Privatization of Dining Car Service may be the answer
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jis
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According to at least one article and one book that I have read on the subject, at least on the Super Chief Fred Harvey provided all Dining Car personnel. I don;t know what the situation was on other Fred harvey catered trains, which would be all other Santa Fe LD trains that ran west of Kansas (at least and maybe others too).
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Nurses are extremely under paid for the job they must endure day after day only because they are driven by the need to care for those hurting and sick. Hospitals cringe at paying their nurses more than $20 - $25 per hour, but have no problem insisting that they work 12 hour shifts where more days/nights than not a break is not possible even to go to the bathroom. A trained chef or line cook have spent weeks and months being trained in their skills/talents. We are entrusting these people to safely prepare the meal we have ordered. As mentioned, we expect them to endure the hardships of long days, rough working conditions, and maintain a safe working environment despite all this. If people are paid their worth for complex duties loyalty then comes into play.
Ryan
Court Jester
Is it your contention that the highest paid Amtrak OBS person must be paid less than the lowest paid nurse, or was your post just some feel good "won't someone think of the children nurses?
FormerOBS
Conductor
Nurses : OBS :: Apples : Oranges
Working people need and deserve a living (not subsistence) wage for their work. It is a fact that many hard-working people are victimized by employers who are too cheap to pay decent wages. But that has nothing to do with whether a contractor can do a better job of providing food service on trains, unless the suggestion is that the contractor will also pay at these same ridiculously low wage scales. I don't believe that plan is sustainable because the contractor won't be able to keep qualified staff. What do you do on the inevitable day when none of the contractor's underpaid employees bother to show up for the train? Eat the upholstery?
Tom
Working people need and deserve a living (not subsistence) wage for their work. It is a fact that many hard-working people are victimized by employers who are too cheap to pay decent wages. But that has nothing to do with whether a contractor can do a better job of providing food service on trains, unless the suggestion is that the contractor will also pay at these same ridiculously low wage scales. I don't believe that plan is sustainable because the contractor won't be able to keep qualified staff. What do you do on the inevitable day when none of the contractor's underpaid employees bother to show up for the train? Eat the upholstery?
Tom
Nice false dichotomy there.
Ryan
Court Jester
You're free to elaborate and make a logical argument.
KmH
Engineer
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FormerOBS
Conductor
Maybe you mean food-free.
Still doesn't fix the root of the wage issue (the people working on Amtrak are full-time and are required to be away from home for days at a time, versus part-time or full-time employees that can live at home and lead a normal life outside of work hours,) and doesn't really solve a supply chain issue as they're not nationwide.
FormerOBS
Conductor
Bada-bing!
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FormerOBS
Conductor
Post 39 says it was edited, but there is no indication that my edits actually appear. Very frustrating.
I added the fact that many of the lowest-paid workers in the US have two or more jobs in order to make ends meet. They are among the most hard-working and underappreciated people in our society. A second job is out of the question for an OBS employee. Maybe the Amtrak office worker who works 9-5, M-F at 60 Mass. can have the luxury of a second job, but it's not in the cards for OBS.
Tom
I added the fact that many of the lowest-paid workers in the US have two or more jobs in order to make ends meet. They are among the most hard-working and underappreciated people in our society. A second job is out of the question for an OBS employee. Maybe the Amtrak office worker who works 9-5, M-F at 60 Mass. can have the luxury of a second job, but it's not in the cards for OBS.
Tom
gwschenk
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Extract money from the system to some paper shuffler on Wall Street.
haolerider
Conductor
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All these discussions have been hashed over forever! It seems to me that Amtrak tried to sub-contract to Subway and I believe that lasted only a few days. Union objections, harassment of the Subway employees and unhappiness of the passengers soon put a halt to that plan. I cannot imagine a sub-contractor taking on food service on a LD train......Regionals perhaps, but overnight travel for sub-contractors simply will not work! Even if a sub thought they could put together a plan, where in the world are they going to find workers willing to put in the hours, let alone being away from home, and provide benefits and retirement. I would love to see someone put together a feasible plan for any long instance train and provide similar or better food quality than what is available now!
The challenge begins!
The challenge begins!
Without getting into the union / non union debate and setting aside cafe/lounge cars - that do an ok job of taking care of those without the disposable income to eat in the diner- it seems to me there are things that Amtrak could do to reduce dining car losses yet improve food availability/quality.
Most everyone enjoys sitting at a table to eat. But do we really need tablecloths and waiters to sling food at us? Consider the model of the better upscale fast food chains that prepare and serve fresh food fast which you then carry to a table to enjoy with new friends, family, or your favorite electronic device. I'm thinking of the model used by Panera, Chipolte, and even Jimmy John's. They cost a bit more than Mickey D's but the food is fresh and fast. I suspect that would be just fine for the majority of non railfan Amtrak riders. Eliminate the galley and cook(s) and have a couple guys making the food in front of you at the grill/counter. You eat when and what you want. Open for extended hours, and without a lot of clean up, keep serving almost to train destination arrival.
And for those wanna be well heeled rail barons and the gray haired set, on a couple of the longer and more popular LD trains, add a CCC car as first class lounge diner (good food, good at table service) - with a price tag to match to cover higher costs (of course already in place with the PPC).
Most everyone enjoys sitting at a table to eat. But do we really need tablecloths and waiters to sling food at us? Consider the model of the better upscale fast food chains that prepare and serve fresh food fast which you then carry to a table to enjoy with new friends, family, or your favorite electronic device. I'm thinking of the model used by Panera, Chipolte, and even Jimmy John's. They cost a bit more than Mickey D's but the food is fresh and fast. I suspect that would be just fine for the majority of non railfan Amtrak riders. Eliminate the galley and cook(s) and have a couple guys making the food in front of you at the grill/counter. You eat when and what you want. Open for extended hours, and without a lot of clean up, keep serving almost to train destination arrival.
And for those wanna be well heeled rail barons and the gray haired set, on a couple of the longer and more popular LD trains, add a CCC car as first class lounge diner (good food, good at table service) - with a price tag to match to cover higher costs (of course already in place with the PPC).
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haolerider
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I think if you look into Panera or Chipoltle you will see that they actually employ more than just a couple of guys making food at a counter/grill. They also have a rather large stock of items that need to be prepared and prepped ahead of time; such as salads, soups, etc. With your model, staffing would require about the same amount of people to cover breakfast, lunch & dinner, since you would need to be opened from 6:30 am until at least 10 pm. Then there is the clean-up & prep for the next day. Also, since the train eventually reaches its destination, left over food would have to be condemned, unlike a Panera type operation which serves from the same location day after day. I think if you visited a Panera location and counted the staff they need, it would be much more than Amtrak's LD trains dining car, which also would mean having to find sleeping space for the staff, which takes away revenue rooms from the nventory.
LD trains provide a perplexing set of unique circumstances which are not replicated in a stand-alone restaurant.
LD trains provide a perplexing set of unique circumstances which are not replicated in a stand-alone restaurant.
MikeM
OBS Chief
Actually, reading the history of the Fred Harvey company, Santa Fe dropped them for dining car services in the final years of service because they felt they could operate the remaining dining cars cheaper than the Harvey Company. At that time, both the company founder and his son had passed away, and the surviving family didn't have the same finesse for service that the founders had. At the same time, though, I think the problem of a private provider would only be greater now, with fewer trains, less frequencies, and the constant political bickering about funding.
For those interested, I'd strongly recommend the book Appetite for America, which does an excellent job of discussing the challenges and history of the Fred Harvey company, along with how it came to fade away.
I have no objection to anyone making a decent living based upon education, skill, talent and a good work ethic. Except for the kitchen staff the people working the dining cars are unskilled labor and should be compensated as such. In the private sector table servers are paid less than minimum wage but make a decent living by providing quality service that results in good tips.
If the private sector moved into the dining cars they would use restaurant labor that is paid the going rate and they will earn what they are capable of earning. Like it or not, fair or not, this is the way of the world. The janitor just doesn't get paid as well as other workers in a business.
Amtrak has a big problem on its hands now that Boardhead promised congress to have food service profitable or at the break even point in 2 years. What a disingenuous statement to make. You would have to be an ***** to believe this. This promise to congress will undoubtedly result in massive layoffs and poor or non-existent food service. Thanks to their leader, Amtrak has put themselves in a corner and something must be done.
My solution is to have private industry take over the food service on the dining cars for the free use of them. The food service would be responsible for everything including, menus, preparation, tableware, cleanup and maintenance. This has got to save Amtrak millions and while they bear the cost of transporting the car, it eliminates all other costs.
. Putting Amtrak food service people out of work is certainly not a good thing. We can argue what is right and just but the stage has already been set Changes are going to happen regardless, and other approaches will come into play. Its either this or no food service at all.
If the private sector moved into the dining cars they would use restaurant labor that is paid the going rate and they will earn what they are capable of earning. Like it or not, fair or not, this is the way of the world. The janitor just doesn't get paid as well as other workers in a business.
Amtrak has a big problem on its hands now that Boardhead promised congress to have food service profitable or at the break even point in 2 years. What a disingenuous statement to make. You would have to be an ***** to believe this. This promise to congress will undoubtedly result in massive layoffs and poor or non-existent food service. Thanks to their leader, Amtrak has put themselves in a corner and something must be done.
My solution is to have private industry take over the food service on the dining cars for the free use of them. The food service would be responsible for everything including, menus, preparation, tableware, cleanup and maintenance. This has got to save Amtrak millions and while they bear the cost of transporting the car, it eliminates all other costs.
. Putting Amtrak food service people out of work is certainly not a good thing. We can argue what is right and just but the stage has already been set Changes are going to happen regardless, and other approaches will come into play. Its either this or no food service at all.
Carolina Special
Lead Service Attendant
A private vendor is going to need to be able to make a reasonable profit. IMO, the conditions that the dining/café cars operate under won't allow this. The vendor is limited to whatever traffic shows up on the train. There is limited seating and limited ability to turnover customers quickly at meals. Some customers are looking for a high end meal with lots of options (cruise line) while others only want or are able to afford a hot dog/pizza: it's tough for any vendor to appeal to both market segments and earn a reasonable return.
Whether unions are good or bad in your view, there are very few examples of unionized restaurants in this country, let alone successful ones. A inherited unionized workforce would simply be another reason for the private vendor to pass on providing service.
I agree that changes are going to keep coming, but the full private sector route looks to me like a dead end, unless you figure out someway to change the model.
Whether unions are good or bad in your view, there are very few examples of unionized restaurants in this country, let alone successful ones. A inherited unionized workforce would simply be another reason for the private vendor to pass on providing service.
I agree that changes are going to keep coming, but the full private sector route looks to me like a dead end, unless you figure out someway to change the model.
AFAIK, the servers in the diner are responsible for more than just serving food. I believe they are also trained in train safety which is a lot more and different, I'm sure, than any safety regular restaurant employees are trained in.
I don't know why people insist on comparing train personnel to their counterparts that work "on land". It's a whole lot different.
I don't know why people insist on comparing train personnel to their counterparts that work "on land". It's a whole lot different.
haolerider
Conductor
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If private companies are to do what you describe, where will these people sleep? The hidden cost is the loss of revenue from the rooms these staff would occupy! Your suggestion would not eliminate all costs, in fact based on staffing needs, it might cost more with your model than what Amtrak loses now! No private company would enter into such an agreement.
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