RFP issued for Amfleet I replacement

[me_little_me]

I never knew Regionals had cafes. We rarely take them but when we have, we never think to look for the cafe because we always assumed they didn't have them. So much for Amtrak promoting its products.

 

[jis]

NE Regionals have them. Keystones don't. On early morning rides, I usually used to board in the Cafe which is in the middle of the train in standard consists for at least the last 15-20 years, so as to get a wakeup coffee and muffin or something like that, before going off hunting for a seat.

 

[Palmetto]

I never knew Regionals had cafes. We rarely take them but when we have, we never think to look for the cafe because we always assumed they didn't have them. So much for Amtrak promoting its products.

The only "advertising" is the mention of it in the timetable.

 

[MARC Rider]

The only "advertising" is the mention of it in the timetable.

Not true, there's a lighted sign at the end of each coach pointing the direction of the cafe. Frequently the cafe attendant gets on the PA to announce that he or she is open and serving. If that doesn't happen, the conductor is not shy about getting on the PA to announce when the cafe is closing temporarily (like when they change engines in Washington and the power is down.) The cafe car gets plenty of business. I believe it's one of the few Amtrak food services that has positive net revenue, even with Amtrak accounting.

 

[PVD]

I also see them on the Empire trains that go past Albany, as well as the EA, ML, and ADK. NYS chooses not to have the cars staffed on the trains that run NYP/ALB only, but the car is in the consist since one end of it is the BC seating on those trains.

 

[MARC Rider]

305 activities report - monthly 2-28-21.pdf (highspeed-rail.org)

According to this report, the Amfleet replacement is "progressing" and is in the "cone of silence" stage. It seems like proposals were received over (or almost) a year ago. Is it typical for reviews like this to take so long?

 

[jis]

I also see them on the Empire trains that go past Albany, as well as the EA, ML, and ADK. NYS chooses not to have the cars staffed on the trains that run NYP/ALB only, but the car is in the consist since one end of it is the BC seating on those trains.

I see you are really into cooking up random abbreviations to impress everyone eh? ADK for Adirondack? Really?

Anyway Other than the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack which have at times used Amfleet IIs in their consist, Empire Service generally uses a standard consist which includes the old 2-1 sitting half BC Cafe cars. They are part of the standard consist, and as mentioned the Cafe part is not staffed on the Albany terminator services.

 

[Andrew]

305 activities report - monthly 2-28-21.pdf (highspeed-rail.org)

According to this report, the Amfleet replacement is "progressing" and is in the "cone of silence" stage. It seems like proposals were received over (or almost) a year ago. Is it typical for reviews like this to take so long?

Would Alstom likely be the best chose for new Amfleet coaches if Amtrak does not choose Siemens?

 

[PVD]

ADK is a pretty common abbreviation in NY for the Adirondack region, it may have bled over into my AU posting unconsciously from other things I deal with., I probably should have used AD. But in sports, AD is generally athletic director, so ADK is often used for the region. Not made up or random, but in this case certainly misplaced.

 

[frequentflyer]

Would Alstom likely be the best chose for new Amfleet coaches if Amtrak does not choose Siemens?

Many are guessing this will be the case.

 

[jis]

ADK is a pretty common abbreviation in NY for the Adirondack region, it may have bled over into my AU posting unconsciously from other things I deal with., I probably should have used AD. But in sports, AD is generally athletic director, so ADK is often used for the region. Not made up or random, but in this case certainly misplaced.

Or you could simply type out Adirondack!

 

[jiml]

Would Alstom likely be the best chose for new Amfleet coaches if Amtrak does not choose Siemens?

Alstom, by acquisition, now own several of the patents for existing Amtrak stock, including the Horizon and Superliner 2 fleets. Whether that gives them any advantage, who knows?

 

[Andrew]

Many are guessing this will be the case.

Alstom, by acquisition, now own several of the patents for existing Amtrak stock, including the Horizon and Superliner 2 fleets. Whether that gives them any advantage, who knows?

I can see Amtrak choosing a mixed fleet of Venture Coaches and Alstom Coradia trains. Where does Stadler fit in?

 

[frequentflyer]

I can see Amtrak choosing a mixed fleet of Venture Coaches and Alstom Coradia trains. Where does Stadler fit in?

Earlier in this thread, much discussion has stated on this. In short, EMU/DMUs would be NEC and surrounding states, andregular coaches everywhere else. You pick which company fills what. Now keep in mind that was Mr. Anderson's plan, with a new CEO and Administration that can and probably has changed.

 

[jis]

Alstom, by acquisition, now own several of the patents for existing Amtrak stock, including the Horizon and Superliner 2 fleets. Whether that gives them any advantage, who knows?

All those patents have expired a long time back. I think you mean more of the "Design" rather than the patents.

I believe the Budd designs in general landed in Bombardier's laps though various paths too. But most of them are mostly irrelevant today. Even the Superliner designs won't work with the latest FRA standards and will likely need a redo. But Alstom is the one that did the latest incarnation of that genre in the Surfliner cars.

For single level cars Alstom has a couple of more modern designs than all of the historically acquired ones. They have tended to use the Fiat derived trucks under almost everything passenger that they have sold recently, other than the TGVs of course, which are a completely different kettle of fish.

 

[jiml]

All those patents have expired a long time back. I think you mean more of the "Design" rather than the patents.

I believe the Budd designs in general landed in Bombardier's laps though various paths too. But most of them are mostly irrelevant today. Even the Superliner designs won't work with the latest FRA standards and will likely need a redo. But Alstom is the one that did the latest incarnation of that genre in the Surfliner cars.

For single level cars Alstom has a couple of more modern designs than all of the historically acquired ones. They have tended to use the Fiat derived trucks under almost everything passenger that they have sold recently, other than the TGVs of course, which are a completely different kettle of fish.

I meant to type plans and it came out patents.

 

[rickycourtney]

The presentation that an Amtrak VP gave to the annual meeting of the Next Generation Equipment Committee does seem to suggest that they have decided that the Amfleet replacements will be multiple unit trainsets with diesel, electric, or dual-mode propulsion.

The LAFO (Last And Final Offer) has been made, and the FRA is reviewing the plans, presumably to weigh in on any safety concerns.

So, it sounds like we’re inching closer to an announcement.

 

[nullptr]

The presentation that an Amtrak VP gave to the annual meeting of the Next Generation Equipment Committee does seem to suggest that they have decided that the Amfleet replacements will be multiple unit trainsets with diesel, electric, or dual-mode propulsion.

I might be missing something but where are you getting "multiple unit" from the slide?

 

[adamj023]

Seems likely replacements for Amfleet I will be announced sometime this year. I would assume they will start arriving around 2024 or so if I had to guess. Amfleet II need replacements as well and if the Amfleet I replacement order is successful they could possibly order more of the same ones depending on various factors.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Seems likely replacements for Amfleet I will be announced sometime this year. I would assume they will start arriving around 2024 or so if I had to guess. Amfleet II need replacements as well and if the Amfleet I replacement order is successful they could possibly order more of the same ones depending on various factors.

3 years? The last order for the VIIs only took 10 years to get the cars into service, and they're still not being fully used, with some serving as a axle Count Cars and others being "Yard Queens!"

I'd say give it at least 5 years!

 

[jis]

3 years? The last order for the VIIs only took 10 years to get the cars into service, and they're still not being fully used, with some serving as a axle Count Cars and others being "Yard Queens!"

I'd say give it at least 5 years!

The slideset says delivery from 2025 to 2035, presumably for the entire 80+ trainsets. Assuming average 8 cars per trainset that would be 640+ cars plus possibly 160+ power heads, if the train sets consist of trailers with power heads top and tail. If they have power at one end and cab at the other, halve the power heads number and add in the same number of cab cars.

At least for the dual modes and diesels I would expect top and tail power, since doing a single unit over 4,500hp becomes more difficult and expensive. That would make it possible to repurpose the existing ACS64s as power heads in the new setup.

I would be really surprised, not unpleasantly, if they actually go for distributed power. So waiting with bated breath to see what comes out.

 

[adamj023]

I guess we will find out. As passengers, we can only choose from what is available. Sometimes you get lucky and get the Viewliner II. As of today, a lot of stock is still old and needs replacements.

Amfleet I are used on Northeast Corridor so it should get upgraded quicker.

 

[frequentflyer]

So it would seem this is not a Siemens Viagaro coaches with Siemen locomotive units. This will be a true EMU/DMU set.

 

[jis]

So it would seem this is not a Siemens Viagaro coaches with Siemen locomotive units. This will be a true EMU/DMU set.

There is nothing in the slideset that specifically indicates that though.

 

[frequentflyer]

Ahh, the "Trainset Concept with configuration flexibility ". I guess that is just as I described. A bunch of Siemen coaches with Siemens locomotives of various abilities.