Restoration of New Orleans - Mobile - Jacksonville Gulf Coast Service

[cirdan]

My understanding is that won’t happen unless there is a change in state level leadership in Alabama. I believe the lack of support by Governor Kay Ivey killed any extension East of Mobile and is also the reason why the city has to provide the funding in place of the state government. The original proposal included the multiple frequencies to Mobile with a single train operating to Florida.

Isn't east of Mobile pretty much Florida anyway? With such a small part of the total mileage in Alabama, and Mobile on board already, should it matter at all what the rest of Alabama thinks?

 

[DonNewcomb]

I believe the proposed twice daily schedule for the Mobile service would connect to the CONO, but not the Crescent or SL.

Could be. The proposal has changed over time and I may not be up on the latest instantiation. At one time they were proposing to extend the Crescent from NOLA out to Mobile but that could be "yesterday's news". I'd like to see a twice-daily run that would allow for nice day-trips between NOLA and Biloxi/Gulfport. You can walk from the Gulfport station to one casino and several nice restaurants. There's a streetcar between NOLA's Union Station and Canal Street, where you can transfer to any other streetcar line.

Isn't east of Mobile pretty much Florida anyway? With such a small part of the total mileage in Alabama, and Mobile on board already, should it matter at all what the rest of Alabama thinks?

Folks in Baldwin County might take offense at that. It's just as common to refer to that part of the Florida Panhand (Escambia-Walton Counties) as "Lower Alabama".

 

[Qapla]

Yes, the State Line is only 40 miles on I-10 and Pensacola is only another 18 miles - although I am not sure the train takes such a direct route

The problem in getting service restored to JAX is not getting from Mobile to Florida - it is getting from Pensacola to JAX ... the host RR has not been overly eager to allow this.

 

[DonNewcomb]

The problem in getting service restored to JAX is not getting from Mobile to Florida - it is getting from Pensacola to JAX ... the host RR has not been overly eager to allow this.

That an the fact that the line from Mobile to Pensacola goes via Bay Minette and Flomaton adding unnecessary hours to an already slow journey. It would be much quicker to bus everyone from Mobile to P'cola then restart the train there.

 

[Palmland]

That an the fact that the line from Mobile to Pensacola goes via Bay Minette and Flomaton adding unnecessary hours to an already slow journey. It would be much quicker to bus everyone from Mobile to P'cola then restart the train there.

So true. The circuitous routing of the railroad via Flomaton resulted in a run time of 2hr 45min for the Gulf Wind in the 60’s. Google says driving time is 54 min. A thruway bus is the answer and perhaps continue on to the gulf beaches at Fort Walton, Destin, and Panama City. But, good luck getting Florida or Alabama to pay for it.

 

[west point]

How crooked is it ? Very ! Mobile to Pensacola to Crestview. I-10 about 95 miles. CSX - L&N ) is about 160 miles. Flomaton is where the Florida line breaks off the CSX main line MOB = MGM. Flomaton is approximately 42 miles due north of downtown Pensacola. The line from north of Pensacola to downtown PNS to around the bluffs on the east side of PNS is slow ( 20 - 30 MPH ), Once downtown was street running and may still be ? Just imagine a giant horseshoe of 30 miles tip to tip and only 12 miles as the crow flies . Even I-10 goes north of PNS with a I-110 North - south of 11 miles to downtown.
does not

 

[neroden]

Frankly Mobile to Montgomery to Atlanta makes more sense than the Flomaton route. Also won't be funded though.

 

[west point]

Frankly Mobile to Montgomery to Atlanta makes more sense than the Flomaton route. Also won't be funded though.

Well Flomaton is on the route MGM <> MOB. Do you mean Flomaton - Pensacola - Tallahassee - JAX ?.

 

[DonNewcomb]

Frankly Mobile to Montgomery to Atlanta makes more sense than the Flomaton route. Also won't be funded though.

From time to time, I've mused on the idea of routes such as Gulfport-Jackson and Mobile-Birmingham. They might possibly have been viable in the days of diesel rail-cars but not so much with the buff-strength restrictions in-force today.

 

[drdumont]

That an the fact that the line from Mobile to Pensacola goes via Bay Minette and Flomaton adding unnecessary hours to an already slow journey. It would be much quicker to bus everyone from Mobile to P'cola then restart the train there.

My first response is "GAAAHHH!". But if that is what it would take, a very short bus ride, I would almost consider that a beating I just have to take.

 

[neroden]

Well Flomaton is on the route MGM <> MOB. Do you mean Flomaton - Pensacola - Tallahassee - JAX ?.

I mean "the Flomaton route to Pensacola", yes. It's just so out of the way.

 

[Qapla]

On post-after-post throughout this forum people keep saying they take the train "for the ride" - not because it is "fast" ... now we want to complain that a train that will offer the splendid view of the Gulf Coast and the panhandle of Florida is "too slow" - and yet, the winding trek through the Rockies is "spectacular" and shouldn't be missed?

 

[west point]

Yes PNS - Tallahassee is out of the way. But there are other concerns.
1. CSX has turned over PNS - JAX to a short line. Will they even want a passenger train ?
2. Did CSX sneak in a no passenger train clause like the IND - Louisville route ? Think that will be hard to enforce but ? ?
3. Will PNS - JAX deteriorate to a 25 MPH road?
4.. Will short line allow many slow orders ( 10 MPH ) to become permanent ? Or worse excepted track preventing passenger trains.
5. Maintenance of the many draw bridges and fixed bridges some that are draws that have been locked closed ?

 

[Qapla]

Maybe I am missing something - but I don't really understand why, now that they voted to restore service from NOLO to Mobile, it should take 3 years to implement - it seems like 6 months should be long enough ... or, at least, by the end of the year.

 

[Qapla]

Yes PNS - Tallahassee is out of the way.

I'm sure there are many FSU students and families living in the panhandle that agree with you

 

[DonNewcomb]

Maybe I am missing something - but I don't really understand why, now that they voted to restore service from NOLO to Mobile, it should take 3 years to implement - it seems like 6 months should be long enough ... or, at least, by the end of the year.

They have a station to build in Mobile. The old one was sold off post Katrina. I think Gulfport, Bioxi and Pascagoula are almost ready. In Biloxi they have to move the landing 50 yards east and upgrade it to new standards. It's across the street from the main bus station but not connected. Not sure about Bay St. Louis.

 

[Suze10860]

Not sure about Bay St. Louis.

This is from a local newspaper article (The Sea Coast Echo) from almost a year ago, March 2019.

“The Bay St. Louis city government and Hancock County Board of Supervisors are expected to invest $50,000 each in upgrading the existing BSL Depot to make it ADA-compliant for train passengers.”

I can tell you that the original Bay St. Louis station is currently the “Depot Visitor Center” and houses the most wonderful Bay St. Louis Mardi Gras Museum downstairs and the Alice Moseley Folk Art & Antique Museum upstairs. No matter what the ultimate plan turns out to be, I’m very sure that Bay St. Louis will do all they can to facilitate whatever it takes to get this route up and running.

This little beach town is already a spectacular spot in which to live or visit, and the return of the Gulf Coast service will only make it even better. So happy these 2 almost-ready-to-retire New Jerseyites found this beautiful Mississippi town!

 

[Palmetto]

I question whether the paltry sum of $100,000.00 will bring the station up to snuff. Didn't I see somewhere that it cost $1,000,000.00 to install a mini-high in the Northeast?

 

[jis]

I question whether the paltry sum of $100,000.00 will bring the station up to snuff. Didn't I see somewhere that it cost $1,000,000.00 to install a mini-high in the Northeast?

A relevant question to ask may be why does it take a million to build a mini-high in the Northeast.

 

[Suze10860]

A relevant question to ask may be why does it take a million to build a mini-high in the Northeast.

I tend to agree with this, although I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about this entire process. Don't even know what a "mini-high" is.

But I will say that comparing Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, to anything in the Northeast is absolutely an apples to oranges situation. I'll continue to put my faith in BSL, as the restoration of this rail service has been a mission for the entire community for years. I feel confident they've got a good handle on what it's going to take from their side to get it done.

 

[JC_620]

Dumb question maybe but why not just return the Sunset Limited to the route like it once had previously? If not extending it to Miami or Orlando, terminate in Jacksonville?

Call me nostalgic. My next wish is for actual passenger train service into Phoenix and not 30 miles south of it, and then the return of the Desert Wind into Las Vegas!!

 

[jis]

Sunset extension will never be as reliable as a stand alone train and as things stand it will also not be a daily train. Also a consist that has been on the road for two days is not likely to be as clean as a stand alone properly serviced train. That is primarily why the Southern Rail Commission has removed the Sunset extension alternative from further consideration.

 

[MARC Rider]

On post-after-post throughout this forum people keep saying they take the train "for the ride" - not because it is "fast" ... now we want to complain that a train that will offer the splendid view of the Gulf Coast and the panhandle of Florida is "too slow" - and yet, the winding trek through the Rockies is "spectacular" and shouldn't be missed?

Some people on this forum say they take the train "for the ride," but such people, while they're a small, but essential part of the market share for train travel, are only a small fraction of the total market. Government support for train travel is predicated on the basis that the service has value as practical transportation. To do that, it has to be roughly as fast as driving. You might get away with it being a little slower for overnight trips, where even trundling along at 30 mph on a circuitous route is faster than a car and driver sitting still in a motel, the driver sleeping, going nowhere. But any day trip should have a point to point average speed of at least 50 mph on a route that is of similar distance to the highway equivalent.

 

[niemi24s]

. . .any day trip should have a point to point average speed of at least 50 mph on a route that is of similar distance to the highway equivalent.

FWIW, a day trip from Pensacola to Orlando on the pre-Katrina SL averaged 36.5mph. And a day trip on the remaining SL leg from NOL to SAS averages 29.4mph.

Uh-oh!!

 

[Siegmund]

Government support for train travel is predicated on the basis that the service has value as practical transportation. To do that, it has to be roughly as fast as driving...

I would amend that slightly: it *either* has to be roughly as fast as driving, *or* it has to offer me the ability to do something I can't while driving or flying --- for instance, I can sit and read, or work offline on a laptop, much more easily on a train than I can while driving (or while a passenger in someone else's car, or while flying.) In my part of the world, with 80mph speed limits on all the interstates and very few traffic jams, the train never wins on speed alone.

There is a market for slow-but-comfortable. There's a market for moving offices, fully equipped with phone service and fast internet.
There's a market for "isn't it nice to get directly from downtown to downtown without having to be at the wheel in a traffic jam."

None of these markets is "everybody." But they are all legitimate markets. Slower than but more comfortable than a plane is a big market over distances of a few hundred miles. Slower than driving but less stress than fighting traffic and looking for parking describes a lot of suburban service. (And in a few cases - in the NEC, and for instance a subway under a gridlocked downtown - the train is actually faster.)

Now which of those markets should Amtrak stress?
There was a time when the social and relaxed atmosphere was a big selling point. It seems to be less so now (and the lack of wifi and cell service on western trains is turning into a sizable negative.)
Maybe selling electronically capable roomettes to businessmen for day trips is a real new market to consider. Maybe Japanese style sleepers for 10-hour trips is a real new market.

Most of that marketing relates to the onboard amenities. ALL of those markets require the train to be frequent and on time.