Revival of Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner

[Palmland]

A Heritage 24-8 slumbercoach had capacity for 40.
A Heritage 16-10 slumbercoach had capacity for 36.

They were bare bones but did the job. My one trip in one of the NYC slumbercoaches was unremarkable and wasn’t aware of much difference from a roomette (thinner mattress -like Amtrak, linoleum floors).

No doubt the design plans Bombardier - now Alstom- acquired from Budd in 1987 are still in their archives. But Amtrak insists on reinventing the wheel.

 

[Amtrak25]

But there are other options for solo travelers that would provide both higher passenger density and better sleeping accommodations.

There were 44 - 48 seat leg rest coaches with Sleepy Hollow seats and coach attendants passed out pillows. But now passenger railroads are content to have whatever Euro Corridor junk Siemens puts in them, which are gloriifed commuter train seats. Business class (Amtrak)/First class (VIA) does not mean wider seats even though they could have been 33% wider without narrowing the aisles.

Boardman got rid of pillows. Had he not done so, Anderson and Gardner would have. There is no institutional memory of Slumbercoaches and such cars were retired when Gardner was in grade school.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

A bunch of MBTA coaches are for sale, some work needed. No AC, brakes, wheels. Feel free to drop a few bucks and refit them with lie flat seats.

https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipmentGrid.php?category=Passenger Equipment

Amtrak will be sure to run you into bankruptcy if you dare try to run them on the back of any of there trains.

 

[Amtrak25]

A bunch of MBTA coaches are for sale, some work needed. No AC, brakes, wheels. Feel free to drop a few bucks and refit them with lie flat seats.

https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipmentGrid.php?category=Passenger Equipment

Amtrak will be sure to run you into bankruptcy if you dare try to run them on the back of any of there trains.

They are Pullmans Standards, silmilar to NJT Comet-I's, from 1978.

What about bathrooms ?

I think they are beyond redemption except for tourist railroads.

EXO has about 30 similar Bombardier-built cars, lacking traps and bathrooms, and were retired in 2023. Those would be a better bet.

 

[jiml]

No doubt the design plans Bombardier - now Alstom- acquired from Budd in 1987 are still in their archives. But Amtrak insists on reinventing the wheel.

That's certainly true, and in fact Bombardier built the second Superliner batch, however some of Amtrak's "reinventing the wheel" may come from more recent requirements forcing change or attempts to address shortcomings in the earlier versions. I'm not saying they are blameless - just that previous designs may not meet standards moving forward.

 

[Palmland]

I'm not saying they are blameless - just that previous designs may not meet standards moving forward.

I’m sure that’s true, especially regarding ADA requirements.

 

[thefirewarde]

The only way I can see a lay-flat coach working is if you can stack people somehow. Say you had the middle 52' able to stack seats somehow, with step down and step up seats each getting 6' 6" of length. That's a 32 seat core, with at least two additional ADA seats on the walkthrough level plus restrooms, an attendant office, HVAC and equipment and consumables storage. If you could get the minimum length down via nesting (like Amtrak's new Slumber-like coach) you might get 40+ lay flat seats that can dual-use daytime and nighttime. The concept deserves to be brought up every once in a while.

But getting the stacked layout is definitely more complicated than just buying more Ventures and bolting in some airline seats.

 

[Trogdor]

The only way I can see a lay-flat coach working is if you can stack people somehow. Say you had the middle 52' able to stack seats somehow, with step down and step up seats each getting 6' 6" of length. That's a 32 seat core, with at least two additional ADA seats on the walkthrough level plus restrooms, an attendant office, HVAC and equipment and consumables storage. If you could get the minimum length down via nesting (like Amtrak's new Slumber-like coach) you might get 40+ lay flat seats that can dual-use daytime and nighttime. The concept deserves to be brought up every once in a while.

But getting the stacked layout is definitely more complicated than just buying more Ventures and bolting in some airline seats.

Where would luggage storage go in such a layout?

Stacking top/bottom doesn’t really leave room for any overhead storage. Not sure the end of the car would have enough room for 32 suitcases. Would there be enough room next to the seat for storage without it being awkward/in the way?

 

[thefirewarde]

Great point. There's more width available (42" on each side of the isle, possibly a bit more) and we're only trying to fit one seat in that space. It's possible people could keep their luggage with them, next to their seats, but this isn't a fully modeled concept coach - just a hypothetical. There's a reason I don't work for Stadler!

Well. There's a lot of reasons and that's one of them.