Serious Amtrak mishandling of passengers

[west point]

Let us lump into one thread all of major mishandling of Amtrak passengers

Will start it by announcing leaving over 100 passengers at WASH Union station booked on Dec 26th Night owl to NYP & BOS. No one boarded the passengers at a closed gate. Who was not responsible. On duty station manager, Agent in charge, Gate agent, A red cap, & especially conductor for leaving when no one boarded?

This poster could not even think of such a screw up of all have heard of over the years and just thinking of WAGs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a...S&cvid=0bb752822db149e08684153db974dc72&ei=31

https://wjla.com/news/local/amtrak-...ager-preparationdry8083-pete-buttigieg-dec-26

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The effect passenger were given hotel rooms and were booked on the next days Acela.

I do wonder what was the final bill for this one.

“I don’t care, and it’s not my job.” Hopeful a few employees are on unpaid vacation now.

 

[JoeRids]

I never understood the gate concept anyway. Post a track 20-25 minutes in advance, passengers board train, done. Simple. Why herd people like cattle? Ostensibly the idea is to check tickets prior to boarding to make sure people are on the correct train, but this isn’t even done in most cases anyway.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I never understood the gate concept anyway. Post a track 20-25 minutes in advance, passengers board train, done. Simple. Why herd people like cattle? Ostensibly the idea is to check tickets prior to boarding to make sure people are on the correct train, but this isn’t even done in most cases anyway.

In WAS and NYP, there are several trains that don't leave the platform after arriving to go to the yard for servicing (these are the ones with motors on both ends). In this situation, they do not want passengers on the platform or in the trains until servicing is completed (and the Blue Light is off <- it's a safety light). I had a red cap take me out for one of these trains recently in WAS and had to wait by the doors until the blue light was turned off so we could proceed to the train. Though I did see another red cap take someone in a wheelchair to the train before the blue light was off.

The train in question, 66, arrived from VA. Again, they need to service the train at the platform (clean, probably stock the cafe, etc and change from the diesel engine to the electric motor)

And they certainly don't want boarding passengers to go out until all detraining passengers have gone into the station.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I never understood the gate concept anyway. Post a track 20-25 minutes in advance, passengers board train, done. Simple. Why herd people like cattle? Ostensibly the idea is to check tickets prior to boarding to make sure people are on the correct train, but this isn’t even done in most cases anyway.

Also, they can't give passengers 20-25 mins notice because they don't necessarily know which track the train will be on that early.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

We don’t trust people to do the right thing here in the US.

Safely policy for dumb people.

In Albany/Rensselaer on the LSL if you board at an early station you can walk up and watch the switching of engines/cars. Those get on in Rensselaer wait in the head house while the switching is occurring. When done then can accessing the platform to board.

 

[Trollopian]

Washington Post story here (shared using my subscription, so you won't encounter a paywall, though you may have to enter an email address. Real or fake.)

As one commenter noted, the passengers didn't miss their train, the train missed its passengers.

Infuriating.



https://wapo.st/3VYEFd0

 

[Trogdor]

Also, they can't give passengers 20-25 mins notice because they don't necessarily know which track the train will be on that early.

In WAS and NYP, there are several trains that don't leave the platform after arriving to go to the yard for servicing (these are the ones with motors on both ends). In this situation, they do not want passengers on the platform or in the trains until servicing is completed (and the Blue Light is off <- it's a safety light). I had a red cap take me out for one of these trains recently in WAS and had to wait by the doors until the blue light was turned off so we could proceed to the train. Though I did see another red cap take someone in a wheelchair to the train before the blue light was off.

The train in question, 66, arrived from VA. Again, they need to service the train at the platform (clean, probably stock the cafe, etc and change from the diesel engine to the electric motor)

And they certainly don't want boarding passengers to go out until all detraining passengers have gone into the station.

Train 66 on December 26th was in WAS for 33 minutes. That’s more than enough time to post a track and let people on.

Boarding and alighting passengers mix on station platforms all over the country. It shouldn’t be a big deal.

Very little servicing typically needs to be done on regionals at WAS. The engine swap isn’t a reason to keep passengers off the platform (those who were already on board and stepped off for fresh air are already able to wander the platform).

There’s no real requirement to keep passengers away while servicing the train at an en-route station. It literally happens dozens of times per day around the country. If anything, you just put a temporary safety gate around the specific area being worked on (i.e., the engine if an engine change is involved). The blue light (if it’s the one I’m thinking of; if not, then never mind) is there to tell crews not to move the train because mechanical staff is working on it. It doesn’t mean nobody is allowed to walk around on the platform next to it (after all, through passengers will be doing literally just that if they are getting fresh air during the extended stop).

 

[blueman271]

In WAS and NYP, there are several trains that don't leave the platform after arriving to go to the yard for servicing (these are the ones with motors on both ends). In this situation, they do not want passengers on the platform or in the trains until servicing is completed (and the Blue Light is off <- it's a safety light). I had a red cap take me out for one of these trains recently in WAS and had to wait by the doors until the blue light was turned off so we could proceed to the train. Though I did see another red cap take someone in a wheelchair to the train before the blue light was off.

The train in question, 66, arrived from VA. Again, they need to service the train at the platform (clean, probably stock the cafe, etc and change from the diesel engine to the electric motor)

And they certainly don't want boarding passengers to go out until all detraining passengers have gone into the station.

Then don’t post the track assignment until the train is ready to receive passengers. It’s amazing that LIRR and NJT can load many more passengers than Amtrak by simply posting the track number 10 to 15 minutes before departure. No lining up at a gate, no artificial barriers, just post the track load the train and go. Amtrak seems to be the only railroad that can’t accomplish that in NY. Almost like they artificially make the boarding process difficult to justify jobs.

 

[Widfara]

Will start it by announcing leaving over 100 passengers at WASH Union station booked on Dec 26th Night owl to NYP & BOS. No one boarded the passengers at a closed gate. Who was not responsible. On duty station manager, Agent in charge, Gate agent, A red cap, & especially conductor for leaving when no one boarded?

This would be a great railroad to work on if it weren't for all these pesky passengers.
Did no one on board ask over the radio where the passengers were? Seems like everyone involved went into DUH mode.
Transportation Powerhouse?
Transportation Madhouse.

 

[Rasputin]

Since this was the last train of the day on the day after Christmas, I am assuming that most employees with any seniority had the night or week off and the station was perhaps in the hands of newer employees who misplaced the checklist.

 

[trainrider1]

This is hindsight, but I have the following thoughts:
1. Let's say the assigned gate agent for some reason, or no reason, neglected to show up at the gate, and that there was some kind of failure of supervision. Even then, how is it possible for the conductor, who apparently has the manifest on a portable device, not to notice that passengers, let alone a hundred passengers, are not boarding? Is there not a rule that would prevent such a lapse?
2. Train 66 was due into WAS from the South at 9:28 p.m., some 16 minutes following departure from Alexandria (ALX). If I had been waiting to board that train for New York or wherever, I might have been checking Train Status on the Amtrak app and learned that for #66 at ALX on 26 December the actual departure (usually posted right away, in my general experience) was 9:26 p.m. By 9:42 p.m., I would expect the train should be, or at least might be, in the station at WAS. (Which, after the fact, Train Status shows, it was.) If a gate agent had not shown up by, say, 9:50, I might have started to get worried.
3. If something like this had occurred on one of the tracks on the main level, this might be an easier exercise. Maybe not real easy that late at night, but try to find an open door to any of the main level tracks (tracks 7 to 21?) and make your way to the track for your train. Much trickier for tracks on the lower level (e.g., tracks 23 and 24?), which Amtrak uses for through service to and from Southern points. Is it Gate K where they stage passengers for those trains? From there, I recall that it's through a door, across a transverse corridor, and down a flight to the platforms. Does anyone on this site have a workaround for that end of the station?
4. Considering the exigency, could a Red Cap have been of service? Do they work that late at night? How about finding the station master? Is there a way for a passenger to do that? As a last resort, Amtrak Police?
5. I wonder what the PIDS was saying about #66 as this fiasco was unfolding, before the train actually departed at 10:15 p.m. At some point, would a proactive passenger have been able to take effective action?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

At some point, would a proactive passenger have been able to take effective action?

Hard to find a proactive passenger most of us, have been threatened or removed from trains by staff for been proactive.

Sheep following sheep.

The lack of a gate dragon is not an excuse for the operation crew. They was a change of crews in Washington, the new crew should have been able to see the full process. How hard is it to walk upstairs and see all of those passengers waiting in line. A hundred no shows, and it didn’t raise a flag for the conductor?

Not my job, not my responsibility. At its best.

 

[Anderson]

It sounds like there was a "fat finger" on the train status board, and that combined with everything else to create a cluster.

While I understand that the "upstairs trains" at WAS may get platformed randomly, the "downstairs" trains only have two platforms, and IIRC one of those is generally for VRE and the other is for Amtrak, so letting folks at that end go downstairs wouldn't generally cause any issues (especially since those are the ones that have to spend 30 minutes getting their locos swapped).

 

[Anderson]

Hard to find a proactive passenger most of us, have been threatened or removed from trains by staff for been proactive.

Sheep following sheep.

The lack of a gate dragon is not an excuse for the operation crew. They was a change of crews in Washington, the new crew should have been able to see the full process. How hard is it to walk upstairs and see all of those passengers waiting in line. A hundred no shows, and it didn’t raise a flag for the conductor?

Not my job, not my responsibility. At its best.

Yeah. If I'm putting anybody on leave, it's the north-of-WAS conductor. This train is "only" like 5-6 cars, and 110 pax is basically two carloads. If this was some 15-car train, I can see thinking that everybody boarded at the other end; as it stands, though, this is roughly 1/3 of the train's capacity.

[Mind you, if he called upstairs and some idiot said "No, nobody here but us chickens" that's another story...]

 

[Literalman]

I've ridden through Washington many times. Usually the passengers boarding at Washington were not allowed to board until the lights and ventilation came on, but sometimes they were allowed to get on while the engine was still being hooked up. There seemed to be no consistency in boarding. And I, a through passenger, often got off and watched the engine change, being careful to stay out of the way of workers and baggage carts. I was never told to stay off the platform.

 

[Cal]

Train 66 on December 26th was in WAS for 33 minutes. That’s more than enough time to post a track and let people on.

Boarding and alighting passengers mix on station platforms all over the country. It shouldn’t be a big deal.

Very little servicing typically needs to be done on regionals at WAS. The engine swap isn’t a reason to keep passengers off the platform (those who were already on board and stepped off for fresh air are already able to wander the platform).

There’s no real requirement to keep passengers away while servicing the train at an en-route station. It literally happens dozens of times per day around the country. If anything, you just put a temporary safety gate around the specific area being worked on (i.e., the engine if an engine change is involved). The blue light (if it’s the one I’m thinking of; if not, then never mind) is there to tell crews not to move the train because mechanical staff is working on it. It doesn’t mean nobody is allowed to walk around on the platform next to it (after all, through passengers will be doing literally just that if they are getting fresh air during the extended stop).

Completely agree. Also at LAUPT they always have track assignments at least 30 minutes in advance, if not more. Metrolink trains are assigned the same platforms from day-to-day, and I'm pretty sure Amtrak trains are too. I think it's possible to coordinate better.

This is also why I hate restricted platforms, along with the fact that it evaporates half of the ease of taking the train.

 

[The Commissioner]

My father was a manager of train operations at Penn Station in NYC during the PRR/PC era. After an investigation into an incident like this, he'd be taking people out of service left and right. I would have hated to have to report to him if I left 100 passengers at the station. For some reason, I think the Amtrak employees responsible won't feel that depth of wrath.

Can you imagine an airline doing something like this?

 

[Willbridge]

Yeah. If I'm putting anybody on leave, it's the north-of-WAS conductor. This train is "only" like 5-6 cars, and 110 pax is basically two carloads. If this was some 15-car train, I can see thinking that everybody boarded at the other end; as it stands, though, this is roughly 1/3 of the train's capacity.

[Mind you, if he called upstairs and some idiot said "No, nobody here but us chickens" that's another story...]

The conductor may have thought that the Rapture had occurred.

 

[flitcraft]

The conductor may have thought that the Rapture had occurred.

What, that many rapturees in Washington DC?? Implausible. Counsel, what's your next best argument for the defense?

 

[west point]

Now explain this. The train arrived from ROA - ALX. For how many passengers was WASH the final destination? The gate had to be opened for those WASH riders to get off the escalator if it was used. Where did the person who closed the gate go instead of placating the passengers?

 

[Anderson]

My father was a manager of train operations at Penn Station in NYC during the PRR/PC era. After an investigation into an incident like this, he'd be taking people out of service left and right. I would have hated to have to report to him if I left 100 passengers at the station. For some reason, I think the Amtrak employees responsible won't feel that depth of wrath.

Can you imagine an airline doing something like this?

I could buy something like this on American or Spirit...

 

[joelkfla]

The effect passenger were given hotel rooms and were booked on the next days Acela.

That's what Amtrak told the press.

A passenger told the Washington Post that he got a refund and rebooking, but was told to request reimbursement for hotel & food from corporate.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

That's what Amtrak told the press.

A passenger told the Washington Post that he got a refund and rebooking, but was told to request reimbursement for hotel & food from corporate.

Actually that was from a Trains story. Which probably was from a news release from someone in Chicago. Thinking that is how Chicago deals with these issues.

 

[Amtrak25]

The initial response according to Reddit posters was passengers were told to rebook, at $250 in some cases, and no refunds since train 66 was not cancelled.

The WMATA Orange line goes to New Carrollton. Take advantage of it.

Ditto for NYPS. Don't shlep to Moynihan (unless headed to Canada for non-sensical check-in procedure). Board through any number of stairways in Legacy Penn. More ticketed waiting area seating available in less crowded conditions. The retail food options are cheaper too.

No lines, no Gate Dragons, no yelling, no stupidity, no ordering to stand in a single file like to 1st graders in parochial school. I went through that crap in Moynihan 16 months ago. Took Trailways 4 months ago instead from PABT That was a very pleasurable trip all around. It was also great in 2018 when Amtrak was running out of GCT. The Penn Station Clown Show did not replicate.

Amtrak has not learned how to behave professionally in 53 years. Ergo, they never will don't matter how much money is thrown at them, nor how many palatial, vanity project train stations are built for them.