Restoration of New Orleans - Mobile - Jacksonville Gulf Coast Service

[jis]

Great news.

If it weren't for the delays, I would love the Sunset to go back to Florida. I would definitely take it.

Maybe, if the SAS-LAX portion of the TE goes daily, the stub train will continue on to Florida?

For now nothing is going to Florida. It is just NOL to Mobile twice a day service. That’s it.

 

[Cal]

For now nothing is going to Florida. It is just NOL to Mobile twice a day service. That’s it.

Yep, but still, having it go to Florida and the stub train going to Florida (if it ever happens), would be nice

 

[Qapla]

A year or two ago we could have said "for now nothing is going to Mobile" ... we can hope/wish/dream - can't we ??

 

[jis]

A year or two ago we could have said "for now nothing is going to Mobile" ... we can hope/wish/dream - can't we ??

Nobody is stopping anyone from dreaming by merely stating currently known facts. Those two are in different universes, one of facts and the other of dreams and desires.

 

[Qapla]

And five years ago going from NOL to Mobile was dreaming ... especially for twice daily service. Who knows what another 5 years could bring

 

[Cal]

And five years ago going from NOL to Mobile was dreaming ... especially for twice daily service. Who knows what another 5 years could bring

Especially with this new administration. Really curious to see what Amtrak brings us

 

[IndyLions]

For now nothing is going to Florida. It is just NOL to Mobile twice a day service. That’s it.

For my retired family friend living on Dauphin Island – this is exactly what she needs. When it is established, she will be able to travel easily round-trip between Kalamazoo Michigan and Mobile Alabama via Amtrak.

Of course, that assumes they don’t screw up the connection with the City of New Orleans. With two daily roundtrips, you would think at least one of them would connect.

 

[Palmetto]

And five years ago going from NOL to Mobile was dreaming ... especially for twice daily service. Who knows what another 5 years could bring

I'm afraid you'll need a strong change of heart in the Florida government to get to that point. I hope it happens, but am pessimistic.

 

[jis]

If the funding can be found and trackage rights from a short line that owns most of the route in Florida secured then a single train per day is planned between NOL and Orlando. It is all documented including a proposed timetable in the Southern Rail Commission Report done some five or so years back. But that is not the option from the report that is being implemented at this time. It may be implemented someday.

 

[jimdex]

if you read between the lines, it looks to me like Amtrak is telling CSX it "intends" to start service, but CSX has not yet agreed to host the train. I wonder is this is the prelude for a court fight.

 

[jis]

if you read between the lines, it looks to me like Amtrak is telling CSX it "intends" to start service, but CSX has not yet agreed to host the train. I wonder is this is the prelude for a court fight.

This has more to do with Amtrak signaling a sea change in its management's guiding principle. What will or will not come out of it on this particular proposal is a different matter altogether. Fingers crossed though. It would be nice to have it.

 

[DonNewcomb]

It needs to be restored to JAX

What we need is usable passenger service that connects NOL to Mobile. By that, I mean service that is frequent enough for day trips between New Orleans and the cities on the Gulf Coast and which connects to the Crescent, Sunset and CONO. I've lived my whole life on the route of the Sunset and I can assure you it was a completely unusable train that ran infrequently and at useless hours. It connected to no other train at NOL. Useless.

......Of course, that assumes they don’t screw up the connection with the City of New Orleans. With two daily roundtrips, you would think at least one of them would connect.

This is a key point. It all depends on connections in New Orleans. Unless you can connect to the other trains it will be an almost complete waste of effort. Useful only for fun trips to and from New Orleans. BTW, the street car does connect Union Station in New Orleans to the Canal Street interchange zone, the French Quarter, Aquarium, etc. So all the parts are there. It just depends on implementation.

As soon as anyone gets a tentative timetable, I'd like to look at it.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

What we need is usable passenger service that connects NOL to Mobile. By that, I mean service that is frequent enough for day trips between New Orleans and the cities on the Gulf Coast and which connects to the Crescent, Sunset and CONO. I've lived my whole life on the route of the Sunset and I can assure you it was a completely unusable train that ran infrequently and at useless hours. It connected to no other train at NOL. Useless.



This is a key point. It all depends on connections in New Orleans. Unless you can connect to the other trains it will be an almost complete waste of effort. Useful only for fun trips to and from New Orleans. BTW, the street car does connect Union Station in New Orleans to the Canal Street interchange zone, the French Quarter, Aquarium, etc. So all the parts are there. It just depends on implementation.

As soon as anyone gets a tentative timetable, I'd like to look at it.

This was the proposed schedule as of Summer 2019.

 

[Cal]

I've lived my whole life on the route of the Sunset and I can assure you it was a completely unusable train that ran infrequently and at useless hours. It connected to no other train at NOL. Useless.

I believe the Sunset involved in the Bayou Canot Crash was only 30 minutes late, which is a shame

 

[DonNewcomb]

This was the proposed schedule as of Summer 2019.

Ariving NOLA 1023 and 2023 and departing 0800 and 1745

So, according to the timetable I have (which may be out of date) these are the current arrivals and departures at NOL:
Crescent 1932 0700
CONO 1532 1345
Sunset 2140 0900

Can you see the problem? Am I reading it right? Two out of 6 connections ain't good. Every connection except CONO requires an overnight in NOLA. It's fine for people who want to go straight north to Chicago but what about travelers who'd like to connect from Mobile to L.A.? The average traveler (vs rail enthusiasts) won't consider an overnight in New Orleans, waiting for a train, to be worthwhile and will just fly instead. The real problem is that everything is synced out of Chicago. Nothing is synced in New Orleans. The same issue applies to travelers from L.A. who'd like to connect to the Crescent, It is simply not practical.

They could satisfy the demand with a pair of diesel rail cars if they could pass buff strength test. Meaning, I foresee ridership below 100 pax per day.

 

[Sidney]

At least it's something. Extending to Mobile is a start,but it would be nice to extend to Jacksonville,where connections can be made to the Silvers and make Amtrak truly a coast to coast service again

 

[jis]

It is literally quite impossible to both connect to the Sunset and Crescent and also provide a useful local service. Since this is going to be mostly funded locally, and its primary goal is to serve local users, connections will be second priority, specially when it makes the service less conveient for local users. This is nothing that was not known before. This has been the plan all along in the Southern Rail Commission document prepared by Amtrak, which contains ridership estimates too. Since people seem to have short memories, here is a link to the document that is guiding all these activities related to Gulf Coast Service.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...0139160/Gulf+Coast+Initiative+Report+2015.pdf

 

[DonNewcomb]

...... This is nothing that was not known before. .....

Understood. It's not rocket science. The real problem is that New Orleans is Amtrak's version of Mist County*, MN (Lake Wobegon) It's where all the loose ends got bundled up and stuffed out of the way. Not a place you go to make any rail connection. So, a new service in NOLA starts out with the deck stacked against it. Too bad.

*For those not familiar with the fictional Mist County, the tale goes that rather than being surveyed from a central point outward, Minnesota was surveyed from the edges inward. When the survey teams met in the middle, they found they had made a number of math errors and created Mist County to avoid having to redo the survey. That's why it doesn't appear on any maps.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm afraid you'll need a strong change of heart in the Florida government to get to that point. I hope it happens, but am pessimistic.

Agreed.

Bringing more interstate passenger rail to Florida requires meaningful support at the state government level. As we've seen before a pro-rail federal administration alone is not enough to make this happen. The state government can easily undermine or simply refuse such assistance. Hoping, wishing, & dreaming for more and better service is all well and good but as with so many modern problems finding sufficient political will remains the most critical roadblock.

 

[jis]

Basically in a rational world, Crescent should simply be split at Birmingham or a regional service run from Birmingham to Mobile. That pretty much removes the Crescent connection at NOL issue in the direction of Mobile. Of course Alabama has not exactly been enthusiastic about any train going to Mobile so they are unlikely to be helpful for a service purely within Alabama either at this point. The only reasonable possibility at present is as a section of the Crescent funded as part of the LD funding.

The reality is that the NOL - Mobile service is mostly championed by Senator Wicker of Mississippi and folks in Mississippi and Louisiana with Alabama being dragged along for the ride for now.

As for the Sunset Limited, connecting to a train that arrives at 9pm and often runs late, is a guarantee for destroying any local ridership. The entire Sunset Limited setup needs to be reorganized to get more reasonable connectable times at New Orleans. Just throwing a tantrum about it is not going to make things happen.

 

[Palmland]

Getting back to this topic, wasn’t one of the original scenarios for this service to continue the CONO to Mobile? That possibility would certainly guarantee connectivity to Mobile and make use of equipment that would otherwise sit idle until the next day’s train. The possible schedule posted above seems to mesh reasonably well with CONO arrival and departure times. Turning and servicing in Mobile might be a problem though.

But wouldn’t it be nice to have a one seat ride to the gulf resorts from the midwest with, perhaps, thruway service continuing to Florida resort areas like Destin and Panama Ciry Beach. The second train should be Superliner with a SSL handling the cafe chores.

 

[Qapla]

Just curious ... can a train be fully turned in Mobile?? Physically, maintenance and restocking?

 

[DonNewcomb]

.....The reality is that the NOL - Mobile service is mostly championed by Senator Wicker of Mississippi.....

When they did the test run between New Orleans and Mobile and they let him bring the train into Gulfport, he was like a kid in a candy shop. Yeah, Wicker wants this.

....But wouldn’t it be nice to have a one seat ride to the gulf resorts from the midwest with, perhaps, thruway service continuing to Florida resort areas like Destin and Panama Ciry Beach.....

Mississippi really wants to see the tourists come to the casinos on the Gulf Coast. It's a short walk from the train stations in Biloxi and Gulfport to casinos (and they'll be happy to send a bus to meet the trains). The Florida panhandle is tougher. The tracks don't run anywhere near the beach resorts. Thruway bus might be the better option there. Besides, that whole stretch was served by the Sunset at oh-dark-thirty. Very inconvenient schedule between P'cola and Tallahassee.

 

[Cal]

Just curious ... can a train be fully turned in Mobile?? Physically, maintenance and restocking?

I'm assuming they have that covered. Or the trains will just have a small miniatous facility such as the ones in San Diego, Goleta, or San Luis Obispo. And have any big repairs be done at NOL.

 

[John Bredin]

This was the proposed schedule as of Summer 2019.

I don't know if this schedule has a morning and afternoon round-trip to be able to run two trainsets with two crews doing split-shifts, but you can get three round-trips out of two trainsets if you posit a turnaround of about 1.5 hours. I don't know if that's doable if the trainsets have a cafe. Or four round-trips if you posit a turnaround of about a half-hour, which I'm sure is NOT doable with a cafe.