Serious Amtrak mishandling of passengers

[UserNameRequired]

Well, on a positive note at least it helped keep the on-time statistics looking good.

 

[railiner]

Yeah. If I'm putting anybody on leave, it's the north-of-WAS conductor. This train is "only" like 5-6 cars, and 110 pax is basically two carloads. If this was some 15-car train, I can see thinking that everybody boarded at the other end; as it stands, though, this is roughly 1/3 of the train's capacity.

[Mind you, if he called upstairs and some idiot said "No, nobody here but us chickens" that's another story...]

The cynic in me imagines that the train crew was aware that the passengers were not boarded, but took advantage of the situation (someone else to blame) and had a good laugh at their “good fortune”, of working an empty train….

Nah, no one could be that callous, could they?

 

[MARC Rider]

In WAS and NYP, there are several trains that don't leave the platform after arriving to go to the yard for servicing (these are the ones with motors on both ends). In this situation, they do not want passengers on the platform or in the trains until servicing is completed (and the Blue Light is off <- it's a safety light). I had a red cap take me out for one of these trains recently in WAS and had to wait by the doors until the blue light was turned off so we could proceed to the train. Though I did see another red cap take someone in a wheelchair to the train before the blue light was off.

The train in question, 66, arrived from VA. Again, they need to service the train at the platform (clean, probably stock the cafe, etc and change from the diesel engine to the electric motor)

And they certainly don't want boarding passengers to go out until all detraining passengers have gone into the station.

The don't want passengers on the platform? When I've taken 66 as a through passenger, they have no problem with us through passengers getting out, stretching our legs, having a smoke break, watching them switch engines, etc. Admittedly, the last time I did this was in 2019, so maybe the policies have changed.

 

[MARC Rider]

What, that many rapturees in Washington DC?? Implausible.

Well, after the results of the recent election, there may be more than you think

 

[MARC Rider]

You know regionals are capable of running in reverse, even if at a very low speed. I once took a regional north out of Washington, and after we left New Carrolton, they discovered the horn wasn't working. So that reversed us all the way back into Washington at something like 10 mph, and then got a new motor. My 40-minute trip turned into a 3 hour or something trip, but at least I wasn't stranded. I don't see why they didn't just have the train return back to Washington to get the passengers. The conductor has both radios and a cellphone, it's not like it's the Lewis and Clark Expedition left St. Louis a month earlier. Sure, 66 would be massively delayed, but 66 also isn't exactly a high-speed train, and the schedule has a lot of padding, and at least the passengers would have gotten to their destination. The earliest Acela leaves Washington at 5AM and doesn't get into Boston until about 11:30 AM.

 

[Septa9739]

I would have thought it would have been cheaper to throw together an extra and catch 66 at PHL or NYP rather than buy 100 hotel rooms at DC prices during Christmas week. I guess there are neither crews nor equipment as there once were.

 

[acelafan]

Train staff has smartphones with passengers on and passengers off at each station. Absolutely inexcusable.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

You know regionals are capable of running in reverse, even if at a very low speed. I once took a regional north out of Washington, and after we left New Carrolton, they discovered the horn wasn't working. So that reversed us all the way back into Washington at something like 10 mph, and then got a new motor. My 40-minute trip turned into a 3 hour or something trip, but at least I wasn't stranded. I don't see why they didn't just have the train return back to Washington to get the passengers. The conductor has both radios and a cellphone, it's not like it's the Lewis and Clark Expedition left St. Louis a month earlier. Sure, 66 would be massively delayed, but 66 also isn't exactly a high-speed train, and the schedule has a lot of padding, and at least the passengers would have gotten to their destination. The earliest Acela leaves Washington at 5AM and doesn't get into Boston until about 11:30 AM.

Sounds like a plan.

I would have thought it would have been cheaper to throw together an extra and catch 66 at PHL or NYP rather than buy 100 hotel rooms at DC prices during Christmas week. I guess there are neither crews nor equipment as there once were.

Sounds like a plan.

Apparently reports of Amtrak getting hotel for the passengers were premature. Even worse there are reports of the first Acela kicking passengers off with tickets for 66 the previous night. Then said passengers having to buy tickets again for travel.

What a cluster.

 

[Anderson]

Sounds like a plan.

Sounds like a plan.

Apparently reports of Amtrak getting hotel for the passengers were premature. Even worse there are reports of the first Acela kicking passengers off with tickets for 66 the previous night. Then said passengers having to buy tickets again for travel.

What a cluster.

At that point I'm charging Amtrak back for the original ticket purchase, buying a flight on AA or DL, and sending Amtrak the bill in a demand letter.

 

[Brian Battuello]

In the past 50 years, I've been ready to give up on Amtrak about 10 times, or about once every five years. This may be one of those years...

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The Amtrak application now has a 10 point pledge of service.

“Putting Customers First”

Not sure how long ago this changed, but it seem “your mileage will vary”.

• If you are inconvenienced overnight while enroute to your destination due to a delay, missed connection, or cancellation within Amtrak’s control, when available, we will provide accommodations at Amtrak-contracted hotels or in Amtrak sleeper cars.

Only real problem this situation was not a enroute problem for those passengers who got denied boarding by a closed door.

 

[Deni]

I've never been able to understand this practice of not allowing pax on the platform until they announce boarding. It certainly didn't use to be this way. A friend and I were once running so late to Union Station in Chicago (problem on the L) that we actually ran onto the platform and caught the IL Zephyr as it was pulling out, like a scene form an old movie. (My one and only time to get to do that.) I'm just not sure what this newer way of doing it gets for them?

I've traveled around the world and taken trains on every habitable continent except Australia and I don't think I've seen this done anywhere. (I've not been to EVERY country, so I concede there may be other places besides Amtrak this is done) Sure, place like Japan and Taiwan have gates to scan your ticket to get through - this is mostly how they check tickets, rather than by onboard conductors - but you are not locked out until just before the train leaves. I've spent quite a bit of time on the platform watching trains go by before my train shows. I just don't understand Amtrak's reasoning for this policy. I'll bet it has something to do with 9/11. Pointless security theater.

 

[Anderson]

I've never been able to understand this practice of not allowing pax on the platform until they announce boarding. It certainly didn't use to be this way. A friend and I were once running so late to Union Station in Chicago (problem on the L) that we actually ran onto the platform and caught the IL Zephyr as it was pulling out, like a scene form an old movie. (My one and only time to get to do that.) I'm just not sure what this newer way of doing it gets for them?

I've traveled around the world and taken trains on every habitable continent except Australia and I don't think I've seen this done anywhere. (I've not been to EVERY country, so I concede there may be other places besides Amtrak this is done) Sure, place like Japan and Taiwan have gates to scan your ticket to get through - this is mostly how they check tickets, rather than by onboard conductors - but you are not locked out until just before the train leaves. I've spent quite a bit of time on the platform watching trains go by before my train shows. I just don't understand Amtrak's reasoning for this policy. I'll bet it has something to do with 9/11. Pointless security theater.

IIRC that was part of the pretext for getting rid of unreserved coach seats on the NEC...

 

[Stevenz]

The conductor may have thought that the Rapture had occurred.

I've never been able to understand this practice of not allowing pax on the platform until they announce boarding. It certainly didn't use to be this way. A friend and I were once running so late to Union Station in Chicago (problem on the L) that we actually ran onto the platform and caught the IL Zephyr as it was pulling out, like a scene form an old movie. (My one and only time to get to do that.) I'm just not sure what this newer way of doing it gets for them?

I've traveled around the world and taken trains on every habitable continent except Australia and I don't think I've seen this done anywhere. (I've not been to EVERY country, so I concede there may be other places besides Amtrak this is done) Sure, place like Japan and Taiwan have gates to scan your ticket to get through - this is mostly how they check tickets, rather than by onboard conductors - but you are not locked out until just before the train leaves. I've spent quite a bit of time on the platform watching trains go by before my train shows. I just don't understand Amtrak's reasoning for this policy. I'll bet it has something to do with 9/11. Pointless security theater.

It’s an exaggerated response to minuscule and imaginary risks.

One Example: When I was a kid regularly riding PRR between Paoli and Pittsburgh (East Liberty) with my mother I spent a good part of the trip just standing in the vestibule looking out the window. I was never harmed and I would never have been harmed. But some idiot at a desk with too much time on his hands decided we can’t do that now. In myriad such ways the world is being drained of its colour.

 

[glensfallsse]

It's worth considering that this may be a management issue. The train crew probably had instructions that passenger flow from the gate is someone else's duty, and the rule book says to leave at a certain time, and if they leave late the metrics will ding them for running a late train. The boxes were all checked, so they left.
There should be training that if something like this happens, you chuck the rule book and go find out what's wrong. And you earn praise for doing that. Maybe that's the case and the train crew ignored it, I don't know, but for whatever reason, they didn't feel comfortable holding that train even though they had to know there were too many empty seats. That's a management issue.

 

[blueman271]

The initial response according to Reddit posters was passengers were told to rebook, at $250 in some cases, and no refunds since train 66 was not cancelled.

The WMATA Orange line goes to New Carrollton. Take advantage of it.

Ditto for NYPS. Don't shlep to Moynihan (unless headed to Canada for non-sensical check-in procedure). Board through any number of stairways in Legacy Penn. More ticketed waiting area seating available in less crowded conditions. The retail food options are cheaper too.

No lines, no Gate Dragons, no yelling, no stupidity, no ordering to stand in a single file like to 1st graders in parochial school. I went through that crap in Moynihan 16 months ago. Took Trailways 4 months ago instead from PABT That was a very pleasurable trip all around. It was also great in 2018 when Amtrak was running out of GCT. The Penn Station Clown Show did not replicate.

Amtrak has not learned how to behave professionally in 53 years. Ergo, they never will don't matter how much money is thrown at them, nor how many palatial, vanity project train stations are built for them.

There is no need to wait in Penn to avoid the Amtrak gate dragons. Stay in Moynihan, enjoy the amenities and the sunlight, wait for your trains track to be posted, head down to the West End Concourse and get on the train. Bypasses the lines and the gate dragons and allows people to stay out of the basement that is Penn.

 

[blueman271]

It's worth considering that this may be a management issue. The train crew probably had instructions that passenger flow from the gate is someone else's duty, and the rule book says to leave at a certain time, and if they leave late the metrics will ding them for running a late train. The boxes were all checked, so they left.
There should be training that if something like this happens, you chuck the rule book and go find out what's wrong. And you earn praise for doing that. Maybe that's the case and the train crew ignored it, I don't know, but this has the symptoms of a system that's rule-heavy.

I disagree that this is a symptom of a rule heavy system. This seems like a crew that was practicing malicious compliance, ie they were told to do something they knew wouldn’t work but followed orders anyway. You see it a bunch when workers are frustrated with bad supervisors and have reached their limits. Instead of complaining or continuing to fight you simply do what you’re told consequences be damned.

 

[Willbridge]

I disagree that this is a symptom of a rule heavy system. This seems like a crew that was practicing malicious compliance, ie they were told to do something they knew wouldn’t work but followed orders anyway. You see it a bunch when workers are frustrated with bad supervisors and have reached their limits. Instead of complaining or continuing to fight you simply do what you’re told consequences be damned.

I experienced that in the Army a couple of times. NCO's who were insecure refused to take information from low rank soldiers who had valuable experience. This situation may parallel that.

 

[AFS1970]

One reason they restrict platform access in the bigger stations is to keep the undesirables away from the trains. I rode NEC many times in the pre 9/11/2001 days, and there was a girl who would get on quite a few trains begging for money, always telling the same story that she had a fight with her boyfriend who left her stranded and she just needed a few more dollars for a ticket home. After the platforms were restricted, she had to go get another scam.

 

[Tom C]

There is no need to wait in Penn to avoid the Amtrak gate dragons. Stay in Moynihan, enjoy the amenities and the sunlight, wait for your trains track to be posted, head down to the West End Concourse and get on the train. Bypasses the lines and the gate dragons and allows people to stay out of the basement that is Penn.

You can also use the elevators on the east end of the train hall to avoid walking down to the West End Concourse. They also bypass the line. I wait in the metropolitan lounge - when they announce the track in the lounge (usually before it goes on the PIDS) I head down the lounge escalator and head for the elevator for whatever track - easy peasy.

 

[Cal]

One reason they restrict platform access in the bigger stations is to keep the undesirables away from the trains. I rode NEC many times in the pre 9/11/2001 days, and there was a girl who would get on quite a few trains begging for money, always telling the same story that she had a fight with her boyfriend who left her stranded and she just needed a few more dollars for a ticket home. After the platforms were restricted, she had to go get another scam.

Then have security routinely walk platforms, and theres someone who is suspicious, ask for a ticket. Make it policy that you must be ticketed to be on the platform.

 

[Anderson]

Then have security routinely walk platforms, and theres someone who is suspicious, ask for a ticket. Make it policy that you must be ticketed to be on the platform.

Also, in this day and age it should be possible to use cameras and so on to identify such people and trespass them.

It was really interesting seeing one guy's reaction - he was asking for money for a bus ticket to Columbia, SC (from Atlanta, GA) for a funeral. So I offered to buy him a (non-refundable) Greyhound ticket right then and there and pulled up Greyhound's website. The way I saw it, either I'd spend $30 on a good deed or he'd do a double-take. He did a double-take and backed off really fast.

 

[Cal]

Also, in this day and age it should be possible to use cameras and so on to identify such people and trespass them.

Oh totally. There are plenty of ways to have secure platforms without making it an airline-style gate system.

It was really interesting seeing one guy's reaction - he was asking for money for a bus ticket to Columbia, SC (from Atlanta, GA) for a funeral. So I offered to buy him a (non-refundable) Greyhound ticket right then and there and pulled up Greyhound's website. The way I saw it, either I'd spend $30 on a good deed or he'd do a double-take. He did a double-take and backed off really fast.

Love this.

 

[Amtrak25]

Then have security routinely walk platforms, and theres someone who is suspicious, ask for a ticket. Make it policy that you must be ticketed to be on the platform

It is not a requirement to board an NJT or LIRR train with a ticket. So not feasible when various Penn Station tracks are shared by up to 3 railroads, often an Amtrak and NJT train loading simultaneously from the same platform. There are many stairways to each platform. It is not possible to have someone running around interrupting people from all directions to check tickets. This is not LAUS.

 

[MARC Rider]

You can also use the elevators on the east end of the train hall to avoid walking down to the West End Concourse. They also bypass the line.

Yeah, but sometimes there's a line for the elevator.