Proposals for Restored Gulf Coast Service

[jis]

PTC requirements from FRA may be an issue.

 

[Palmetto]

PTC requirements from FRA may be an issue.

A BIG issue.

 

[jis]

All very interesting. I'm wondering how far along the discussions are between Amtrak and CSX concerning infrastructure improvements required by the latter, if any. My impression is that the route is not heavily populated with CSX traffic for most of the way, so perhaps there'll be nothing earth-shaking coming from CSX.

Overall the current state that I have heard from various sources is that it is at least three to five years away. It will take that much time to line the ducks up and execute on the modifications needed to get the thing going. Some very optimistic people are saying two years, but I cannot see how anyone would be able to pull that off even if Congress actually appropriated the money in the 2018 spending bill.

 

[Shanghai]

Perhaps the termination point should be Tampa rather than Orlando.

The currently is a wy capability in use for the Silver Star and the city

of Tampa is one of the fastest growing cities in the USA.

 

[jis]

Perhaps the termination point should be Tampa rather than Orlando.

The currently is a wy capability in use for the Silver Star and the city

of Tampa is one of the fastest growing cities in the USA.

The choice of Orlando is because it is close to Sanford where the consist can be serviced. There is more to turning a train than just putting it around a wye. The Tampa servicing base could be reinstated, but that costs more money, when we don;t even have the money to start the basic service, and Florida State that will not throw in a single dime as long as we have the current government in Florida. Florida DOT is conspicuously absent from the group that is trying too restore this service, and no attempt so far to get the current government to make a move on that has born any fruit so far.

 

[ToniCounter]

were there ever any Amtrak service from Chicago to stations in Florida?

 

[jis]

Yes. The Floridian. Chicago to Miami.

 

[battalion51]

Yes, the Floridian was run until 1979 via Nashville and Birmingham.

Also, as to the Tampa idea, it looks like they're going to try and turn the eastbound train for the westbound same day (note only two additional sets of equipment needed). If the train continued to Tampa that would be impossible. Even turning same day in Sanford seems like a heavy lift to me, but I guess if the eastbound is late they could just make up a set from equipment in the yard at Sanford.

 

[ToniCounter]

Yes. The Floridian. Chicago to Miami.

What Amtrak trains would I have been on, if travelling from Washington, DC to Orlando, FL, back in 1980 or 1981?

(sadly, I only remember 2 things about the train... pretty good food in the dining car... and multiple BIG roaches in the coach cars!!!)

Thanks!

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Yes. The Floridian. Chicago to Miami.

What Amtrak trains would I have been on, if travelling from Washington, DC to Orlando, FL, back in 1980 or 1981?

(sadly, I only remember 2 things about the train... pretty good food in the dining car... and multiple BIG roaches in the coach cars!!!)

Thanks!

Same ones that exist today:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19811025&item=0029

They also had the Silver Palm/Palmetto to Florida but they eventually got truncated to Savannah.

 

[ToniCounter]

Same ones that exist today:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19811025&item=0029

They also had the Silver Palm/Palmetto to Florida but they eventually got truncated to Savannah.

wait. is there a chance that the same cars are still running today???

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Is there a proposed schedule yet for the route? Will it have connections to the Silver Star and/or Silver Meteor? Personally if there will be a bus connection rather than train between Orlando and Tampa I would rather go via WAS. At least going south a direct train to Tampa is available and one could easily be made going north with few adjustments to the schedule. I also believe the scenery to be better going via WAS.

I believe the mileage is actually shorter via the CL and SM and is only slightly longer between the CL and SS when compared to the CONO. Of course, if there was a connection between the CONO and SS I would definitely take that going north rather than the TPA-ORL bus to connect to the SM.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Is there a proposed schedule yet for the route?

Yes, jjs's post on the previous page (#49)

 

[jis]

Is there a proposed schedule yet for the route? Will it have connections to the Silver Star and/or Silver Meteor?

For a reference to the document that contains the proposed schedule for the proposed New Orleans - Orlando service see message 49 above.

The CONO extension is one of the choices among three. I understand that many of the locals prefer the separate train option due to the likelihood of a more reliable schedules for the largest number of expected users of the service, but the CONO option overall costs less. So it is not quite given that the CONO option will be finally chosen. Either way, the distance is such that it will be a national system train.

And no, it does not connect with the Silver Star either northbound or southbound at Orlando or Jacksonville.

 

[Palmetto]

Same ones that exist today:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19811025&item=0029

They also had the Silver Palm/Palmetto to Florida but they eventually got truncated to Savannah.

wait. is there a chance that the same cars are still running today???

Only the dining cars.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

If we delay eastbound 2 and southbound 97 then Tallahassee on 2 and Savannah on 97 will get better call times, while Pensacola gets 11:45pm. (Tallahassee at 6am, Savannah at 7:40am)

How will that go?

And westbound really can't get fixed. Pensacola will be in the graveyard shift westbound, but I'd rather leave it rather than putting Mobile in it too.

 

[keelhauled]

If we delay eastbound 2 and southbound 97 then Tallahassee on 2 and Savannah on 97 will get better call times, while Pensacola gets 11:45pm. (Tallahassee at 6am, Savannah at 7:40am)

How will that go?

And westbound really can't get fixed. Pensacola will be in the graveyard shift westbound, but I'd rather leave it rather than putting Mobile in it too.

Lengthening the eastbound schedule makes an already tight (4 hour) same day turn in Orlando even harder. So the answer is badly. I don't know what relevance 97 has to anything, it connects southbound on its existing schedule just fine, and 2 is entirely out of the picture.

 

[jis]

Yeah. I think the proposed schedule is just fine and does not really need to be changed. Any improvement in connectivity will be very marginal at the cost of inconveniencing many locally.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I don't think you gain much by connecting from a Gulf Coast route to either the Silver Meteor/Star. New Orleans has direct access to the NEC already with the Crescent.

I would like to see more connectivity in NOL but with the SL leaving early morning and arriving in the evening kills any possible same day connections as is the case in CHI. Florida to Texas will at the very least require a connection and an overnight stay.

 

[battalion51]

The idea behind Meteor connectivity is mostly to allow connections to the rest of Florida. Passengers stay on the CONO til Orlando, and then get on the Meteor (where it usually has a lot of surplus capacity from folks exiting there). Certainly it opens the door to connections at Jacksonville to parts of the Carolinas with a longer connection time, or for those boarding on the Gulf a Coast to reach the Northeast.

 

[Hytec]

It will be interesting to see what affect the new Amtrak President's policy and personnel changes have on this proposal. Hopefully, before the end of 2017 we will see a trend in his management actions regarding nationwide LD train service. I know both of Mississippi's Senators are 100% behind restoration and have their staffs actively working the proper Washington and State corridors. I only hope that Alabama's and Florida's Senators share that enthusiasm and effort.

 

[jis]

It is Congress' appropriation which is way more critical than Amtrak CEO's policy I think. All the policy in the world cannot be acted upon without money.

In Florida, Nelson shares the enthusiasm and Rubio definitely does not (that is when actually deigns to present himself in the Senate and vote at all). He is up for re-election if he makes it through the primary on the 30th. It is the Alabama folks who are really enthusiastic. Louisiana is lukewarm.

 

[Hytec]

It is Congress' appropriation which is way more critical than Amtrak CEO's policy I think. All the policy in the world cannot be acted upon without money.

In Florida, Nelson shares the enthusiasm and Rubio definitely does not (that is when actually deigns to present himself in the Senate and vote at all). He is up for re-election if he makes it through the primary on the 30th. It is the Alabama folks who are really enthusiastic. Louisiana is lukewarm.

I agree whole-heartedly, that's why I raised the behind-the-scenes persuasion role of Senators Cochran and Wicker and their staffs. Without the legislative thrust, even the greatest of plans is dead in the water. MS, AL, and FL, both Federal and State, are the major players. Louisiana is a minor player in this issue. LA would have no station stops. LA's only benefit might be Coastal travelers wanting to enjoy NOLA as an interim or end-point destination. Otherwise these trains would let New Orleanians leave the Big Easy to enjoy MS casinos, and FL beaches.

 

[jis]

The fly in the ointment at present is there is very little support in the Florida legislature or in the Governor's office. It is mostly an Alabama project for now with some town and county level support in a far corner of Florida. There is strong support from a Dem Congresswoman who is under indictment and probably will lose the upcoming election.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I didn't mean connection. Just wanted to improve Tallahassee at 5am. I didn't spot the tight turn around time at ORL.