Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[PRR 60]

They're taking bets in Las Vegas. Will Siemens deliver the last of their 137 cars before CAF fulfills the Viewliner order? Even money?

 

[neroden]

http://www.dot.ca.gov/paffairs/pr/2017/prs/17pr117.html

It would appear that single level cars will happen....

They're going to have to start raising platforms.

The ADA requirements don't magically go away because of manufacturing issues, and nothing the state or federal government does can avoid the private lawsuits. They can put portable lifts everywhere, but they'll have to schedule good long station dwells for them, and there are already serious questions about whether they're actually nondiscriminatory...

Maybe Caltrans can do a swap with Caltrain or something, since Caltrain is *already* planning to raise their platforms. Or put the bilevels on the Surfliner route and move all the single-levels to the northern routes on freight-owned track where they can't raise the platforms due to freight operator interference.

The Midwest is stuck: they will simply have to raise their platforms. It would make the most sense to start with Michigan where the line has no freight.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

High level platforms do not restrict normal freight, only over dimensional, like high wide .

some of those lads can be moved by road or barge.

 

[jis]

There is one bizarre coincidence that occurred to me....

Gene Skorpowski, who was instrumental in setting up the Capitol Corridor, and the general setup of Amtrak California, then moved on to Florida to set up Brightline, including participating hands on in negotiating the design of the Brightline rolling stock with Siemens.

Coincidentally, the delivery of Phase I of the Brightline order was just completed by Siemens as the N-S contract collapsed. This appears to have caused the Gene instigated car design for Brightline to now get adopted for the previous Gene instigated Amtrak California world!

Incidentally, Gene was there at the Rail Nation shindig, and I had a nice conversation with him about Brightline. He has retired back in July, but still visits Brightline-land from time to time.

 

[A Voice]

I rather wait for equipment that works for our system than high floor cars that would be a downgrade any which way you look at it.

I'm not sure how its a downgrade when most of the equipment on the routes these cars will replace is already single-level, with comparable passenger capacity. Only in California are bi-level cars to be found, even there not exclusively, and while they were the entity seeking a bi-level design in the first place, California needs more cars now.

They're going to have to start raising platforms.

The ADA requirements don't magically go away because of manufacturing issues, and nothing the state or federal government does can avoid the private lawsuits. They can put portable lifts everywhere, but they'll have to schedule good long station dwells for them, and there are already serious questions about whether they're actually nondiscriminatory...

Maybe Caltrans can do a swap with Caltrain or something, since Caltrain is *already* planning to raise their platforms. Or put the bilevels on the Surfliner route and move all the single-levels to the northern routes on freight-owned track where they can't raise the platforms due to freight operator interference.

The Midwest is stuck: they will simply have to raise their platforms. It would make the most sense to start with Michigan where the line has no freight.

Not going to happen; High platforms along the freight shared Midwest tracks are a pipe dream at best. If ADA accessibility were really such a major stumbling block, they could have called up Talgo instead of Siemens. They didn't.

 

[Steve4031]

Won’t these new cars have automatic doors and steps? If I understand correctly they aren't as high as the horizon and amfleet cars.

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[jis]

Won’t these new cars have automatic doors and steps? If I understand correctly they aren't as high as the horizon and amfleet cars.

I don't know the specifics of these cars. But the Brightline cars are standard floor 4' above rail, cars using 4' above rail top platforms.

The Brightline cars have remotely operated doors with automatically deployed bridge plates. Brightline cars do not have traps. they Theya re designed to operate only from high level platform stations.

Of course, these cars will have traps. I have no idea what will be remotely operable and to what extent the steps will be self deploying. Most European cars appear to have steps that deploy automatically outside the car as the doors open. I guess we will have to wait to see what the details of that will be.

 

[Steve4031]

I rode equipment in Europewith boarding from low level platforms. The doors usually opened automatically with the push of a button from the inside or outside. The stairs did not open like the traps that we know. They were just there. The climb up from the platform did not seem as severe as it is here. Think turboliner or talgo.

When I first rode I these types of cars I was hesitant about pushing the button and waited for doors to open automatically. An impatient local would reach around and push the button. Then I would do so too.

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[brianpmcdonnell17]

http://www.dot.ca.gov/paffairs/pr/2017/prs/17pr117.html

It would appear that single level cars will happen....

They're going to have to start raising platforms.
The ADA requirements don't magically go away because of manufacturing issues, and nothing the state or federal government does can avoid the private lawsuits. They can put portable lifts everywhere, but they'll have to schedule good long station dwells for them, and there are already serious questions about whether they're actually nondiscriminatory...

Maybe Caltrans can do a swap with Caltrain or something, since Caltrain is *already* planning to raise their platforms. Or put the bilevels on the Surfliner route and move all the single-levels to the northern routes on freight-owned track where they can't raise the platforms due to freight operator interference.

The Midwest is stuck: they will simply have to raise their platforms. It would make the most sense to start with Michigan where the line has no freight.

I believe stations that have Superliner trains can continue without high level platforms. All of the Illinois stations with the exception of two on the Illinois Zephyr/Carl Sandburg at least have Superliner trains operating through them, so if they begin stopping at those stations a high-level platform could be avoided. The same could be said for Wisconsin if the EB began stopping at Milwaukee Airport and Sturtevant. However, the Michigan Services and Missouri River Runner (with the exception of St. Louis and Kansas City) do not have LD trains operating through their stations. As of now, the Pere Marquette is the only of these trains to regularly use Superliners. I wouldn't be surprised if Amtrak found a way to use more Superliners in the Midwest (especially with the delay in the Gulf Coast service) and allocated the current Pere Marquette set strategically. For example, two sets could be used to cover a train on the Wolverine and Missouri River Runner with only the Pere Marquette and Blue Water east of Battle Creek stations requiring high-level platforms.
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[jis]

The ADA requirements don't magically go away because of manufacturing issues, and nothing the state or federal government does can avoid the private lawsuits. They can put portable lifts everywhere, but they'll have to schedule good long station dwells for them, and there are already serious questions about whether they're actually nondiscriminatory...

It will be interesting to see what their plans are and how things will unfold.

Maybe Caltrans can do a swap with Caltrain or something, since Caltrain is *already* planning to raise their platforms. Or put the bilevels on the Surfliner route and move all the single-levels to the northern routes on freight-owned track where they can't raise the platforms due to freight operator interference.

CalTrain does not require trailer cars. They are getting EMUs. So that is just a pipe dream that won't come to pass

The Midwest is stuck: they will simply have to raise their platforms. It would make the most sense to start with Michigan where the line has no freight.

If they are on a freight line they probably will get away with doing nothing. On exclusive passenger lines or where it is feasible to put in gauntlet tracks or loops, slowly moving to HL platforms would make the most sense. Chicago union Station would be an interesting issue.

At least these cars will now be compatible with California HSR's high level platform stations.

 

[PerRock]

For the ADA requirements, we'll probably start seeing more split-level stations, like what Ann Arbor has. Just hopefully the staff use a boarding procedure that makes sense, last time I boarded at ARB, they were forcing everyone to enter via one door on the elevated platform & instructing people to walk back down the train X# of cars.

peter

 

[frequentflyer]

And didn't the midwest states start to reconsider the need for bilevels? This is a good outcome. The politicians get shiny new cars to go with the shiny new Locomotives.

I am curious what pax cars does will this free up for Amtrak?

To those who stated you rather wait for a new bilevel design, one must have a lot of faith that the funding will still be in effect six to seven years from now.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

And didn't the midwest states start to reconsider the need for bilevels? This is a good outcome. The politicians get shiny new cars to go with the shiny new Locomotives.

I am curious what pax cars does will this free up for Amtrak?

To those who stated you rather wait for a new bilevel design, one must have a lot of faith that the funding will still be in effect six to seven years from now.

Bi-levels would have been a better fit due to the higher capacity and low platforms of the Midwest, but I agree that single-levels in the near future are better than bi-levels many years away. These cars will free up Horizons, which may eventually be modified as single-level long distance cars.

 

[jis]

And if in the future a bi-level order were to materialize, these cars could easily be cascaded to Amtrak LD or even Corridor service with perhaps some minor change in furnishing.

 

[jis]

From the Trains Magazine on this subject:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/11/09-siemens-midwest

 

[nti1094]

Doesn't the bridge plate design on Brightline exist because the platforms are set back further than normal 4' platforms to allow for wide freight loading gauge? It was either that or install and use gauntlet tracks like one might find on the NJT Raritan line or the SMART training Marin and Sonoma.

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[jis]

Doesn't the bridge plate design on Brightline exist because the platforms are set back further than normal 4' platforms to allow for wide freight loading gauge? It was either that or install and use gauntlet tracks like one might find on the NJT Raritan line or the SMART training Marin and Sonoma.

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No. The Brightline platforms are not set back further than usual. The Bridge Plates are there to simply not have any gaps at any doors and making all doors ADA accessible without requiring deployment of additional Bridge Plates by train crew.

Brightline track layout isolates the platform tracks from freight operations. Brightline stations at Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach have separate freight bypass tracks around the station. All future stations will too. There will normally be no freight operation through platform tracks. No freight train will ever go to the Miami Central or Orlando Airport stations. The future station in Cocoa-Rockledge is also planned to have a freight bypass track.

 

[CraigDK]

No one has yet mentioned that California is getting an additional 7 cars while the Midwest States are only receiving the original base number. I am wondering if the Midwest States might have got something else in this revised deal... maybe Sumitomo is (at least partially) on the hook for station modifications to meet ADA requirements.

 

[keelhauled]

From the Trains Magazine on this subject:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/11/09-siemens-midwest

In classic Trains fashion, they copied and pasted the press release. Sometimes I wonder why I pay them.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You think lifts are burdensome? Than explain to me how NJT continues to order high-level busses, the only property to do so. I heard they had to pay more for the things.

 

[Anthony V]

The ADA requirements can be met with the single level cars by building ramps on a portion of every platform these trains will use as shown in the picture below of the Music City Star Riverfront Station in Nashville, TN. The bridge plates on the Siemens cars will rest on the level part of the ramps, allowing disabled access.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I thought music city star used ex-Metra gallery cars.

 

[me_little_me]

God, stop with the thread splitting. The organic conversation we should have!

Yeah, just fix the title of the thread to “Sumitomo Contract for 130 Cars” or some such to reflect reality [emoji57]

The admins, like the California Department of Transportation, just rewrote the title and all is well

 

[A Voice]

I thought music city star used ex-Metra gallery cars.

It does. Former Amtrak F40PH diesels and ex-Metra Gallery Cars.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Whattathey need a mini high for?