New York Penn Station v3.0

[Barb Stout]

Makes me want to put on some music and dance in that big space.

 

[MARC Rider]

Not quite V3.0, but thought I'd post a few photos of the old Penn Station that I took a couple of weeks back:

View attachment 28523

Note that there is still a billboard up advertising the AGR BOA credit card, even though it is no longer being offered. I noticed that when I passed through the same place back in February.

 

[daybeers]

Note that there is still a billboard up advertising the AGR BOA credit card, even though it is no longer being offered. I noticed that when I passed through the same place back in February.

oh, Amtrak...

 

[MARC Rider]

oh, Amtrak...

It could also just mean that nobody's buying billboard space in that part of Penn Station anymore...

 

[PaTrainFan]

It could also just mean that nobody's buying billboard space in that part of Penn Station anymore...

Also, Amtrak doesn't buy billboard advertising, its agency would so it is their responsibility to see that it's up to date. Nevertheless, you'd think someone at Amtrak would have pointed it out to the agency.

 

[daybeers]

It could also just mean that nobody's buying billboard space in that part of Penn Station anymore...

Well at least don't advertise a product that's no longer offered.

 

[jis]

Finally some actual movement towards finalizing plans for Penn Station redevelopment spearheaded by Governor Hochul...

https://longisland.news12.com/gov-h...o-transform-penn-station-into-world-class-hub
This is about the old Penn Station and does not involve anything further on the west side of 8th Ave.

 

[Chatter163]

So why does a local news story such as this make absolutely no reference to Moynihan Train Hall, especially since the LIR figures so prominently into the story as presented?

 

[jis]

So why does a local news story such as this make absolutely no reference to Moynihan Train Hall, especially since the LIR figures so prominently into the story as presented?

Because it has nothing to do with Moynihan Train Hall? All that it could legitimately say is this is not about the Moynihan Train Hall, but that would be sort of pointless.

Anyway here is another report on it, one that even mentions Moynihan Train Hall

https://www.progressiverailroading....ce=prdailynews&utm_campaign=prnewsletter-2022
Incidentally a preponderance of users of LIRR do so via LIRR's main concourse which is in the old Penn Station, and not from MTH.

 

[Chatter163]

Because it has nothing to do with Moynihan Train Hall? All that it could legitimately say is this is not about the Moynihan Train Hall, but that would be sort of pointless.

Anyway here is another report on it, one that even mentions Moynihan Train Hall

https://www.progressiverailroading....ce=prdailynews&utm_campaign=prnewsletter-2022
Incidentally a preponderance of users of LIRR do so via LIRR's main concourse which is in the old Penn Station, and not from MTH.

But how can a news report talk about how Penn Station has needed remodeling since the destruction of the original station nearly sixty years ago, and include quick statements from a variety of current-day passengers, some of whom are identified as LIR passengers, and not even mention that a major step was taken to relieve overcrowding when Moynihan opened last year? That’s hardly giving a thorough and accurate summation of the story, especially when they make such a major point about getting natural light into the station, which is a conspicuous feature of Moynihan. More informative reporting could use several angles, including that LIR passengers find Moynihan to be too far from subway connections, so they continue to use the older Penn side of the platforms. But to completely ignore such a major recent development in the Penn Station saga seems a bit political to me.

 

[jis]

But how can a news report talk about how Penn Station has needed remodeling since the destruction of the original station nearly sixty years ago, and include quick statements from a variety of current-day passengers, some of whom are identified as LIR passengers, and not even mention that a major step was taken to relieve overcrowding when Moynihan opened last year? That’s hardly giving a thorough and accurate summation of the story, especially when they make such a major point about getting natural light into the station, which is a conspicuous feature of Moynihan. More informative reporting could use several angles, including that LIR passengers find Moynihan to be too far from subway connections, so they continue to use the older Penn side of the platforms. But to completely ignore such a major recent development in the Penn Station saga seems a bit political to me.

LIRR passengers in general do not use MTH. Until one internalizes that simple fact one will never understand why local news outfits are not prone to catch LIRR passengers for comment in MTH. That is just the reality. The reason for that is the MTH is far from the transit hub around 6th and 7th Ave and 34th St. Basically it is served only by the 8th Ave Subway. Even for those coming in on 8th Ave Subway, trying to get to an LIRR train via MTH is a significant detour. It is much shorter to go through the old Penn Station. MTH is useful mostly for people coming in from the new developments on the west side or coming by taxi/Uber etc. Not many LIRR passengers do that.

Again, the story is about redevelopment of Penn Station. It is not about MTH. But if one wants to fume about it that is fine too I suppose

 

[user 14106]

All very true - MTH is mainly for the intercity Amtrak passengers and those who need to wait at a station for an extended period. MTH is related in that it’s existence supporting intercity passengers who generally spend more time in the station than a commuter passenger allows areas of the old Penn station to close for this work as MTH offers passengers an alternative place to go.

 

[Chatter163]

LIRR passengers in general do not use MTH. Until one internalizes that simple fact one will never understand why local news outfits are not prone to catch LIRR passengers for comment in MTH. That is just the reality. The reason for that is the MTH is far from the transit hub around 6th and 7th Ave and 34th St. Basically it is served only by the 8th Ave Subway. Even for those coming in on 8th Ave Subway, trying to get to an LIRR train via MTH is a significant detour. It is much shorter to go through the old Penn Station. MTH is useful mostly for people coming in from the new developments on the west side or coming by taxi/Uber etc. Not many LIRR passengers do that.

Again, the story is about redevelopment of Penn Station. It is not about MTH. But if one wants to fume about it that is fine too I suppose

Your last comment confuses me. My last post fully recognizes the distance from The 7th Avenue subway from MTH, and the fact that few LIR passengers use MTH for that very reason. Yet, you explain that to me as if I hadn’t essentially just said that, and even instruct me to internalize it, as if I were obtuse. And you explain why local news doesn’t interview LIR passengers in MTH, when I never suggested that they would find said passengers there. I was trying to point out how a common theme could tie both parts of NYP together for the report. You ignored my point about natural light, too.

Is it such a stretch to expect that a report on such a comprehensive plan, which will impact several surrounding buildings, too, would actually mention the recent and major changes, which certainly must be taken into account while developing the plan? Amtrak is never once mentioned, nor the fact that the MTH opening did address the natural light issue, which may prove more challenging on the east side of 8th Avenue, because of MSG sitting atop the station.

 

[jis]

Of course none of this is a done deal. It is yet to be settled as to where the $6-$7 Billion is going to come from for the t entire shebang, which includes beyond rebuilding Penn Station, additional development of rateable property to supposedly pay for the whole thing. A good article was published in NY Times a month back on that subject.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/09/nyregion/penn-station-revitalization-taxes.html

 

[jis]

Your last comment confuses me. My last post fully recognizes the distance from The 7th Avenue subway from MTH, and the fact that few LIR passengers use MTH for that very reason. Yet, you explain that to me as if I hadn’t essentially just said that, and even instruct me to internalize it, as if I were obtuse. And you explain why local news doesn’t interview LIR passengers in MTH, when I never suggested that they would find said passengers there. I was trying to point out how a common theme could tie both parts of NYP together for the report. You ignored my point about natural light, too.

Is it such a stretch to expect that a report on such a comprehensive plan, which will impact several surrounding buildings, too, would actually mention the recent and major changes, which certainly must be taken into account while developing the plan? Amtrak is never once mentioned, nor the fact that the MTH opening did address the natural light issue, which may prove more challenging on the east side of 8th Avenue, because of MSG sitting atop the station.

I am sorry for any misunderstanding and I apologize. If possible I would like to acknowledge that while I don't see the importance of covering MTH in an article on Penn Station redevelopment, you have every right to feel the way you do, and I was perhaps too focused on what I was talking about which was different from what you wanted to talk about. So now if we can bring this to a close we can focus back on the development project.

 

[jis]

Now here is the take on the June 9 announcement from across the river in NJ:

https://njbiz.com/nj-ny-announce-major-step-toward-penn-station-modernization/
It should be noted that NJT has very little access to MTH, and no visible presence there. So much so that NJT trains are carefully not even announced or placed on the departure boards there, the last time I looked.

 

[jis]

One more article, this time from Railway Age:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenge...m_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=33087

 

[jis]

Funding agreement reached for funding NY Penn Station improvements

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/new-york-state-city-agree-on-penn-station-funding-framework/

 

[Amtrak25]

I lIke the rebuilding plan. I'd like it better if they'd bulldoze MSG, but that is beyond our scope.

 

[jis]

Another article on the Penn Station redevelopment agreement...

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...tation/3779035/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand

 

[Amtrak25]

Now there's a WSJ article or op-ed:

"Bring Back the Old Penn Station"
European cities have rebuilt many of their destroyed architectural monuments. Why can’t New York do the same?
By James Gardner

 

[railiner]

Now here is the take on the June 9 announcement from across the river in NJ:

https://njbiz.com/nj-ny-announce-major-step-toward-penn-station-modernization/
It should be noted that NJT has very little access to MTH, and no visible presence there. So much so that NJT trains are carefully not even announced or placed on the departure boards there, the last time I looked.

This got my curiosity...when I worked at Penn Station, between 1989 and 1994, we used to announce (and post on the Solari Board), both Amtrak and NJT trains. How is this done now? Does NJT do it themselves, as the LIRR has always done in their concourse? Or does Amtrak make separate announcements and posts in each part of the station? That would take a lot of extra work...

 

[Amtrak25]

In legacy Penn Station, both railroads are posted. In the Exit concourse, there are 2 LCD monitors side-by-side - one has NJT only, one has Amtrak+NJT . They must be hooked up to 2 different systems.

Moynihan has no access to Tracks 1 - 4, where most NJT trains are.

Track 17 - 21 can only be accessed via the LIRR West End Concourse, a reason why few LIRR passengers go there. LIRR trains tend to arrive on track 20-21, and tend to depart mostly from 17-19, except rush hours. Why go west to Moynihan only to go east to board the train.

 

[MisterUptempo]

Penn Station slowly, but surely, changing for the better.

From twiter.com-

 

[zephyr17]

Penn Station slowly, but surely, changing for the better.

From twiter.com-

Well, that's good. When I was there last November the whole LIRR level was a godawful, under construction.