Palm on the route between Cincinnati, OH and Jacksonville, FL.

 

[Steve4031]

I don’t think a train can sit in Washington, DC for 2 hours each day. It would block the regionals going to and from points south.