RFP released for 35 Next Gen Locomotives

[PerRock]

It looks very similar to the existing Eurorunner design (which I thought it would) just a single-cab version rather then dual cab. Any idea why they decided to go with a single-cab design?

I found this, albiet fisheye, but larger image:

peter

 

[cirdan]

Loved this bit of revisionist history from the Siemens press release:

This will be the first privately-owned, operated and maintained passenger rail system in the United States.

Siemens PR dept are pretty good at hyperbole and don't have the budget for a history book.

Siemens has also claimed they invented the streetcar.

 

[cirdan]

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Amtrak

Amtrak said Wednesday, July 2, 2014 it has officially issued

its Request for Proposals for up to 28 next-generation

high speed trainsets to replace its current Acela Express

equipment on the Northeast Corridor.
...

is it just me, or does that picture have echoes of this ?

 

[PerRock]

Trick of the angle; it's got a more elongted nose. Although these Acela II images are all just artist drawings and nothing close to realistic. They're based off from the Bombardier Zefiro. But if I had to bet on it, the Acela lIs will be made be Siemens, or a Japanese company.

peter

 

[Fan Railer]

It looks very similar to the existing Eurorunner design (which I thought it would) just a single-cab version rather then dual cab. Any idea why they decided to go with a single-cab design?

I found this, albiet fisheye, but larger image:

peter

I imagine that the RFP did not specify the need for a dual cab design... and IIRC, a single cab design is cheaper to outfit. Afterall, the railroads that are to use the Charger will either book-end their trains (locomotive on both ends) or operate with cab control cars, so there's no need for a locomotive with two fully functional cabs (one on each end). A hostler station at the blind end will do (as they have on the Genesis now).

 

[jis]

So the car that is shown in the photo.... is that what the AAF cars will look like. Looks neat, and very European!

 

[battalion51]

I imagine that the RFP did not specify the need for a dual cab design... and IIRC, a single cab design is cheaper to outfit. Afterall, the railroads that are to use the Charger will either book-end their trains (locomotive on both ends) or operate with cab control cars, so there's no need for a locomotive with two fully functional cabs (one on each end). A hostler station at the blind end will do (as they have on the Genesis now).

Fan Railer, they do not have a hostler station on the P-40s anymore, they were removed in the late 90s. The P-42s never had them installed. Whether they still exist on the P-32 AC-DMs I don't know.

As long as there is a back door, side doors, and/or back porch (think F59PHI), there is a place for a Conductor to guide an Engineer by radio or hand signal.

 

[Amfleeter]

It is indeed a nice looking coach - hopefully it lives up to it's Railjet origins and has the very nice interior to match. I have to notice the very large windows - those will be nice to have if I ever get the chance to ride aboard one.

The (apparent) lack of traps seems odd to me for a North American coach - has Siemens considered the possibility of the Viaggo Comfort being purchased by other US passenger outfits, such as Amtrak? If it's purchased by anyone else, there's a good chance it may need to use low platforms in places at some point, since low platforms are the norm in the US outside of the Northeast and, soon, the AAF corridor. The door does seem oddly long - perhaps part of it is the traps.

 

[CHamilton]

So the car that is shown in the photo.... is that what the AAF cars will look like. Looks neat, and very European!

According to the Siemens rep who spoke at the RailPAC meeting on Saturday, the passenger cars will be based on the RailJet equipment used in Austria, and the locos will have an elongated nose similar to PerRock's picture. At least in theory. He said that the renderings he showed us (and which were marked Confidential, so they can't be shared) were the one design that he could guarantee that they wouldn't look like by the time design is finalized.

 

[PaulM]

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?17,3539808

The DMU "Fliegender Hamburger" (flying hamburger) looses a bit in translation.

 

[MikefromCrete]

It is indeed a nice looking coach - hopefully it lives up to it's Railjet origins and has the very nice interior to match. I have to notice the very large windows - those will be nice to have if I ever get the chance to ride aboard one.

The (apparent) lack of traps seems odd to me for a North American coach - has Siemens considered the possibility of the Viaggo Comfort being purchased by other US passenger outfits, such as Amtrak? If it's purchased by anyone else, there's a good chance it may need to use low platforms in places at some point, since low platforms are the norm in the US outside of the Northeast and, soon, the AAF corridor. The door does seem oddly long - perhaps part of it is the traps.

The coach is probably some generic model and has nothing to do with any possible future orders from either Amtrak or AAF.

 

[PerRock]

The coach is the

It is indeed a nice looking coach - hopefully it lives up to it's Railjet origins and has the very nice interior to match. I have to notice the very large windows - those will be nice to have if I ever get the chance to ride aboard one.

The (apparent) lack of traps seems odd to me for a North American coach - has Siemens considered the possibility of the Viaggo Comfort being purchased by other US passenger outfits, such as Amtrak? If it's purchased by anyone else, there's a good chance it may need to use low platforms in places at some point, since low platforms are the norm in the US outside of the Northeast and, soon, the AAF corridor. The door does seem oddly long - perhaps part of it is the traps.

The coach is probably some generic model and has nothing to do with any possible future orders from either Amtrak or AAF.

The coach is the planned on for All Aboard Florida, if you read the press releases about that purchase it states they'll be using US versions of the Viaggio coaches (the same one used on the RailJet). And the pictured model quite clearly states that it's the US Viaggio coach.

peter

 

[oldtimer]

The model pictured appears to have an extruded metal roll up door and a crew access door next to it. Is this a cabbage car?

 

[PerRock]

The model pictured appears to have an extruded metal roll up door and a crew access door next to it. Is this a cabbage car?

No, it's a fully fledged engine. That "roll-up door" would be ventilation for the engine, and not a door at all.

peter

 

[Paulus]

Per recent LOSSAN meeting, Midwest is seriously considering additional locomotive purchases and Siemens is shopping it to various other agencies. Locomotives will be built at a rate of four per month and Siemens apparently is hoping to keep the production line open for a decade

 

[neroden]

The initial planned locomotive purchase for the Midwest seemed like it was barely enough to handle the planned services (basically no spares), so I should hope they're seriously considering additional locomotive purchases. Good to hear that they are.

 

[battalion51]

If they're planning to have just enough to cover services with no spares that actually could be a benefit to Amtrak maintaining contracts to operate. The Chargers coming in will immediately reduce strain on the current road fleet which is stretched extremely thin. However, before long you're looking at having a large surplus of locomotives. Granted the DASH8s may be nearing retirement, but they're not easy to retire without at least some replacements since they act as switchers in places like New Orleans, Miami, Sanford, and Lorton. The P-40s may be candidates, but a whole lot of money was spent to bring them back to life after being idle the better part of a decade. If the Charger fleet can only cover its daily services, with no spares you now have a function for at least some of the surplus power to protect those trains, something an outside operator like Corridor Capital couldn't provide.

 

[neroden]

There will be no surplus of locomotives. The Dash-8s should have been retired already. The revived P-40s will probably last about as long as the P-42s... but the P-42s are already 18 years old, and will be 22 years old in 2018 when the Chargers are all delivered.

Amtrak already wants to replace the P42s -- that's why there's a gigantic option on the Charger order for something like 225 locomotives.

 

[jis]

I agree. Things will move from a borderline crisis situation, which is where we are at present, with locomotives failing en-route or causing delayed departure, several times a week, to a more or less comfortable situation with vast reduction in locomotive failure related reliability issues.

 

[Fan Railer]

There will be no surplus of locomotives. The Dash-8s should have been retired already. The revived P-40s will probably last about as long as the P-42s... but the P-42s are already 18 years old, and will be 22 years old in 2018 when the Chargers are all delivered.

Amtrak already wants to replace the P42s -- that's why there's a gigantic option on the Charger order for something like 225 locomotives.

Word elsewhere is that there's good reason for the Dash-8s to outlast the Gennies and the F59PHIs.

On another note, here's the Siemens page for their line of passenger cars:

http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobility/global/en/interurban-mobility/rail-solutions/passenger-coaches/Pages/passenger-coaches.aspx

 

[jis]

Can't wait to see those American version of Viaggio Classics to start rolling in Florida!

 

[afigg]

There will be no surplus of locomotives. The Dash-8s should have been retired already. The revived P-40s will probably last about as long as the P-42s... but the P-42s are already 18 years old, and will be 22 years old in 2018 when the Chargers are all delivered.

Amtrak already wants to replace the P42s -- that's why there's a gigantic option on the Charger order for something like 225 locomotives.

The P-42s entered service from 1996 to 2001 so the youngest units are ~13 years old. But in 5 years, they will be 18 years old and with a lot of additional mileage on them.

The options in the RFP for the Next Gen diesel order were for up to 225 locomotives total, up to 75 corridor configuration, up to 150 in LD configuration. I think we can expect that CA and the Midwest states will exercise some of the options for the corridor configuration unitd. Which in turn will free up some P-42s and perhaps all of Amtrak's California F-59PHIs. But the P-42s are not getting any younger and are running up the miles. The 2012 Fleet Strategy plan listed the average mileage for all the P-42s at 2.25 million miles, so add 2-3 years of use to that average for late 2014.

With Siemens producing Chargers for the states and AAF, Amtrak could purchase Charger replacements for the P-42 in smaller order quantities of 20 to 40 units at a time to manage the capital outlay and cash flow. At the base order price of a little over $7 million each for the Charger, an order for 40 locomotives is going to cost about the same as the CAF Viewliner order, so it could be a challenge without increased capital grant funding from Congress. If it has not done so already, Siemens should hire a well connected DC lobbyist firm.

 

[Paulus]

California will purchase additional locomotives (page 106)

On December 10, 2014, the CTC approved allocation of $108 million in Prop 1B funding for additional passenger rail cars and locomotives. This will result in additional new equipment being assigned to the San Joaquin Corridor. The exact breakdown between locomotives and railcars is still under negotiations. The option locomotives will cost about $6.5 million and the option railcars will be approximately $3.2 million each. About 10% of this allocation will be utilized for an “On-board Information System (OBIS)”. The OBIS is an integrated video and audio communications system for on-train travel and service messages as well as potential advertising messages.

 

[afigg]

On December 10, 2014, the CTC approved allocation of $108 million in Prop 1B funding for additional passenger rail cars and locomotives. This will result in additional new equipment being assigned to the San Joaquin Corridor. The exact breakdown between locomotives and railcars is still under negotiations. The option locomotives will cost about $6.5 million and the option railcars will be approximately $3.2 million each. About 10% of this allocation will be utilized for an “On-board Information System (OBIS)”. The OBIS is an integrated video and audio communications system for on-train travel and service messages as well as potential advertising messages.

Good find. Based on prior reports, I suspect most of the funds will go to buying Siemens Charger locomotives to replace Amtrak owned locomotives used on the CA corridor services. The approval news also pegs the option cost for buying the Chargers at $6.5 million a unit, so that the cost basis to Amtrak if they can scrounge up funding to place orders to begin replacing the P-40 and P-42 locomotives.

 

[Bjartmarr]

California will purchase additional locomotives (page 106)

The OBIS is an integrated video and audio communications system for on-train travel and service messages as well as potential advertising messages.

Oh no!

We have those things on our buses here in Los Angeles. I can't read a book on the bus any more, as it's constantly blaring out advertising. If they put them on the train, I'm going to drive instead.