RFP issued for Amfleet I replacement

[MARC Rider]

IIRC the Amfleets were originally designed to feel like airliners and the small windows for some reason.

The Northeast trains go through some neighborhoods in the cities where "youths", as they call them, like to throw rocks at passing trains. It's a lot less of a problem now than it was in the 1970s, but it still happens. Reports of rock throwing were part of what happened with the NER 188 derailment back in 2015.

Anyway, if the windows are smaller, there's less of a chance that a rock will hit it.

 

[20th Century Rider]

The Northeast trains go through some neighborhoods in the cities where "youths", as they call them, like to throw rocks at passing trains. It's a lot less of a problem now than it was in the 1970s, but it still happens. Reports of rock throwing were part of what happened with the NER 188 derailment back in 2015.

Anyway, if the windows are smaller, there's less of a chance that a rock will hit it.

no no no no!
No more rocks and no more of this.

Amtrak please let us breathe... keep the windows big and wide... let them open to allow in fresh air, and protect us from those want to cut off the oxygen... that we breathe. And for those disturbed youth... let us change the concept of our culture so that respect and caring thoughts pervade the space were trains with big window pass.

We must not block this attempt to open the windows to let us breathe in the fresh air because this is how we move forward for a better world... which we must hope... will prevail.

No no no... no agreement for giving in to societal failings. We can do better than this and we will!

 

[Andrew]

My prediction is that Amtrak will pick the Venture cosches for the new Amfleets. But, I have two questions:

Does Metra recently picking Alstom for new cars help Alstoms case in building the new Amfleets?

Is Siemens likely to be able to build a diesel-catenary Charger locomotive for trains that travel off of the NEC? (If not, than Amtrak should maybe pick a modified Stadler FLIRT train instead).

 

[sttom]

My prediction is that Amtrak will pick the Venture cosches for the new Amfleets. But, I have two questions:

Does Metra recently picking Alstom for new cars help Alstoms case in building the new Amfleets?

Is Siemens likely to be able to build a diesel-catenary Charger locomotive for trains that travel off of the NEC? (If not, than Amtrak should maybe pick a modified Stadler FLIRT train instead).

Yes Siemens has a dual mode engine that it could probably modify for work in the US. I am not sure how many they would need for service along the NEC and run off the NEC.

https://assets.new.siemens.com/siem...ns-mobility-brochure-vectron-dual-mode-en.pdf

 

[Andrew]

ok but I wonder if the Siemens Charger could have as much horsepower in electric mode as the Sprinters do?

 

[sttom]

The Chargers are 4400 horse power and I believe the ACSs are 6000 horse power.

 

[PVD]

For the ACS-64

Power output	6,400 kW (8,600 hp) Maximum (Short-Time) 5,000 kW (6,700 hp) Continuous

 

[PVD]

I won't say it isn't possible, but it wouldn't be easy given size and weight constraints. The closest I can think of off the top of my head in the US is the ALP 45DP and it isn't there, and it pushes weight and size limits. There is a fair amount of room required for HEP equipment for diesel ops.

 

[jis]

I won't say it isn't possible, but it wouldn't be easy given size and weight constraints. The closest I can think of off the top of my head in the US is the ALP 45DP and it isn't there, and it pushes weight and size limits. There is a fair amount of room required for HEP equipment for diesel ops.

In a modern diesel electric engine, what space do you require other than for an addition Inverter and associated control circuitry, attached to the common power bus, to provide HEP?

 

[PVD]

That's about it, but a few feet is a few feet when you are tight for space. Assuming transformer/rectifier/inverter for the under the wire ops, again not separately a big thing, but it all adds up.

 

[west point]

A problem with a dual mode CAT / Diesel might be the needed weight reduction of the shell and frame might cause it to fatigue fairly fast. So if you buy them they might all wear out in 10 years especially operating on rough freight RR tracks. Look at the P-42s that shook the trucks apart when they were not repaired properly. 5 year truck replacements have cost Amtrak dearly.

 

[Andrew]

Stadler Flirt trains are currently 3 or 4 coaches with a Powerpack vehicle. But, does anyone know if Stadler Flirt trains could be 8 coaches long with a larger Powerpack car?

 

[jiml]

Stadler Flirt trains are currently 3 or 4 coaches with a Powerpack vehicle. But, does anyone know if Stadler Flirt trains could be 8 coaches long with a larger Powerpack car?

They exist in Europe and the UK has some much longer ones on Greater Anglia:

Also, both the UK and other European countries seem to have no problem lashing two sets of any kind of MU together to lengthen the train.

 

[Andrew]

They exist in Europe and the UK has some much longer ones on Greater Anglia:

Also, both the UK and other European countries seem to have no problem lashing two sets of any kind of MU together to lengthen the train.

But, I haven't seen any evidence of an 8 car diesel-catenary Stadler Flirt.

 

[jis]

A problem with a dual mode CAT / Diesel might be the needed weight reduction of the shell and frame might cause it to fatigue fairly fast. So if you buy them they might all wear out in 10 years especially operating on rough freight RR tracks. Look at the P-42s that shook the trucks apart when they were not repaired properly. 5 year truck replacements have cost Amtrak dearly.

Dual mode locomotives also generally have lower power ratings by quite a bit when compared to equivalent single mode locomotives. They appear to be wasteful when only a short segment of the total run at one end requires the e-mode, something that would be typical of LD trains into Penn Station and even the longer run Regional trains, e.g. the Palmetto or the Carolinians. Requires carrying around a lot of dead weight over a lot of distance merely to save 10-15 minute stop to change locomotives, in an overall running time of the order of 10 hours or more..

 

[41bridge]

[QUOTE="sttom, post: 872002, member: The narrow windows were down to people throwing rocks and them not have the technology to deal with rock impacts like we do today.
[/QUOTE]

Huh? What technology is that? Did they make rocks lighter?

 

[jis]

They exist in Europe and the UK has some much longer ones on Greater Anglia:

Also, both the UK and other European countries seem to have no problem lashing two sets of any kind of MU together to lengthen the train.

Didn't you know that the US is in an alternate universe where even the laws of Physics are different? LOL!

 

[railiner]

[QUOTE="sttom, post: 872002, member: The narrow windows were down to people throwing rocks and them not have the technology to deal with rock impacts like we do today.

Huh? What technology is that? Did they make rocks lighter?
[/QUOTE]
I think the fact that the windows were smaller, reduced their chances of being hit, somewhat. Being smaller, also makes it relatively stronger in its ability to resist penetration. They could have used bullet proof Lexan polycarbonate, however that material is not as resistant to scratching as glass, and gets 'cloudy' over time...not so critical in a commuter train, but not very nice for a long distance train where sightseeing is a feature...

 

[jis]

FRA Type II Glazing must be used on all side facing windows irrespective of size or shape. The details of the testing that the Type II glazing must pass are prescribe in Appendix A of 49 CFR Subtitle B Chapter II Part 223:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=49:4.1.1.1.18#se49.4.223_115
This has been the law since 1980, and requires retrofitting into cars built before 1980 that were overhauled since 1980.

 

[Andrew]

Regarding Amtrak operating trains south of DC and into Pittsburgh, what are the pros and cons of Amtrak picking dual-powered Charger vs. a modified Stadler trainset when it comes to propulsion?

 

[jiml]

But, I haven't seen any evidence of an 8 car diesel-catenary Stadler Flirt.

The Greater Anglia Class 755's are dual-mode and have been tested in a 7-car configuration with two of the walk-through "power pack" cars. This was only continued until the electric-only 745's were available in sufficient quantity to bump the DEMU's to the routes they were purchased for and back to their normal 3 and 4-car sets. (The 745's run with 10-12 cars.)

 

[Steve4031]

Changing engines in the USA takes longer than 10-15 minutes. Usually more like 30. So dual mode could save 30 minutes in Washington DC, Harrisburg and New Haven.

 

[jis]

Changing engines in the USA takes longer than 10-15 minutes. Usually more like 30. So dual mode could save 30 minutes in Washington DC, Harrisburg and New Haven.

It is much cheaper to train people to change engine in 15 minutes than to buy dual mode locomotives instead of adequate number of single mode locomotives. I do realize that anything that rationally reduces the cost of anything may not be a popular thing in the US culture though.

Also it is probably cheaper to extract 30 minutes from a 10+ hour schedule than throw money after expensive toys. But again, this is after all the US of A!

 

[jiml]

Until catenary is extended south of Washington to at least some destinations in Virginia, there is no real application for a dual-mode locomotive beyond what is already available (P32's in Empire Service). Now if a decision is taken to replace NER trains with MU's to complement the new Acelas, dual-modes make perfect sense and there are off-the-shelf models from several manufacturers that can switch power sources seamlessly. If locomotive-hauled coaches remain the choice, dual-mode engines were aptly described as "expensive toys".

 

[me_little_me]

[QUOTE="sttom, post: 872002, member: The narrow windows were down to people throwing rocks and them not have the technology to deal with rock impacts like we do today.

Huh? What technology is that? Did they make rocks lighter?
[/QUOTE]
Yes! They use Styrofoam now because it is white, unlike the old brown rocks.