OH I Wish There Was a Shortcut to Atlanta!

[Eric S]

The problem is not mountainous terrain, but rather that tracks usually proposed for Chicago-Florida service are either congested with freight traffic or have been significantly downgraded since passenger trains last operated over them. It's difficult if not impossible to cobble together a route that would not require major investment.

I have a hard time imagining that we'll see any sort of "direct" Chicago-Florida service (through some combination of cities like Atlanta, Birmingham, Evansville, Indianapolis, Louisville, or Nashville, as opposed to "indirect" service over existing Amtrak routes through New Orleans or Washington) until more of the states through which such a route would pass start operating corridor and/or commuter services. If we had some sort of Atlanta-based corridor system, with routes to Chattanooga and Jacksonville among others, and a Chicago-Indianapolis-Louisville corridor, then, at least in my opinion, it becomes much more plausible to get federal funding to reinstate a long distance train linking those corridors.

 

[tp49]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be read to the tune of the "Oscar Mayer" song? Because that's how I read it every time it pops up in my feed.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that way.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

The problem with funding is that Amtrak now requires State funding to add new Amtrak routes.

In theory they require state funding for routes less than 750 miles and the proposed new route is probably well above 750. In practice, the chances of Congress agreeing to pay fully for this new route or the one I want are slim and none.

 

[the_traveler]

IIRC, the Indianapolis to Louisville segment alone had such poor track conditions that when the Kentucky Cardinal still ran, it only went like 10 MPH - and it was still rough! Freight does not care if the tracks are rough, but passengers do.

Also, how many would rather take a train at 10 MPH on VERY rough track vs 75 MPH on a SMOOTH interstate? :huh: Some major upgrade of the rails would have to be done.

Yes the CZ does have mountain grades, but how many would go from DEN to GJT if it went 10 MPH? You can thank D&RGZ passenger service for that! if it was only freight, Amtrak would probably still be routing the CZ thru WY!

 

[GaSteve]

As it stands, it's a pain in the buttocks to get to/from Greyhound from the Amtrak station. MARTA doesn't get close enough to Amtrak. It's only about a $10 Uber ride...

MARTA drops you right at the station if you transfer to the #110 bus at the Arts Center rail station.

 

[railiner]

The dream of a new long-distance train from Chicago to Florida creating new "corridors" of service between the many major cities it would serve is nice....but in reality...how many such "corridors" have developed along Amtrak's long distance routes in its history?

The general unreliability of time-keeping on those routes precludes their use for short-haul traveler's, not to mention the markets served in the 'wee hours'.....

There have been some notable exceptions....Washington to Richmond comes to mind, as well as segments along the Coast Starlight route....

 

[AmtrakBlue]

This just reminded me of a friend who flew from DC to Jacksonville, via Nashville and Atlanta. I told her she should have taken the train when she had posted that her flight from Jacksonville to DC (outbound) was cancelled due to weather. That flight was via Nashville. The next day's flight was via Atlanta.

I've seen many non-direct flights that go out of the way and sometimes back track. So, even airlines take the round about way from point A to point B.

 

[railiner]

How true...once flew from New Orleans to New York on a nonstop flight that went due north before going east to avoid severe weather....we actually flew over Cairo, Il, and then Cleveland....we caught a nice tailwind, and only arrived about twenty minutes late with that roundabout route!

 

[Eric S]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be read to the tune of the "Oscar Mayer" song? Because that's how I read it every time it pops up in my feed.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that way.

I didn't think think that at first but now I do...every time I see it. Thanks. :giggle:

 

[west point]

There are misconceptions about the topography of a route CHI - ATL - Florida.

1. The mountains in the US west are higher

2. As a general rule Slopes are much easier in the west as opposed to the east. What mountains have to be traversed are not as many.

3. The Eastern mountains have all been gouged by millenniums of years of ice causing mountain ridges as close as 10 miles apart with deep valleys in between. Now try to find gaps aligned thru three or 4 ridges. The glaciers gouged to south of Birmingham

4. These eastern mountains as well are aligned on a NNE / NE direction to SSW / SW directions.

5. Now try to build a RR aligned on a SSE direction with 90 - 110 capability either in the past or our near future.

 

[user 1215]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be read to the tune of the "Oscar Mayer" song? Because that's how I read it every time it pops up in my feed.

I didn't plan it that way, but you're right. The cadence is right.

 

[trainman74]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be read to the tune of the "Oscar Mayer" song? Because that's how I read it every time it pops up in my feed.

Unfortunately, the last line is "From the Midwest, there's no good way/To A-T-L-A-N-T-A."

 

[Anderson]

Honestly, the best shot at Atlanta-Florida service would probably be routing a NYP-ATL "day train" out of Atlanta and down to Jacksonville. The intended market for such a train wouldn't be NYP-Florida, obviously...it would be the intermediate markets which presently have messy connections to get to Florida and/or lousy boarding times. Amtrak openly pondered re-routing the Star via Charlotte; something like this might well have enough business to be justified.

(To be fair, splitting the Crescent at Atlanta in this manner might also have merit, given the sluggish-by-comparison business south of Atlanta. The main issue there would be getting into the relevant cities in Florida before it got to be too late/departing late enough in the morning.)

 

[jis]

If one must split the Crescent, I think more promising is splitting it further down and sending a section Dallas, the old Crescent-Star idea that has been batted around. At least all the necessary infrastructure is already in place, unlike the sorry state of affairs in Atlanta, which might eventually get fixed in twenty five years or so.

For purely a Florida Atlanta service, it might be better either to just do a local run between JAX and ATL, or split a section off of the northbound Star and send it to ATL, and have a section from ATL join the southbound Star at JAX. It need not be fancy - just two Coaches and a half cafe half BC would do just fine for starter I should think.The problem still remains as to where you park the darned thing while it is in Atlanta, even if it can somehow use the Peachtree Station.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

The problem with funding is that Congress now requires State funding to add new Amtrak routes...

... under 750 miles, which means most of the ones that seem most likely to attract enuff riders and have low operating losses. And for trains of that distance, they often cross two or more states and need funding from each one, which means any one can veto the plan by saying "No."

We need to reform the 750-mile limit.

 

[Seaboard92]

It's also I want to say a decent sized route time wise. Personally I like the idea of the NYP-ATL day train. Which continues into JAX. Night time from ATL-JAX could even add the cars into the Meteor or Star in JAX

 

[jis]

... under 750 miles, which means most of the ones that seem most likely to attract enuff riders and have low operating losses. And for trains of that distance, they often cross two or more states and need funding from each one, which means any one can veto the plan by saying "No."

We need to reform the 750-mile limit.

A Charlotte to Miami train via ATL - JAX - TPA would be more than 750 miles, just like even a NOL - JAX - ORL train is more than 750 miles.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

... under 750 miles, which means most of the ones that seem most likely to attract enuff riders and have low operating losses. And for trains of that distance, they often cross two or more states and need funding from each one, which means any one can veto the plan by saying "No."

We need to reform the 750-mile limit.

A Charlotte to Miami train via ATL - JAX - TPA would be more than 750 miles, just like even a JAX to ORL train is more than 750 miles.

Do you mean NOL-ORL is more than 750 miles?

To get back on topic, a Charlotte-Miami train would take about 24 hours, so would be longer than some of the current LD trains. A train on this routing could possibly become similar to an overnight southern version of the Carolinian, becoming a corridor train and terminating in Raleigh. The schedule would probably work well with the current mid day Piedmonts. The train could even continue and run up the NEC. It could also replace the overnight Northeast Regional and return sleepers to that train. The schedule would look something like this.

Day 1:

Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville

Overnight 1:

Macon

Day 2:

Atlanta-Charlotte-Richmond-Washington

Overnight 2:

Philadelphia-New York-New Haven

Day 3:

New London-Providence-Boston

 

[Ind Ben]

Parking equipment in Atl would not be a problem. The problem is where would passengers park.

 

[jis]

Yes. Sorry NOL - ORL. Fixed in the original. Thanks.

 

[JoeBas]

Parking equipment in Atl would not be a problem.

Norfolk Southern disagrees with your assessment.

 

[west point]

If Amtrak could just get a new station probably the Chamblee station then.--- A WASH - RVR - RGH - CLT - Greenville - Spartanburg - ATL ( day rain continuing ) to - Macon - Waycross - JAX - MIA train sounds good. Leaving WASH at 0800 can connect with the night owl from BOS. The Long bridge problem is still in play maybe combine with Night owl WASH - Richmond ?

1. Then it gives riders an alternate 3 hours earlier train to the Carolinian for passengers.

2. Fills in opening of Piedmont trains RGH - CLT

3. All passengers south of Raleigh and north of JAX now have alternates to Florida or the NEC

.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

ATL may be hopeless in my lifetime. But ATL is not the only way to get somewhere from here.

The 2009 PRIIA study on the Crescent briefly, iirc, looked at a route Charlotte-Columbia-Charleston-Savannah. That route looks even better today, with population growth, highway congestion, etc., and now more Piedmont frequencies feeding traffic into Charlotte, with 2 more to come next year.

The hang-up was that the existing Silver Star route takes one set of tracks Raleigh-Columbia while a train Charlotte-Columbia would be on a different set of tracks. In the city they are just 2 or 3 miles apart, requiring two different stations and causing much confusion to passengers and taxi drivers. Some have posted that a less-than-5-mile link north of the city could get all the SB trains to the same downtown station. But of course, that would need initiative and money, and South Carolina just ain't in the mood for it. Oh, and then to get to Charleston, well, I forget, but it wasn't gonna be so easy.

Still, such a new route Charlotte-Columbia-Charleston-Savannah would easily stand on its own, with a fistful of good city-pairs on the corridor. And it would link Florida with the inland Carolinas, either as a corridor train requiring transfers, or as part of a new LD train.

And never mind Atlanta. Stew in their own humidity while train service goes elsewhere.

 

[Seaboard92]

Actually for the two routes in Columbia it isn't that difficult. And the university would benefit as would a lot of residents. But connect the NS R line (Charlotte) to the CSX Hamlet sub at Fairwold. Then route all NS and Amtrak over the ex SAL into the trench and use the current station. That would allow the line thru the campus of USC to be downgraded and kept for the one local customer. Put in a new crossover south of the current station and the train could continue on. And everyone would win. Amtrak, city, NS, and the university. The only real loser is CSX. But they don't run much on the hamlet sub or CN&L anymore. So that wouldn't matter

 

[jis]

That is indeed an interesting idea and seems quite workable if the money can be found to put the infrastructure in place.