Route Timetable PDFs returning? (2021-2022)

[neroden]

It is really hard to do a timetable that serves all possible purposes for all possible users. As @neroden had pointed out, the most useful thing about a PDF/printable timetable is that it gives a particular view that helps in understanding what routes are possible. To achieve these absolutely precise times are not necessary but the general interlinkages is what matter with a sense of possible connections. Armed with that one can then go and verify the exact times on the specific dates of interest.

Yes! This is why the Jefferson Lines bus map is almost, but not quite, an adequate substitute. (Because it doesn't show which connections work vs. which are overnight, nor does it show where you can go out and back on a day trip, etc.)

To aid this, at most non-daily services need to be identified, but one can do without occasional variations in times. Those will get sorted out when verifying a potential itinerary. My interest is in understanding how to present the data for this purpose and so absolute precision in presented times on a daily basis is not part of that agenda.

Yep. Honestly, I remember legends like "TIMES MAY VARY DUE TO TRACKWORK -- ALWAYS CHECK WHEN BUYING TICKETS" on commuter rail timetables since the 1980s. Which is fine. The point is to get a sense of what routings are possible, and how & where you have to change trains/buses to do it.

There are rumors that the mythical bus between Ithaca and Syracuse, for which timetables are not published, starts south of Ithaca. I have no idea how I'd find out where it actually starts, because there's no timetable. Effectively, it doesn't exist south of Ithaca even once you've discovered that it runs from Ithaca to Syracuse.

This is anti-marketing: it's driving customers away. The core element of marketing is making people aware that your product is an option, and that's what timetables do.

Companies pay hundreds of millions for marketing, but brainless idiots who are running bus companies into the ground won't spend a couple of hundred thousand per year to publish the cheapest, most effective piece of marketing possible. I hate to see Amtrak go the same way, and if it does, I will campaign to have Amtrak dismembered and transferred to state governments which may have some degree of basic competence.

Because of the dynamic nature of actual schedules these days, a printed time table will never be the last authoritative source of information for finalizing plans. Even the printed employee timetables are routinely over-ridden by date and time window specific orders.

 

[neroden]

So I had another thought here, because I just looked at another one of the fly-by-night startup bus companies which is not routinely publishing proper timetables -- OurBus. And despite a crappy website which fails to explain where their buses go and doesn't even have a map, they are publishing a timetable for their one "commuter" route.

I wonder if the intercity bus (and possibly train) companies which, mistakenly, think they're competing with airlines are trying to mimic the marketing laziness of the airlines, which the airlines can get away with largely due to the fact that pretty much no airplane route does anything other than point-to-point. (Even despite this, I always have to check three or four "origin" airports in the vicinity of the actual origin, and three or four "destination" airports in the vicinity of the actual destination -- Google Flights has some "nearby airports" search features for this which help, and it would behoove Amtrak to get all the Amtrak stations into that system.)

Companies which have realized that they're actually competing with *driving*, by contrast, seem to publish their timetables. Every single "commuter railroad" does, and every urban or "commuter" bus route does (even when they are routinely late).

I think Amtrak is competing primarily with driving. Not with airplanes. When you're advertising a route as an alternative to the car, it's important to present all the possible stations you could get on and off at and all the possible times and all the possible connections -- if a customer doesn't see *all* the options, they are likely to decide that the car is easier than the options they *do* see, even if there is an option which would have enticed them out of their car.

 

[neroden]

Meanwhile here is an enhanced "Atlantic Coast Service at a glance" that I built using the previous example that I posted earlier. It really needs to be split into two pages for the printed form. However on a Screen it is actually quite usable. There is an HTML version of it too which looks exactly the same, but distributing it is a pain because of multiple files involved.

Thanks for the timetable. I sent it to Jim Matthews in hopes it can be put up on the RPA website next to the other "salvaged" timetables.

 

[Way2Kewl]

And understaffed, with 25 current openings. With that many openings, it makes me think that they are not offering competitive salaries for the desired skillsets. <snip>

25 good developers can modernize a lot of code. Most Systems of Record (data) to Systems of Engagement (Web Apps) projects I see only have 2-4 assigned to a new Web Application component. i.e. Reservations App, Track a train app, schedules, Chat w/AI support, etc. Most of the issue is with their legacy Arrow system. Very Legacy and does not integrate well. It’s possible (with a bit of luck) that these 25 positions are targeted to do a complete modernizing overall giving them the foundation to build upon and keep modern.

An old Solution VP used to ask their Development Solution Managers if you only had xx$’s what do you budget this quarter. It’s a limited budget and we can’t do them all… Maybe Amtrak’s going to have a little more $ to play with. I hope their Development Solution Managers choose wisely.

With these “new” trainsets. I would have liked to seen Amtrak consider building into their consists a way for passengers to log into a local (on train) server that provided services (BYOD phone, ipad, laptop). The server can pick up data metric changes in fairly small packets along the way when within cell tower range for things like route updates. From there they would have a platform to build upon possibly starting with things like a Front and Back Cam view (I’d pay a few $ for this), possibly a build in radio scanner tuned for the route, real time dinner reservations for both staff and self-serve passengers from the app. Maybe even requesting the SCA, Diner Menus, real time track-a-train as well as the dynamic updating schedules (updated when within cell towers in range). This would also go further to satisfying the removal of the PDF’s (I do like these) Using their GPS they could provide an automated tour guide that kicks in along the route depending on the level of interest you dial in… (I’d even pay for this). At night they could offer a wide selection of train movies… Efforts like this certainly cost up front budgets but over time show very nice ROI.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I managed to get a timetable of sorts out of the Amtrak website while pricing hypothetical trips the other day - it gave me some intermediate stop times rather than just beginning and end, but I forget how I did that!

 

[willem]

It does provide a lot of information about the train you choose to look at the Details for though. And you do get many more possible connections than just the three you mentioned, since there are many Regionals and Acelas that potentially connect to the Cap and the LSL I suppose.

As you can see, the Details includes all station stops on the way, the accommodation available on the train and basically everything one expects in the timetable footnotes or symbols. I am not sure that bickering over whether it is a timetable or schedule is a good use of time, since it is what it is no matter what you choose to call it. What it is not is a printable timetable that we were familiar with in the pre-Web days. In some sense it is exactly what one would expect when searching for stuff on the web, and someone who has been brought up in the web culture, having never experienced what came before, would be perfectly at home with this.

The Details block actually has live links under many of the items that takes you to further information popups which is kind of neat. Unfortunately they do not have links from the accommodation items to info popup. Those pointing to what each accommodation looks like would be an improvement I think. Would be even neater if it showed the current fare for that combo. But that will require some fancy cross linking between two complex modules. But if done right it should not be hard to achieve.

Now do I miss the PDF stuff. Of course Yes. But for someone casually trying to figure out where to travel and how to get there, this seems to be more or less adequate. For most of my everyday needs I could live with this. OTOH, this is inadequate to satisfy my railfan urges.

All IMHO of course.

View attachment 23004

I cannot find the screen you posted. Has it changed in the days since you posted it or am I not looking in the right place? When I click Details on the screen with my train options, I do not get intermediate stops.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I cannot find the screen you posted. Has it changed in the days since you posted it or am I not looking in the right place? When I click Details on the screen with my train options, I do not get intermediate stops.
View attachment 23163

That's the booking screen. You need to select Schedules on the top menu then put in your origin and destination.

 

[willem]

You need to select Schedules on the top menu then put in your origin and destination.

Thanks, Betty, got it. Now if I can just remember how to get it again when I want it...

 

[niemi24s]

For those with a yen for the old-style timetables in the Amtrak System Timetable, the daily pre-Covid ones are still available here... Amtrak Tickets, Schedules and Train Routes ...if you first click Destinations, then See All Routes, etc, etc.

The only ones I know of that are grossly outdated are the times for the Crescent and sleeper availability for NER 66 & 67.

 

[Cal]

I just use this, it's amazing!

Thank you @acelafan

 

[jis]

Ok, here is the complete Atlantic Coast Service timetable in three pages including all the Thruway connections that I could find. It includes the service along NS to Charlotte and Roanoke, Cardinal upto CVS and the complete North Carolina and Florida services including all throughways. Have fun!!

Actually I had not realized how richly interconnected the service is until I worked on this. The tendency to do an individual train based timetables rather than system timetables can give you the impression that the service is much sparser than it actually is.

 

[acelafan]

Ok, here is the complete Atlantic Coast Service timetable in three pages including all the Thruway connections that I could find. It includes the service along NS to Charlotte and Roanoke, Cardinal upto CVS and the complete North Carolina and Florida services including all throughways. Have fun!!

Actually I had not realized how richly interconnected the service is until I worked on this. The tendency to do an individual train based timetables rather than system timetables can give you the impression that the service is much sparser than it actually is.

Wow! Well this is too nice to not post, so I added it to my archive. I have noted timetables on my site not produced by Amtrak with a (*). But 6 hours, that is a considerable amount of time. I think my eyes would glaze over after about an hour.

This next comment sounds petty, especially as a supporter of Amtrak, but here goes: With the subsidies Amtrak gets each year it seems they could back-fill the 1 position that was responsible for keeping the PDF TT's up to date. The apparent existence of tools and techniques discussed above should make such work easy or even "automated". Maybe September will bring us a surprise visit from the Amtrak Timetable Fairy.

 

[jis]

Wow! Well this is too nice to not post, so I added it to my archive. I have noted timetables on my site not produced by Amtrak with a (*). But 6 hours, that is a considerable amount of time. I think my eyes would glaze over after about an hour.

This next comment sounds petty, especially as a supporter of Amtrak, but here goes: With the subsidies Amtrak gets each year it seems they could back-fill the 1 position that was responsible for keeping the PDF TT's up to date. The apparent existence of tools and techniques discussed above should make such work easy or even "automated". Maybe September will bring us a surprise visit from the Amtrak Timetable Fairy.

I will soon produce a new version since I have discovered a few significant changes in the Thruway service around Richmond/Charlottesville and had missed one. I’ll post when I have the fixed one. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Cardinal-New York-Chicago-October052020 (amtrak.com) they also have more traditional looking timetables like this under the info for particular routes, IIRC you get there through Destinations. Unfortunately I can't get it to copy and paste properly, probably needs a format change.

 

[Cal]

Cardinal-New York-Chicago-October052020 (amtrak.com) they also have more traditional looking timetables like this under the info for particular routes, IIRC you get there through Destinations.

These don't exist for most LD routes.

 

[coalman]

I saw that schedules aren't available but I have an old CS which looks like accurate times on it. I was going on a trip last February but cancelled at the last minute due to covid. I'm leaving PDX tomorrow to a family reunion in San Juan Capistrano. It will be my first roomette. Thanks for all everyone's previous help on choosing an oceanside roomette.
I don't want to be OCD about this, but I've noticed there can be contingencies to on-time arrival/departures. I thought it might be good to transfer schedule info from Google Amtrak map to a sheet as we go. I could more easily answer anyone's questions about our schedule. I could also track arrival/departures as a history of my trip in one place. I don't have a lot of space in margin, so will have to rethink this. It would be nice to transfer times to Google sheet to keep better notes, but I'm not about to retype this. The sheet is two-sided with packing tape covering half of it to keep it from disintegrating while on the trip. I would think that something like this might have broad appeal to travellers. Maybe someone could make an app scraping Google info onto specific route information. So coders out there if you have nothing to do, go at it and sell to Amtrak or your own app.

 

[Qapla]

Do you mean something like this?

 

[coalman]

Do you mean something like this?

View attachment 23190

how did you make it?

 

[Cal]

how did you make it?

NA Intercity Rail Tools Go here

 

[danasgoodstuff]

These don't exist for most LD routes.

Rail Passengers Association | Washington, DC - Amtrak Timetables 3rd path to access.

 

[Cal]

Rail Passengers Association | Washington, DC - Amtrak Timetables 3rd path to access.

Many are outdated.

 

[Qapla]

Amtrak 5 (6/26) (transitdocs.com)


You start here and click on the train you want on the map and then the train name in the upper left

 

[WWW]

Another application:

Amtrak Status Maps - West (dixielandsoftware.net)

Click on the RED outlined area to trains in those other areas

Only trains operating this day are shown

Click on a specific train for more information i.e.:
Formatted and unformatted data with the stations coded in their 3 letter identifier
Click on that little red circle with arrow at the top and get the result of that train as Qapla had posted for train 5 (today)

The color graphic scheduled arrival and departure time and current status chart is at the top - - -
Green - On Time - Yellow - late - Red - later than late - Black - major delay 4 or more hours - may be removed after 8 hours who is keeping track ?
Scroll down to the bottom to see a map and the progress that train is making - - -
Note the small colored balls - gray parked stationary - orange medium speed - red high track speed

Refreshing the screen {bummer} reverts you back to the top of the chart and you have to scroll down again.

Click scroll futz around with this - have some fun !

 

[Chazcop]

I went looking for when the Official Railway Guide stopped printing airline scheds…I got thrown off track by this bloh conversation about collecting airline scheduled. Lots of links for me to checkout.
https://crankyflier.com/2009/07/17/airline-timetables-disappear-airline-dorks-die-a-little-inside/

 

[MARC Rider]

Cardinal-New York-Chicago-October052020 (amtrak.com) they also have more traditional looking timetables like this under the info for particular routes, IIRC you get there through Destinations. Unfortunately I can't get it to copy and paste properly, probably needs a format change.

That's an out-of-date October 2020 3-day a week timetable. That's the problem. They haven't been updating the timetables. The ones you can find on the web are getting obsolete.