Proposals for Restored Gulf Coast Service

[Anderson]

CSX's rebuttal.

I'm wondering whether the installation of PTC should be included in the estimates of necessary investment. If there remains no passenger service from New Orleans to Florida, would it be necessary for CSX to install PTC on that line anyway?

jb

I'm wondering how it was that CSX came down to the $800m-ish proposal.

 

[nshvlcat]

Latest CSX concerns about restored Gulf Coast service.

 

[Greg]

That is so disturbing. I've lost hope that this will ever happen.

 

[DSS&A]

The letter is not too disturbing. The PTC Federal requirement is a known fact. The Feds have started to provide some funding for PTC installation, bit not a large amount of money. If delays due to bridge openings (which not controlled by either Amtrak or CSX) are not counted towards on time performance, then CSX cannot be charged for something it can't control and it becomes a non-issue for CSX. One question is is there existing freight traffic on all or portions of this route that requires PTC installation even if there is no passenger train service. If so, then CSX is responsible for that cost. Also, if it is advantageous for CSX to start routing freight that requires PTC installation (and they plan to do it within 3 years of PTC installation), then they should pay their fair share.

 

[neroden]

I checked my railroad atlases to figure out where the drawbridges were. 7 are between New Orleans and Mobile and 3 immediately east of Mobile.

Yuck.

Sea level rise means that the scientific consensus is that New Orleans is doomed. I guess I should visit soon. Anyway, I'm realizing this route isn't just coastal, it's *dangerously* coastal.

 

[Carolina Special]

Seems like a negotiating ploy to get more money for CSX out of the deal, rather than an absolute hindrance.

Also interesting this letter comes from an assistant VP, not a higher level executive. Compare to Moorman having pieces under his own byline to justify the Penn Station repairs.

 

[Don Newcomb]

Coming out of New Orleans, there's a bascule bridge on the Industrial Canal, a swing bridge at the Rigolets, Pearl River, Bay St. Louis, Biloxi, Pascagoula. Not sure if there's another before Mobile. Out of Mobile, there'd be at least one on the river. One over Escambia Bay coming out of Pensacola. That should be about it until you get to the Chattahoochee River.

P.S. Forgot Chef Menteur Pass. That makes 7 between NOLA and Mobile.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

I agree that these letters & announcements are negotiating ploys. Amtrak runs hundreds of trains on the Northeast Corridor daily on a route with multiple lift bridges and they still keep good on time performance. If Amtrak can do it on the NEC with over 100 daily trains, CSX can do it with a much smaller number of trains, even with a single mainline and appropriate sidings.

 

[west point]

Wasn't the Pensacola draw ( swing ? ) bridge replaced by a fixed high span concrete bridge ?

 

[Don Newcomb]

Wasn't the Pensacola draw ( swing ? ) bridge replaced by a fixed high span concrete bridge ?

Yeah. After Ivan (2004) took out the old wooden bridge. For 100 years it was a wooden bridge with a swing in the center and for 12 it's been an elevated concrete bridge. I forgot.

 

[Thirdrail7]

If the 80% OTP tolerances are eventually found to be unenforceable, that would knock down a large part of their argument. I suspect they still wouldn't budge even if all of the their requests were met.

I'm not sure why people don;t understand that CSX really doesn't want passenger trains on their tracks. This is like the 90's all over again.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

CSX is pointing to Amtraks report and using it in their negotiations. Has Amtrak or the Southern Rail Commission considered "updating" the report which might have a different financial cost result?

 

[Don Newcomb]

I can actually see how those 7 bridges can, potentially mess up scheduling on a single trackage line. AFAIK, only the Industrial Canal bridge in New Orleans has two tracks. Although, only the Industrial Canal, Mobile and Tensaw River bridges open very frequently. There is not that much traffic through the other bridges.

However, L&N ran the Humming Bird over these same tracks for many years. At least as far as Flomaton, where it turned north.

 

[PaulM]

However, L&N ran the Humming Bird over these same tracks for many years. At least as far as Flomaton, where it turned north.

And the Pan American, Piedmont, and Azalean. Not to mention the Gulf Wind which was tacked on to one of the others and split at Flomaton.

 

[Don Newcomb]

One other issue is that between Waveland and Pascagoula, MS, there must be 100 grade-level crossing. Just today a semi-truck got stuck on a crossing in Biloxi and stopped auto & rail traffic for several hours. It looks like the trailer's sand shoe (landing gear) got caught on the crossing and ripped up the rubber crossing pad, which had to be removed and replaced.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Moorman isn't giving up on the service.

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/2017/07/17/amtrak-co-ceo-optimistic-restoring-service-gulf-coast/485000001/

 

[Karl1459]

Used car negotiating rules: Make your asking sale price high... you can always go down but never up. Make your buying offer low... you can always go up but never down.

The dance is just beginning, sit back and enjoy.

 

[nshvlcat]

The Gulf Coast Working Group's report has been submitted.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

That's not used car negotiating rules, that's the rules of negotiating anything where the selling party is willing to sell.

 

[Don Newcomb]

Local newspaper: Gulf Coast wants two trains: One NOL to Orlando, the other NOL to Mobile.

http://www.sunherald.com/news/politics-government/article162135023.html

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Local newspaper: Gulf Coast wants two trains: One NOL to Orlando, the other NOL to Mobile.

http://www.sunherald.com/news/politics-government/article162135023.html

That Mobile-New Orleans route will be a great corridor someday. It's short enuff that business types could leave one city around breakfast time, spend the day in meetings, and return home before bedtime. The casinos along the Mississippi Coast will attract riders. And they will produce them: It's easy to imagine visitors in the beachfront hotels grabbing a train for a day trip to the city.

Meanwhile, a route Baton Rouge-New Orleans has been talked about and studied for years. Corridor trains there may have to wait until the Florida train is operating successfully to build solid support for state-financed operating costs. Of course, the Florida and Mobile trains would feed passengers to the Baton Rouge train, and vice versa.

Louisiana has plenty of gambling opportunities, so the Mississippi casinos would not be a big draw. But Louisiana has basically no beaches -- certainly none to compete with those on the Mississippi Coast. (Sand is pumped to create and maintain these beaches by the Army Corps of Engineers, thus making them, like Amtrak, a service paid for by federal funds.)

Both the Mobile and Baton Rouge corridors would use freed-up Horizon coaches, if their replacements ever arrive on the Midwest corridors.

 

[Karl1459]

That's not used car negotiating rules, that's the rules of negotiating anything where the selling party is willing to sell.

Then there is government contract negotiating rules... bid low on flawed specifications and charge through the nose for change orders.

 

[Carolina Special]

CSX is evidently telling shippers to expect "bumps in the road" including extra days for shipping times as CSX tightens up schedules. This comes from today's earning call. Claiming short-term pain for long-term gain.

Probably not a good sign for Amtrak negotiations along the Gulf Coast.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

If the service does get restored, would it make more sense to route it through Jacksonville or Orlando, FL?

 

[Woodcut60]

Seventeen drawbridges. Wow! That sounds not good in terms of On-Time Performance for the proposed route.