RFP released for 35 Next Gen Locomotives

[neroden]

Audio advertising needs to be banned outright. It's a public service to disable speakers which are blaring it.

 

[battalion51]

Video advertising on mass transit seems to becoming commonplace in my travels. However I agree that any audio should be restricted to information regarding the operation of the train (next stop, destination when stopped at a station, closing doors, etc.).

 

[George K]

Video advertising on mass transit seems to becoming commonplace in my travels. However I agree that any audio should be restricted to information regarding the operation of the train (next stop, destination when stopped at a station, closing doors, etc.).

With the option of turning it off. At 3 AM, I certainly don't want some robot telling me what our next stop is.

 

[afigg]

If this news report is correct, MARC will be piggy backing on the Illinois order and purchasing Siemens Charger locomotives to replace their electrics. I think MdTA and MARC will regret their decision in 5 or 10 years if fuel costs shoot way up, but the state agency doesn't want electric locomotives anymore.

Baltimore Sun: MTA seeks $58 million for new MARC engines. Excerpt:

The MTA is moving to make the purchase now because Amtrak plans to stop maintaining MARC's electric fleet. The national railroad, which has maintained MARC's electric locomotives since 1983, notified the agency last fall that it would discontinue that work next summer.

Amtrak told the Maryland agency it cannot keep spare parts for MARC's aging electric fleet in stock anymore because it no longer uses them itself. Kimberly Woods, an Amtrak spokeswoman, said Amtrak has had some of the same locomotives, but the national passenger railroad is moving to replace them.

The MTA plans to ask the state Board of Public Works for permission to piggyback on an Illinois contract with Siemens Industry Inc. to buy the diesel engines.

At the unit price for the Chargers, wouldn't cost Maryland that much more upfront for the ACS-64s.

 

[jis]

MARC has the issue of maintaining a diesel fleet anyway for its Camden and Brubswick Lines. So while not something that I think is the best, it is understandable why they want to just do everything using diesels. The good thing is that the lighter Chargers will ause less track damage than the MPI behemoths that they have now. So the ride on the Acelas and Regionals would not be as bumpy as it is now on MARC territory perhaps.

 

[Hal]

MARC has the issue of maintaining a diesel fleet anyway for its Camden and Brubswick Lines. So while not something that I think is the best, it is understandable why they want to just do everything using diesels. The good thing is that the lighter Chargers will ause less track damage than the MPI behemoths that they have now. So the ride on the Acelas and Regionals would not be as bumpy as it is now on MARC territory perhaps.

That is why they want diesels. To maintain one fleet.

 

[west point]

Questions.

1. Is the present diesel fleet AC or DC ?.

2. What will the new fleet be ?

3. New diesels tier 4 EPA what is the present fleet ?

4. Present diesel cannot maintain 125 MPH

5. Any train over 4 cars will probably require 2 locos tomaintain Amtrak's 125 MPH requirement.

6. Awful lot of other differences.

 

[jis]

Present diesels cannot even get upto 125, let alone maintaining.

 

[PerRock]

Bombardier TRAXX can reach 124mph. the Vossloh Euro hits 124mph as well, Wikipedia says the BR Class 67 is designed to reach 124 as well.

So yes present diesels can almost reach 125mph.

peter

 

[jis]

Not the ones that are presently owned by MARC. Remember? We are talking about MARC's Diesel engine plans. Not just any diesels. The point being that MARC will still end up with two different types of diesels. One the current set that are not capable of 125 and the other the new set that presumably will be able to. That is what I was talking about.

Of course we all know that there are several diesel models that can operate at 200kph.

 

[Ryan]

MARC has the issue of maintaining a diesel fleet anyway for its Camden and Brubswick Lines. So while not something that I think is the best, it is understandable why they want to just do everything using diesels. The good thing is that the lighter Chargers will ause less track damage than the MPI behemoths that they have now. So the ride on the Acelas and Regionals would not be as bumpy as it is now on MARC territory perhaps.

That is why they want diesels. To maintain one fleet.

Also, Amtrak charges a massive amount of money for power. MARC is better off running diesels,unless fuel get silly expensive, which is sad.

 

[jis]

Since MARC already uses a mix of diesel and electric on the NEC, is it the case that their schedules really don;t need 125mph at all, and is planned based on MAS of 110? Just curious.

 

[Hal]

Since MARC already uses a mix of diesel and electric on the NEC, is it the case that their schedules really don;t need 125mph at all, and is planned based on MAS of 110? Just curious.

MARC does not run 125. Also they would have to replace two thirds of the coaches.

 

[west point]

Has there been a disclosure of actual electric costs to MARC? Until there is I cannot in good conscience make any statement of MARC's electric costs.

 

[jis]

The question of electric costs may be moot, just like it is for MBTA too. Having just a diesel fleet just makes too much sense given their overall service structure.

 

[Ryan]

Since MARC already uses a mix of diesel and electric on the NEC, is it the case that their schedules really don;t need 125mph at all, and is planned based on MAS of 110? Just curious.

MARC does not run 125. Also they would have to replace two thirds of the coaches.

MARC very much runs 125 on the expresses, as long as you have all K cars and an electric motor.



MARC 409 routinely carries this equipment lineup and makes use of the speed on the express run from OTN to NCR. Sometimes we have to crawl in to NCR because we're on the heels of 67, but on occasion we fly right in.

 

[Ryan]

Has there been a disclosure of actual electric costs to MARC? Until there is I cannot in good conscience make any statement of MARC's electric costs.

I was told the overall operational cost by someone there once upon a time (~2 years ago), but forget them. The motors cost almost exactly twice as much to operate as the diesels between power costs and maintenance costs paid to Amtrak.

 

[neroden]

Has there been a disclosure of actual electric costs to MARC? Until there is I cannot in good conscience make any statement of MARC's electric costs.

I was told the overall operational cost by someone there once upon a time (~2 years ago), but forget them. The motors cost almost exactly twice as much to operate as the diesels between power costs and maintenance costs paid to Amtrak.

Yeah, but that's gotta be mostly the maintenance costs on the shop queen HHP-8s and aged ACS-64s. We don't have a breakdown of the *fuel* costs.

 

[jis]

Yeah, but that's gotta be mostly the maintenance costs on the shop queen HHP-8s and aged ACS-64s. We don't have a breakdown of the *fuel* costs.

AEM-7s. There are no aged ACS-64s in existence yet.

Given that MARC has only one line that is electric I was actually amazed when they originally went along with getting electric power for it. Irrespective of fuel cost it just does not make much sense (unless electric power cost was amazingly cheaper than diesel - which all indications are that they are not).. Perhaps back then they thought it would always be Amtrak operating their trains, and then it made sense to just plug into Amtrak's pool of electric locomotives. But now that they may be contemplating an independent operator for all their trains that imperative disappears and perhaps that is what is showing. Their experience with operating electric power has also been shall we say, less than stellar so far.

 

[Ryan]

Has there been a disclosure of actual electric costs to MARC? Until there is I cannot in good conscience make any statement of MARC's electric costs.

I was told the overall operational cost by someone there once upon a time (~2 years ago), but forget them. The motors cost almost exactly twice as much to operate as the diesels between power costs and maintenance costs paid to Amtrak.

Yeah, but that's gotta be mostly the maintenance costs on the shop queen HHP-8s and aged ACS-64s. We don't have a breakdown of the *fuel* costs.

No, "fuel" costs were explicitly discussed as a major contributor.

 

[neroden]

Yeah, but that's gotta be mostly the maintenance costs on the shop queen HHP-8s and aged ACS-64s. We don't have a breakdown of the *fuel* costs.

AEM-7s. There are no aged ACS-64s in existence yet.

*Cough* yes, thank you.

 

[west point]

Again the cost of electricity needs careful analysis. If MARC got ACS-64s their stop and go operations could have a lot of regenerative braking credits. Granted we do not know if their electric costs include credits for regeneration. Dynamic braking just wastes the slowing energy. Do diesels cause more or less wear on their train's braking systems ? Inquiring minds.

On the other side of the coin if MARC would go to all electric Penn line WASH - Baltimore - Perryville - Wilmington ( future ) what would be the increase capacity needed for the electric transmission infrastructure ? Always goes back to obsolete 25 Hz system making extra costs..

 

[afigg]

Railway Age article on the MARC decision to purchase Siemens charger diesels: MARC replacing electric locomotive fleet with high-speed diesels. Adds techincal specifications background to the Baltimore Sun report. But the Railway Age report added this tidbit of info:

MARC’s Charger locomotives are expected to be delivered by late 2017. As of Aug. 12, 2015, a date had not been scheduled for the matter to go before Maryland’s Board of Public Works. It had been on the board’s Aug. 5 agenda but was withdrawn after a losing bidder filed a complaint with the federal government. Shepard said the MTA “believes the complaint has no merit but it would likely take several weeks to resolve.”

So EMD filed another protest after losing another bid to Siemens?

 

[Caesar La Rock]

EMD is seriously losing that many orders? They might as well go out of business, I mean GE has just about every freight locomotive order under it's belt and Metrolink is currently the only one that has ordered the F125s. Then you have Brookville, MPI, etc. all out there.

 

[keelhauled]

Well GE is the only one who can build heavy haul freight locomotives at this point, EMD still doesn't have a working Tier 4 design. Though they still build freight engines for export. But they're owned by Caterpillar, who I doubt highly is going to abandon a relatively recent purchase of a company in what is very much a growth industry globally.

Edit: and really, no one knows how the Chargers will do. Siemens knows what its doing, but Cummins has never mass produced diesel engines for railroad locomotives before. If the Chargers turn out to be more like the HHP-8s than F40s, then it becomes an open market again for Amtrak's next diesel order.