Proposals for Restored Gulf Coast Service

[jis]

I agree. Though it would involve buying new stuff and depreciating it as opposed to using existing depreciated equipment which would otherwise be lying idle in NOL

Any reasonably capitalized project would take the former route, while an undercapitalized project would tend to go the latter route.

 

[neroden]

Ideally SRC through government funding should simply acquire the trackage from CSX and setup a compact for maintaining and running it by contracting with or leasing to an outfit capable of doing so. As Neroden often says, gaining ownership of the property is the best way to enable a viable and user friendly passenger service. As for whether the states will develop adequate intestinal fortitude to do so is a different matter.

Offered enough money, almost anyone will develop and enthusiasm.

Look at what UP has been enthusiastically doing in California!

Indeed. Unfortunately, in large portions of the South in particular, there seems to be a doctrinaire opposition to governments actually buying or owning anything.

So while upstate NY counties have purchased rail lines with no particular plan for using them, and while Massachusetts has bought entire packages of trackage including sections of marginal usage from CSX and Pan Am, and while Metrolink and NCTD in California purchased great hunks of Southern Pacific, and while Florida agencies have purchased large pieces of trackage from CSX and its predecessors, it sadly seems unlikely to me that the Gulf Coast agencies will do the same thing.

Maybe they will; Gulf Coast culture isn't quite the same as Southern culture, and New Orleans seems to show less opposition to government ownership of resources than most of the South. But it would have to be the cities buying the line, not the states, since I don't see *any* of those states buying *any* of the tracks.

 

[Palmland]

Regarding the doctrinaire opposition to governments actually buying or owning anything, generalizations are just that. In my state:

https://palmettorailways.com/about-us.html

Another railroad planned in the Charleston area and an inland port in the Greenville area and two more being developed.

 

[Don Newcomb]

Maybe they will; Gulf Coast culture isn't quite the same as Southern culture, and New Orleans seems to show less opposition to government ownership of resources than most of the South. But it would have to be the cities buying the line, not the states, since I don't see *any* of those states buying *any* of the tracks.

AFAIK, no one is talking about buying or selling the CSX track in LA, MS or AL; only the section from P'cola eastward. That would be entirely in the bailiwick of Fla. DOT.

 

[jis]

That is correct. And at least this year Florida DOT will do nothing about it. They are not even active in SRC.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Don Newcomb]

Blurb on local TV news: https://www.wxxv25.com/2018/04/02/possible-amtrack-train-re-open/

 

[jis]

Blurb on local TV news: https://www.wxxv25.com/2018/04/02/possible-amtrack-train-re-open/

Amtrak spelled as Amtrack

 

[Don Newcomb]

Blurb on local TV news: https://www.wxxv25.com/2018/04/02/possible-amtrack-train-re-open/

Amtrak spelled as Amtrack

Yeah, it's not a very good report. I was actually hesitant to post it. WXXV is the 2nd station in a 1-station market. They tend to use a lot of trainees.

 

[Gulfwind2]

Blurb on local TV news: https://www.wxxv25.com/2018/04/02/possible-amtrack-train-re-open/

Amtrak spelled as Amtrack

Yeah, it's not a very good report. I was actually hesitant to post it. WXXV is the 2nd station in a 1-station market. They tend to use a lot of trainees.

WXXV is low rent to the extent that it is almost reminiscent of SCTV or one of those other satirical news stations. I'm at least glad that the reporting is slanted very much in favor of getting the public opinion further behind the restoration effort. As an aside, I got quite a chuckle from that pun you managed to squeeze in at the end of that post.

 

[JoeBas]

Seems to me that in the current mode (BC on AT/C... gone! PV's... GONE! Charters... GONE! Chefs on CL... GONE! American call centers... GONE! All in just the last month...), hoping for any kind of expansion, service restoration, or dare I say even service CONTINUANCE at current levels seems to be little more than wishful thinking.

 

[Ryan]

American call centers, PVs, and Charters are not gone.

 

[jis]

Seems to me that in the current mode (BC on AT/C... gone! PV's... GONE! Charters... GONE! Chefs on CL... GONE! American call centers... GONE! All in just the last month...), hoping for any kind of expansion, service restoration, or dare I say even service CONTINUANCE at current levels seems to be little more than wishful thinking.

Half of the things that you suggest are gone are actually not gone. However, if it is necessary to overstate reality in a way so as to stir up bile rather than have a reasoned discussion, I guess everything is par for the course.

Gulf Coast service has somewhere between $20 million and #35 million available to move forward. It is viewed as a Corridor service rather than an LD service at least at the most populated end of it. It is likely to proceed either in the context of LD trains or corridorized LD setup. What happens to BC, PVs, Charters and call centers may have relatively little relevance to a local initiative creating a service. No one expects the PRIIA State funded and similar corridor services or NEC to be affected greatly anyway. And given that the National account just received $1.3 billion, I doubt that most LD trains would be negatively affected. But that is again of little relevance as far as Gulf Coast restoration goes.

 

[JoeBas]

That's all well and good guys. I'd love seeing this service restored more than most, as I live in Houston and am a FSU alum who would love an all-rail option to attend football games.

All I'm saying is that my attitude with Amtrak right now is "Hope in one hand, crap in the other, see which fills up first.". Until I'm given a REASON to change that outlook, I feel comfortable in my stance.

 

[jis]

No problem with that attitude at all. I think many including me have similar feelings. But the point I am trying to make is, it is more important than ever to remain grounded in reality and facts, and not get swayed by exaggerations and unfounded statements, which is so easy to do when one is feeling crappy or exhilarated about a situation.

 

[railgeekteen]

So is this thing happening this year? Next year? Soon?

 

[dlagrua]

So is this thing happening this year? Next year? Soon?

I believe that restoring Gulf passenger service is a great idea. Currently Florida residents have only one direction to travel out of the state and that is due North. Allowing a service West may become popular. As for when service can resume that's a tough question. A month after hurricane Katrina freight trains were running on the Gulf Coast line again but for reasons unknown Amtrak did not resume service. Now 13 years later requirements for signaling and for passenger operation have change so this could be one reason why service has yet to resume. Amtrak also required state funding along the route to restore service that never came. If I am incorrect in my assessment of the situation, members please fell free to chime in.

 

[Don Newcomb]

..... Allowing a service West may become popular. ...... but for reasons unknown Amtrak did not resume service..

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the SL segment between NOL and Tallahassee was one of the least popular, least utilized, Amtrak routes. The reason Amtrak was quick to drive a stake in its heart and very happy to leave it there was that it lost so much money. This is why I try to make the point that just restoring what was there before would be insane. Turning the CONO left at NOL may work. Running two trains from MOB into NOL each day, may work. Whatever is tried, it has to be different from what we had before or it won't work.

 

[chrsjrcj]

I dont think you can really expect much out of a 3 day a week train, often hours late, that was scheduled to travel along the Gulf Coast during the middle of the night.

 

[jis]

..... Allowing a service West may become popular. ...... but for reasons unknown Amtrak did not resume service..

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the SL segment between NOL and Tallahassee was one of the least popular, least utilized, Amtrak routes. The reason Amtrak was quick to drive a stake in its heart and very happy to leave it there was that it lost so much money. This is why I try to make the point that just restoring what was there before would be insane. Turning the CONO left at NOL may work. Running two trains from MOB into NOL each day, may work. Whatever is tried, it has to be different from what we had before or it won't work.

I have seen claims, sometimes quite bombastic, made in both directions on this. Can you please share some real (i.e. from a trustworthy source) numbers to support your claim of relative ridership on the east segment of the Sunset when it ran to Florida, vs. say the western segment of it, west of NOL? Thanks.

 

[chrsjrcj]

..... Allowing a service West may become popular. ...... but for reasons unknown Amtrak did not resume service..

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the SL segment between NOL and Tallahassee was one of the least popular, least utilized, Amtrak routes. The reason Amtrak was quick to drive a stake in its heart and very happy to leave it there was that it lost so much money. This is why I try to make the point that just restoring what was there before would be insane. Turning the CONO left at NOL may work. Running two trains from MOB into NOL each day, may work. Whatever is tried, it has to be different from what we had before or it won't work.

I have seen claims, sometimes quite bombastic, made in both directions on this. Can you please share some real (i.e. from a trustworthy source) numbers to support your claim of relative ridership on the east segment of the Sunset when it ran to Florida, vs. say the western segment of it, west of NOL? Thanks.

The website unitedrail.org used to have the Florida ridership from the 90s. I actually typed it out on another forum before the site was taken down. www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=75580&p=1313504#p1313504

Edited to add:

Here is a link through the internet archive- http://web.archive.org/web/20140914145458/http://www.unitedrail.org/1999/03/05/suggested-rationalization-of-amtrak-florida-service/

Again, the entire table does not show up on the website. You can copy and paste the table in a Word document to view the whole thing. The most surprising to me is that Pensacola had better ridership numbers than Tallahassee. I'd expect the reverse to be true today.

 

[Don Newcomb]

The most surprising to me is that Pensacola had better ridership numbers than Tallahassee. I'd expect the reverse to be true today.

Perhaps but you can pick out the SL stations on the list by their very low activity. P'cola, Crestview, Chipley, Tallahassee, Madison, Lake City. Only Okeechobee comes close and it's in the middle of nowhere. I know it's only anecdotal but I watched the SL run through Gulfport for many years and it was usually running well below 50%. I tried to use the SL to get to places between Houston and Tallahassee and it always turned out to be much quicker, easier and cheaper to drive. This is why I make the case, every chance I get, that doing the same thing they did before will only guarantee the same result. And the next time there's a disruption Amtrak will get out the hammer and stake and kill it again.

 

[frequentflyer]

Per the Anderson interview

https://www.ustream.tv/recorded/114596550

Amtrak is seriously looking at bringing back NOL-Mobile service.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'd imagine Amtrak is willing to seriously look at operating virtually any U750 route that will be paid up in full by way of contract.

 

[Don Newcomb]

Per the Anderson interview

https://www.ustream.tv/recorded/114596550

Amtrak is seriously looking at bringing back NOL-Mobile service.

Is there a time hack we should look for in that 2.5 hour video?

 

[jis]

Per the Anderson interview

https://www.ustream.tv/recorded/114596550

Amtrak is seriously looking at bringing back NOL-Mobile service.

Is there a time hack we should look for in that 2.5 hour video?

Last 45 minutes or so of it is Anderson.