Philadelphia to Seattle- A cost Comparison Plane vs Train

[dlagrua]

There are those that post here that claim that Amtrak is far more expensive than flying so I will post our most recent experience as a cost comparative example.

Next June my wife and myself booked a trip to Seattle from Philadelphia so its PHL to SEA and back.

As we are middle age folks, we always travel in a bedroom.

Our itinerary is to leave on the Cardinal, (PHL) connect with the Empire Builder (CHI) going and return via the EB, then CL to WAS and regional bus to PHL. Connecting from the EB the Cardinal at CHI was just too close (1 hour) and Amtrak offered to book it, but it can be said that prudence led us to the longer trip back.

Since we will be traveling using the best accommodations that Amtrak has we though that a fair comparison would be to compare the cost to first class airfare.

The cost of this trip (that was relayed by Amtrak was $4,319 but we booked it using AGR points.

In comparison the cost of a First Class airfare for the same trip ranged from $2930 (connecting) to $4,056 (non-stop).

In this instance for a cost to coast trip Amtrak was indeed more expensive but not by that much. Plus we are traveling on Amtrak routes that are typically more expensive than others. We can also argue that via Amtrak, three nights lodging and eight meals are included. so depending on the way you look at it the costs are very close. In first class air you will get drinks and perhaps a small meal

Yes we know that its three days travel as opposed to 6-8 hours by plane but we get to see what air passengers will never see- the landscape of America.

I've done this comparison several times and depending on the routes traveled,the numbers come out differently each time. In general terms Amtrak bedroom travel is comparable to first class airfare.

 

[zepherdude]

In comparison, for a trip from JFK to PDX on Delta First Class, my fare is $536.00 on Sept 4. I made this reservation maybe 2 months ago and now it is up to $2400.00. This is non-stop. There are 7 seats left in FC. It really pays to shop and plan ahead. Coach is $300.00. My fare from Seattle in May was $525.00 non-stop.

On Amtrak, the train is $754.00 today and I suspect it will go as high as $1100.00 bucks, maybe more. The connection was the Cardinal, to Empire Builder. Fares really go up the closer to depaparture. A sleeper was $400 and something. Tough finding cheap sleepers anymore. Seems like Amtrak has learned how to make more money and it seems to be working.

 

[berkyo]

$974 RT uncomfortable economy seats on a plane non stop for 2 seniors to Santa Fe (ABQ then drive rental or have someone pick us up or take the rail runner. Not sure of the cost.) from Roc - our closest airport - Oct 20 to Nov 2. Plus pay to park the car long term. Stand in line remove shoes, Throw out things I did not realize I could not take on a plane and go from one airport to the next that look exactly alike.

ROC to LAMY same dates - RT in coach senior discount seats $700. Much cheaper for us. We used AGR and booked a roomette for TOL to LAMY both ways and are paying @212 for coach on the LSL both ways. @ nights on train with 5 meals and use of the Metro in Chicago. MUCH better deal than flying. No hassles and as Diagrua says, actually see where we are going.

I wish they had train to Hawaii.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I agree with berkyo, and in addition, when comparing value I always figure the cost of the train to include lodging and three meals. I figure the lodging is going to be an equivalent value to what I would pay in the hotel at my destination, I'm just trading one set of amenities (room size & comfort) for another (the vew, the view, the view. Oh, and the company, too!). After all, wherever I spend those nights, I am going to need lodging. I'd take a room on a train any day over a bland, characterless, one-size-fits-all, aiport motel.

 

[the_traveler]

I agree.

Just using that first example, air is a little less. But if you add in the costs of x # of hotels, x # of meals at the destination and most likely car rental or public transportation costs, which costs more? :huh: (You may also have to add parking fees. If I leave from KIN parking is free, but if I leave from the airport I have to pay to park.)

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

To me the train is a key part of the vacation and sometimes the days in between arriving and coming back can turn into a lull

 

[PRR 60]

So, if air were much lower cost, would you have flown? I doubt it.

In the end, the choice really a factor of what you want to do. If you prefer Amtrak long distance travel for the pleasure the trip provides, then is a cost justification needed? I travel Amtrak long distance once a year, more or less. I do so because that is what I want to do for that trip. The time in transit is not a factor and neither is the cost compared to air or even driving. For that trip, I ride the train because I want to ride the train. That’s the sum total of my analysis. I don’t have to trump-up some cost or other pseudo objective justification to convince anyone, including me.

Conversely, my wife and I take several other trips during the year. For those trips, we don’t want to spend days en route. We fly. It is not a decision driven by cost. Amtrak could be free, we would still fly because we don’t want to turn a one-week trip into a two-week trip (and, besides, my wife is not exactly a fan of Amtrak LD travel). I find pleasure in air travel as well. It’s still fun for me.

You don’t need to justify what you want to do. Just do it.

 

[jis]

PRR and I think alike on this matter. It all depends on the mission of the trip. Sometimes the mission of the trip is consistent with train travel and the price is acceptable and sometimes not. This is true of other modes too.

 

[caravanman]

Hi,

I love train travel, but sometimes the bus wins... I wanted to go from Las Vegas to San Diego with Amtrak bus and then train from Lax...cost would be $101 single. Booked by Greyhound bus for $30.... No first class options for me!

Ed

 

[Shanghai]

I had a situation in March where I was traveling with four of my associates. We had a meeting in Kansas City,

then the next morning, we were to travel to suburban Chicago for another meeting the following day. I took the

train (roomette) to Kansas City, then I booked the SWC to Chicago. My four associates flew into Kansas City

and I convinced them to take the train with me to Chicago. It was $35 less expensive per person to take the train than

to fly, plus they shared two roomettes enroute. We boarded the train and immediately went for breakfast,

then had a light lunch and we arrived in Chicago on time - and saved $140 in travel costs. Time wise it took

longer, but they enjoyed the trip.

 

[me_little_me]

Apples to oranges comparison.

Flying in coach across country, while, not fun, is a lot easier for middle agers than coach across country on Amtrak. And while the trip is more comfortable in first class, passengers flying either FC and coach have to go through the hassles of TSA and the baggage restrictions. So comparing FC in Amtrak and FC on a plane based on price is not a fair comparison when considering each as just transportation. After all, if someone said "I need the two of you to go to Seattle and you can fly First Class at my expense for $4000 non-stop or fly coach at $1000 non-stop and I will split the difference so you get $1500 in cash and I save $1500", most would opt for coach simply because the price is not worth it if the money comes out of your own pocket or is handed to you in cash (unless you have more than you need). The $1500 value to you of the FC is probably not that great (and at $3000 more for an out of pocket trip is less of a deal). You can carry aboard from a terminal vendor a better meal and you'd have a hard time drinking that much booze so the better service and bigger seat has to offset that cost. On Amtrak, the difference is huge. Sleeping is far more difficult in coach. Food is extra. Lack of showers and often clean toilets is another. For a middle ager, it is pretty tough.

Flying, whether in FC or coach, is not something anyone looks forward to. It is transportation full of hassles, albeit fewer in FC. Traveling on Amtrak is as much a part of a vacation as being there. So if you have the time, it is a pleasurable experience (and sometimes more pleasurable than the destination itself). Therefore, given "I need the two of you to go to Seattle and you can take an Amtrak bedroom at my expense for $4000 or fly coach at $1000 non-stop and I will split the difference so you get $1500 in cash and I save $1500", you are getting a vacation on a train worth $1500 and you might want that relaxing vacation on the train for two. Even out of pocket, the $3000 extra is not for a few hours in a bigger seat but a scenic ride across America and eating at one of the most scenic-view restaurants in the country. More than that, you can stop off for a few days on the way out and/or back for little more than the cost of a continuous journey.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Being candid here. I'm not even going to consider First Class or a Bedroom. That's because I really can't. It's pointless when you don't have the money to shell out, and I suspect most Americans will agree with me, since most of us all earn around the national average. Even a Roomette is splurning enough for me.

Another thing to consider is that time often translates to money. Since a train takes so much longer than a plane, you end up paying even more for the train. But the train also has more meals included, so that might balance things out. In the end, I agree with me_little_me, it's an apple vs. orange comparison.

Hi,I love train travel, but sometimes the bus wins... I wanted to go from Las Vegas to San Diego with Amtrak bus and then train from Lax...cost would be $101 single. Booked by Greyhound bus for $30.... No first class options for me!

Ed

Yes, that's cheap! I sure hope you enjoyed the ride, because these days we in the Western US have to contend with lots of the worst Greyhound buses! Far less plesant than the buses they used to have in the West, but at least it's cheap, REALLY cheap around the West Coast.

Every mode of transport has its advantages and disadvantages. Flying is good if you need to get there quick. Trains are good if you can get a good deal for its class, like low-bucket Roomettes and such. Similar with buses, it's good if you get to ride a DL3 for a blasting deal, but very bad if you pay $50 for a short G-unit ride! And of course cars have the unique advantage of ultimate flexibility.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Being candid here. I'm not even going to consider First Class or a Bedroom. That's because I really can't. It's pointless when you don't have the money to shell out, and I suspect most Americans will agree with me, since most of us all earn around the national average. Even a Roomette is splurning enough for me.

Similarly, it's difficult for a whole lot of people to get more than a week off at a time for a vacation. Six days "on the road" sort puts a banana in the tailpipe of spending any real time at your destination.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Being candid here. I'm not even going to consider First Class or a Bedroom. That's because I really can't. It's pointless when you don't have the money to shell out, and I suspect most Americans will agree with me, since most of us all earn around the national average. Even a Roomette is splurning enough for me.

Similarly, it's difficult for a whole lot of people to get more than a week off at a time for a vacation. Six days "on the road" sort puts a banana in the tailpipe of spending any real time at your destination.

That matters too, hence my mentioning of "time is money." And if my employer would be shelling out the money instead of myself, which would be the easiest way for people to travel at the top class, he would still not want me to take a train for business purposes that will waste a whole work week.

 

[PRR 60]

While there are some who buy first class air, a significant portion of the ridership up front is either comp upgrades from frequent flyer status or upgrades paid with miles. On a trip I took last month, all three of my flight segments were auto-upgraded to first based on my status, and I have a mid-level status. I've flown a reasonable number of trips in first class, and I've never bought a "list price" first class ticket.

As for domestic business travel, most companies dictate coach only for company paid travel (excepting the executive suite inhabitants).

 

[rrdude]

To me the train is a key part of the vacation and sometimes the days in between arriving and coming back can turn into a lull

While most of us here in forum wud agree w/ that, and what The_Traveler said, I think a vast majority of "John Q. traveling public" would NOT agree. They just want to GET where they are going. Yes, they are "missing" something, but with very limited ad budget, Amtrak can hardly afford to "educate" the traveling public/families about the "joys" of train travel.

Over the years, I have had many, far TOO many actually, friends/co-workers "try" Amtrak, because they have heard me wax on about how much **I** love to travel by train...

Well over half I'd guess, after their trip is over, have said something like, "Well, that WAS an experience, but never again...." (I'm talking LD trains....)

But I keep trying, just gave my niece four tix between KZO and ARB, she's a freshman at K-College, we'll see.....

 

[jis]

Flying, whether in FC or coach, is not something anyone looks forward to. It is transportation full of hassles, albeit fewer in FC.

Really? I actually know more people who love to fly and look forward to it than I know who love to ride trains and look forward to it, at least in this country, and I do know a lot of people who love to ride trains. A quick proxy measure of such could be the relative number of people who are members of say airliners.net vs. say railroad.net, but probably not a good one, since I suppose one can be interested in a thing without partaking in it enthusiastically.

Anyway, I agree with your apples to oranges comment.

It is also true that even train lovers do not necessarily look forward to very train ride, except perhaps a few terminal cases. It takes a certain level of dedication/addiction to love and look forward to a ride on a rush hour LIRR or NJT service, for example.

OTOH, I, who loves to ride both trains and planes, find myself looking forward to a flight in Business Class with lie flat seats on a long international leg going to exotic place and flying over exotic places. I insist on a window seat so that I can look out and take pictures, laying to rest another myth that no one looks out a plane window because there is nothing to see.

I actually quite enjoy a flight from Newark to LAX because of the high likelihood that I'd get a spectacular view of the Grand Canyon.

So yes, there are people who love to fly and look forward to it for certain flights, like there are people who love to take the train and look forward to it. And there are lots of people that don;t care much for either, but partake because they have to.

While there are some who buy first class air, a significant portion of the ridership up front is either comp upgrades from frequent flyer status or upgrades paid with miles. On a trip I took last month, all three of my flight segments were auto-upgraded to first based on my status, and I have a mid-level status. I've flown a reasonable number of trips in first class, and I've never bought a "list price" first class ticket.
As for domestic business travel, most companies dictate coach only for company paid travel (excepting the executive suite inhabitants).

Many companies, including the one I work for has the no BC restriction on all international flights too, for the peons. And yet, I, in spite of being a peon have flown quite a lot of FC domestically and BF internationally using various frequent flyer status related mechanisms. The company travel department is quite used to such and doesn't flinch as long as no up-charge is billed to the company. They basically don't care what you do beyond the basic fare that the company will cover according to LPF (Lowest Preferred Fare) policies. I have even done miles and fee upgrade with no hassle, as long as I cover the fee.

If you think Amtrak Sleepers are expensive try some of the international fares in BF (J) and F.

 

[berkyo]

These are all good points and I think I agree with all of them for different reasons.

As a retired couple who do NOT like to fly at all, the train has been such a pleasant find. Even in coach we are quite comfortable with a blanket and pillow and ear plugs.

We would not pay cash for a roomette. It is just unaffordable as an ordinary unnecessary trip. We would train or drive if we go anywhere anymore and we would Plane if we had to be someplace in an emergency whatever the cost. So I myself am just thinking that since time is not a problem for us and the kids live in Santa Fe now, the roomette with AGR points is a nice vacation for us once a year. Other trips to SF would be in coach or if necessary, by plane. Having made the drive to Santa Fe once,(3-4 days) we would not do it again. Way too long and much more expensive than paying cash for a roomette.

I would take a bus on a short trip.

 

[Barciur]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

 

[jis]

Specially on the NEC, just two Acela round trips between designated city pairs bags you 2000 point on AGR. And then people charge their entire cost of living on their AGR Mastercard too!

 

[pennyk]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

I do not live in the Northeast, but have managed to accumulate enough points to go across country and back next year. I used points to go one way in 2011. I pretty much use my AGR credit card for everything that I can (for which I am not charged a fee).

 

[Barciur]

Ah, the AGR Mastercard is true too.. wish I could have that, ha.

 

[DET63]

Let me try one: San Francisco to Los Angeles on Wednesday, August 28:

San Francisco to SJC via Caltrain (4-zone trip): $9.00 (vending machine) or $8.75 (Clipper Card)

SJC to LAX: $55.00

Total: $64.00 or $63.75

(No Thruway bus service between San Francisco and Emeryville on Wednesday through Labor Day weekend due to the Bay Bridge closure.)

SFO to LAX on Wednesday, August 28:

Southwest Airlines (Anytime Fare): $215

United Airlines (lowest fare): $215

Changing the United parameters for "Any airport" in the Bay Area to "Any airport" in the L.A. area gives the same results.

It will be interesting to see how the fares compare once the bullet train gets to be up and running (assuming it ever does).

 

[oregon pioneer]

This might be a bit OT, but I'm always curious how do people manage to get so many AGR points to afford a roomette? I'm lucky if I get 2000 points a year for AGR

I do not live in the Northeast, but have managed to accumulate enough points to go across country and back next year. I used points to go one way in 2011. I pretty much use my AGR credit card for everything that I can (for which I am not charged a fee).

Use the AGR MasterCard *and* buy the maximum allowed every year when there is a 30% promotion. By doing that, Hubby and I can accumulate enough points in a couple of years for him to "buy" the roomette one way, and me the other. We aren't big spenders, and don't travel frequently.

 

[Trogdor]

Except for single overnight trips (by train, that is, not your whole trip being one night) where the train gets you to your destination early the next day (or departs from your destination on your return trip late in the evening), it's a bit disingenuous to factor in hotel costs for the nights you're on the train in your overall cost comparison.

Three nights on the train in a sleeper might be cheaper than airfare plus three nights in a hotel, but in most cases, the alternative would be spending those three extra nights at home, which comes at no additional cost.

It's also not quite a fair comparison to use airline first class vs. Amtrak sleeper. If I'm going to be on a train for 48 hours, I'm going to travel in a sleeper not because I'm a high-priced, first class kind of person, but because I like having a bed to sleep in at night and a private area to relax in for extended periods if I'm not doing anything else. But to cover the equivalent distance by air would take four hours, so I could easily do that in a regular coach seat (just as I probably wouldn't buy a sleeper for a four-hour train trip unless it was really cheap).

As others have noted, choosing to take LD trains vs. planes (especially for those looking at first class fares for either mode) is a matter of preference for how to get there, and not one of finding the cheapest mode (which neither first class air nor sleeper by train qualifies).