No Business Class on the Coast Starlight

[Willbridge]

This discussion is regarding the coast starlight buisness class, a train which had its own dedicated buisness class car in ADDITION to the sightseer lounge and Coach/sleeper/dining cars. A much different operation than LSL buisness class when it was still around.

I've made half a dozen trips on the CS in Business Class and only on one trip was it necessary to share a seat. That was Dunsmuir to Klamath Falls when Oregon Tech (or whatever its name is now) was resuming classes and coach space was sold out. Though not guaranteed, sleeping was easier with the car quieter and the two seats and the short walk to the diner or lounge. I'm used to regular coach travel and long-distance bus travel but was pleased with BC (those were all trips where I had access to the diner).

With my transportation planning/marketing hat on, I did wonder whether it was wise to offer "Business" Class on Train 11 south of Sacramento and on Train 14 north of Eugene with the poor schedule adherence. That could drag down the regional trains' demand. And I found myself hoping that it was covering its costs.

 

[Fenway]

I took the CS from Van Nuys to Oakland today in business class. Somehow I got a free hot dog and coke in the cafe.

14 was terminating in Sacramento because of the weather but otherwise, it was an uneventful trip. I was staying with a friend in Encino after the Bruins game in LA and getting to Van Nuys was painless.

 

[JP1822]

To reduce Amtrak's losses, it's not a cost problem Amtrak has, it is a revenue problem. Lets say all cars in Hialeah, Chicago, Beech Grove, Bear, Wilmington, etc. got fixed and repaired and made to serviceable condition. Amtrak has NEVER done a deep analysis to figure out the overall function and revenue opportunity it may have with

- food service (be it traditional dining, cafe service, or some other hybrid).
- accommodation service (sleeper, coach, business class, or creating a "touring class" or slumber coach option that may look more like the first class airplane sleeper pods.
- amenities/other support service offering (observation car, onboard experience enhancements).
- add-on and upcharges that could be sold as part of the travel experience to garner more revenue.

I believe Brian Rosenwald was on to something when creating the Pacific Parlor Car (to grow the Coast Starlight revenue) and even Gunn when he was trying to launch "enhanced" service on the Empire Builder. Don't get me wrong, still need basic coach service, and not saying to create a private rail car experience either. But there's elements to both that could be borrowed to at least grow revenue without creating a cost burden.

They've never looked to ensure a standardization of sorts between the various train lines (e.g. NEC, LD, State Supported trains). And trains need different offerings between NEC and LD, etc. I think it is silly to even say the Coast Starlight has a "business class car." Are business folks really the clientele as the name implies? It's a misnomer. Custom Class, Touring Class, Premium Coach, or something else would perhaps make sense, especially to the first time rider who has no context.

Not saying it's required, just saying it would help to strengthen the Amtrak brand and revenue opportunities its missing out. Claytor and Gunn I think said it best - you lower your losses by growing top line revenue. Starving the trains by cost cutting over the years has not elevated the overall service nor made Amtrak a more attractive transportation option. Amtrak teeters on being a bus service on wheels at times.......Its not sustainable. With business travel being transformed as a result of the pandemic, Amtrak is going to have a new set of marketing challenges to attract passengers to its Acela brand in the coming years (even with new equipment to be deployed - next year, this year???).

 

[trimetbusfan]

From the looks of the booking system, it looks like they have pushed back the date to restore business class by a few months. Previously, it was in March. Now, it’s in May.

The first trains to supposedly run with a business class again will be
14 LAX-SEA originating 5/22
11 SEA-LAX originating 5/24

 

[trimetbusfan]

I also want to note that in the mean time, almost every set on the starlight (if not every set) tends to run one of the (previously) business class cars as the ‘1111’/‘1411’ Coach car.

So from an operational standpoint they actually removed one of the Coach cars and replaced it with a business class car during this time.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I also want to note that in the mean time, almost every set on the starlight (if not every set) tends to run one of the (previously) business class cars as the ‘1111’/‘1411’ Coach car.

So from an operational standpoint they actually removed one of the Coach cars and replaced it with a business class car during this time.

Yes, when I rode the starlight I enjoyed getting to ride in the business class car with the leather seats for the short time I wasn’t in the lounge. Was a pleasant surprise.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Yes, when I rode the starlight I enjoyed getting to ride in the business class car with the leather seats for the short time I wasn’t in the lounge. Was a pleasant surprise.

Yeah, I got a ‘free upgrade’ yesterday on 11 too. I don’t think many would complain about that!

 

[bmjhagen9426]

...That was Dunsmuir to Klamath Falls when Oregon Tech (or whatever its name is now) was resuming classes...

You're sort of right with that name. They call it Oregon Tech, but they use that name for marketing purposes only. On paper, it is known as Oregon Institute of Technology.
Source: I was a student there for 5 years.
I also can attest to the fact that the coaches were full, and business class were loaded at the start and end of term, holiday weekend, and Thanksgiving. Most of them went to Portland or Northern California (Sacramento area or East Bay), while some students went as far as LA or Seattle/Tacoma. Some students (and faculty/staff) even used it on random weekends or some during the week. It is better to travel business or sleeper during these times, if you can get it. When I traveled out of or into KFalls, I opted for business class whenever possible (available and affordable)

 

[Willbridge]

You're sort of right with that name. They call it Oregon Tech, but they use that name for marketing purposes only. On paper, it is known as Oregon Institute of Technology.
Source: I was a student there for 5 years.
I also can attest to the fact that the coaches were full, and business class were loaded at the start and end of term, holiday weekend, and Thanksgiving. Most of them went to Portland or Northern California (Sacramento area or East Bay), while some students went as far as LA or Seattle/Tacoma. Some students (and faculty/staff) even used it on random weekends or some during the week. It is better to travel business or sleeper during these times, if you can get it. When I traveled out of or into KFalls, I opted for business class whenever possible (available and affordable)

Thanx. You helped fill out a better picture of what has been going on in recent years. Other than passing through on Trains 11/14 I haven't been in K. Falls since the years 1973-76 with ODOT, I was up at the campus working out the original city bus service.

For readers unfamiliar with why college students would pay Business Class fares, Klamath Falls is a good example of a city that is not on an Interstate, and that killed Greyhound and Trailways once good service. Amtrak is a big deal there and if coaches are full, traffic spills up to Business Class rather than down to a bus service.

 

[trimetbusfan]

It seems as if business class is no longer available on the starlight indefinitely…

Just checked several dates, and even 11 months out there is no option for business class now.

 

[rs9]

It seems as if business class is no longer available on the starlight indefinitely…

Just checked several dates, and even 11 months out there is no option for business class now.

This seems symptomatic of a broader Amtrak issue regarding long distance business class. There might be a good reason for the continued removal of the service, but Amtrak acts like they don't have business class customers who might want to know what's going on.

 

[Sidney]

This seems symptomatic of a broader Amtrak issue regarding long distance business class. There might be a good reason for the continued removal of the service, but Amtrak acts like they don't have business class customers who might want to know what's going on.

Why did Amtrak remove BC from the Starlight? It was a happy medium between the overcrowded Coach and ridiculously expensive sleepers. I am sure there is no logical explanation

 

[desertflyer]

From what I can tell, it's because of the active Superliner shortage that's been plaguing all of the western trains with operational frustrations.

 

[zephyr17]

I am sure there is no logical explanation

It's Amtrak. "Logical explanation" would be an oxymoron.

 

[Herb]

I was looking ahead and saw that business class is no longer available on the starlight between 1/3 and 3/6?

Those dates are for train 14 originating from LA. For the southbound train 11 originating in Seattle, that time frame would be 1/5 thru 3/8 for 11. Has anyone else know anything about this?

I just tried booking a business class seat in April, May, June and July. All that was available was coach and sleeper.
I’ve been riding AMTRAK since they started. I live on the Coast Starlight Route and have seen it go thru much changes. With the exception of the introduction of business class, all the changes have been down grades. The loss of the Pacific Parlor cars was the biggest disappointment! They were only for the Sleeper passengers and it really felt FIRST CLASS. BTW I have traveled FIRST CLASS on DB in Germany, so I can compare. With the loss of the Business Class car, the Coast Starlight is providing less service!

 

[Herb]

The lake swapped its split car for a full cafe car, which is probably much more useful for the train than BC. BC is not that much of a step up from coach on a LD train, it doesn't provide better seating, you may gain some privacy or segregation from general population, but not always. BC was tried on the Crescent and failed to sell well enough to stay,

I book BC on the. CS when it started. There was Wifi, two bottles of water a pillow and a $6 voucher to use that trip in the dinning car or cafe. Since then they have dropped all of those FIRST CLASS features. The car was not crowded but there were plenty of people in the car. The las time I took BC was from Dunsmuir to San Jose last fall. It was basically a coach experience. And it was full. Amtrak operated in its own vacuum. We are actually the stock holders, as it’s a Federal semi-agency. It’s really too bad cause it could be much better.

 

[TracyM]

I just tried booking a business class seat in April, May, June and July. All that was available was coach and sleeper.
I’ve been riding AMTRAK since they started. I live on the Coast Starlight Route and have seen it go thru much changes. With the exception of the introduction of business class, all the changes have been down grades. The loss of the Pacific Parlor cars was the biggest disappointment! They were only for the Sleeper passengers and it really felt FIRST CLASS. BTW I have traveled FIRST CLASS on DB in Germany, so I can compare. With the loss of the Business Class car, the Coast Starlight is providing less service!

I have a business class seat booked on 6/19 from LA to SEA. Maybe no other ones are available?

 

[trimetbusfan]

I have a business class seat booked on 6/19 from LA to SEA. Maybe no other ones are available?

You probably booked it before they removed it. But I am guessing it is not available because even if it were on the consist and sold out it would say 'sold out', not nothing at all.

When this happens an agent has to 'fix' your reservation. My guess is they will notify you a few weeks before the trip and downgrade you to a coach seat. But you are really curious, I guess you could call them ask.

 

[zephyr17]

I have a business class seat booked on 6/19 from LA to SEA. Maybe no other ones are available?

Check to see if you still have a QR on the app for it. If it no longer has one, you'll have to call to get rebooked.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

I’m in no way standing up for management. I think they’re as incompetent as they come. But maybe since the coach passenger dining pilot program that used the business class is over they felt business class is no longer needed. Has anyone seen the Winter park coaches in active service or have they been parked? Those if I’m not mistaken were the business class cars in question.

 

[trimetbusfan]

I’m in no way standing up for management. I think they’re as incompetent as they come. But maybe since the coach passenger dining pilot program that used the business class is over they felt business class is no longer needed. Has anyone seen the Winter park coaches in active service or have they been parked? Those if I’m not mistaken were the business class cars in question.

They weren’t directly using that equipment for the ski train. (From what I saw online, they did not use the cars with the distinct red business class seating).

Most of the business class cars are still on some (but not all) of the starlight sets, but are being used as Coach cars.

 

[rogerVarland]

I have a business class seat booked on 6/19 from LA to SEA. Maybe no other ones are available?

I have BC booked LAX - SNS on 6/8, but it can't be booked on the website. Assuming I'll be downgraded at some point.

 

[zephyr17]

I have BC booked LAX - SNS on 6/8, but it can't be booked on the website. Assuming I'll be downgraded at some point.

They haven't been good about sending downgrade notifications in a timely manner the last couple years.

Check the app, if the QR code shows, you're okay for now (or they already did the downgrade and haven't emailed you about it yet). If it does not show, your reservation is in limbo, semi-cancelled, and you need to call.

 

[TracyM]

You probably booked it before they removed it. But I am guessing it is not available because even if it were on the consist and sold out it would say 'sold out', not nothing at all.

When this happens an agent has to 'fix' your reservation. My guess is they will notify you a few weeks before the trip and downgrade you to a coach seat. But you are really curious, I guess you could call them ask.

Just confirmed today that their is no business class on the Starlight from LAX-SEA. I upgraded to a roomette at a discounted rate.

 

[Sidney]

Just confirmed today that there is no business class on the Starlight from LAX-SEA. I upgraded to a roomette at a discounted rate.

BC was a nice bridge on the CS between always busy Coach and the outrageously priced roomettes. WHY did Amtrak remove it?