Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[brianpmcdonnell17]

For California nearly all of the cars are intended as new capacity. The exception is that the existing Amfleet and Horizon consists were going to be replaced. But that was partly because replacing them with bilevels would speed boarding. :-( So at this point it's quite possible they will all be new capacity.

By contrast, the Midwest order is mostly replacement of existing cars leased from Amtrak, with expansion for a couple of planned service expansions (Moline, increased service on a couple of other lines).

Is it known which other lines will see increased service? I believe the Pere Marquette and Blue Water should be prioritized, as such short routes with only one daily frequency on each severely hinders ridership.
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IIRC, Chicago-St Louis for sure because they have promised and funded another frequency. Unfortunately all the others are dependent on uncertain state funding so, no nobody knows which other lines will see increased service -- probably none of them in the short term. :-( Really depends who wins the legislative and gubernatorial elections in Michigan, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

Yeah, politics is obviously an issue. I am hopeful, however, as little significant progress has been made by the new administration so I would be surprised if most states didn't make at least somewhat of a turn back in the other direction in 2018. Besides the operational funding, how much start-up funding and time would likely be required before a second Pere Marquette (or another similar route) could be implemented?
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[PerRock]

For California nearly all of the cars are intended as new capacity. The exception is that the existing Amfleet and Horizon consists were going to be replaced. But that was partly because replacing them with bilevels would speed boarding. :-( So at this point it's quite possible they will all be new capacity.

By contrast, the Midwest order is mostly replacement of existing cars leased from Amtrak, with expansion for a couple of planned service expansions (Moline, increased service on a couple of other lines).

Is it known which other lines will see increased service? I believe the Pere Marquette and Blue Water should be prioritized, as such short routes with only one daily frequency on each severely hinders ridership.
Sent from my SM-J327P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

None of the Michigan Service trains will see any increase in the frequency of trains until Indiana gets sorted out. Currently there isn't any more space on the Norfolk Southern tracks across Indiana. There are some projects in the works to ease the congestion there.

Amtrak's holiday trains on that section essentially take the relief spot on the tracks, so any problem that happens when those trains are running means some train gets cancelled (could be an NS train, could be an Amtrak train).

MDOT does want to increase the frequency of the Wolverine (at least). So once the line is improved you should see an added trip on that line.

peter

 

[amtrakpass]

I would guess the hold-up on additional Michigan frequencies is the state of Michigan not wanting to pay what Amtrak is asking or not having the funding. If they are willing and have funding,then perhaps NS is just stonewalling. The Indiana projects with new interlockings and 3rd main track are complete and in-service. In fact, PTC is in effect between Elkhart and Chicago at least for a few trains in a testing phase. I know people like to talk about big delays between Chicago and Porter but I have not seen anything major as far as Amtrak delays on the NS Chicago Line since the auto-router meltdown which has been several years ago now. Of course Amtrak might take a hit on occassion like the stuck draw-bridge the other day or delays on the day you happen to take the train but there is plenty of capacity for more Amtrak on this line on a day to day basis right now. Hoping for a daytime service to and from Cleveland or Pittsburgh myself in addition to more Michigan service. Hoping these nice new Siemens cars will be a harbinger of increased midwestern service!

 

[neroden]

MDOT is, last I checked, blaming the FRA for the lack of progress on "South of the Lake". But bluntly I expect MDOT to do nothing much for increased service unless a friendly *state* administration is elected.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

MDOT is, last I checked, blaming the FRA for the lack of progress on "South of the Lake".

The website for the "South of the Lake" project went dark. I had it bookmarked, but I should have saved the content ... anyway.

Now some "volunteer" has set up housekeeping at the old site. Michigan didn't even renew the domain name. LOL.

The imposter has done a pretty good job imitating the officialese style with his site -- except for lacking maps, figures, dates and timelines, or other useful info.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

Railroad.net had a link to redenderings of some of the proposed Siemens single-level passenger cars. Here's the link:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/transprog/ctcbooks/2017/1217/Presentations/Tab52_Single_level_Railcar.pdf

 

[frequentflyer]

Hi,

Railroad.net had a link to redenderings of some of the proposed Siemens single-level passenger cars. Here's the link:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/transprog/ctcbooks/2017/1217/Presentations/Tab52_Single_level_Railcar.pdf

The Cab car question is answered.

 

[jis]

The interior looks very much like the Brightline cars.

Too bad they did not give the numbers of individual types of cars - Coach, Business and Cab/Coach.

The Cab car looks like they glue on a SC-44 safety cab structure onto one end of the car, with quite a bit of crumple zone behind it and ahead of the passenger compartment.

 

[Blackwolf]

The interior looks very much like the Brightline cars.

Too bad they did not give the numbers of individual types of cars - Coach, Business and Cab/Coach.

The Cab car looks like they glue on a SC-44 safety cab structure onto one end of the car, with quite a bit of crumple zone behind it and ahead of the passenger compartment.

Indeed. Wonder if they're planning on taking a page from the Cascades Talgos and have a baggage storage area and/or HEP generator in the space behind the cab. Since its just an artist render, one cannot say for sure the louvering and machinery indicated above and just behind the cab really means much. Or the large door placed in the space between the cab and passenger windows.

 

[Eric S]

The interior looks very much like the Brightline cars.

Too bad they did not give the numbers of individual types of cars - Coach, Business and Cab/Coach.

The Cab car looks like they glue on a SC-44 safety cab structure onto one end of the car, with quite a bit of crumple zone behind it and ahead of the passenger compartment.

I saw that breakdown somewhere in the last few days. Perhaps in the most recent issue of TRAINS magazine? I'll try to dig it up later today.

 

[A Voice]

The interior looks very much like the Brightline cars.

Too bad they did not give the numbers of individual types of cars - Coach, Business and Cab/Coach.

The Cab car looks like they glue on a SC-44 safety cab structure onto one end of the car, with quite a bit of crumple zone behind it and ahead of the passenger compartment.

Fifty-four coaches and seventeen each of cafe and coach/business class cars for the Midwest (no cab cars). Thirty-five coaches, seven cafe, and seven cab cars for California.

The thought that strikes me is that we're now talking five years for delivery of the last car of a current production model from an open, existing facility.

 

[west point]

5 years ? Does that mean that there are no available building slots for some Amtrak units ? Let us hope that is not the case ? If so its back to CAF for Amtrak ? There may be Brightline option slots involved as well ?

 

[jis]

I bet the five years includes slots for the Caltrans/IDOT order plus the Birghtline top up (a total of some 8 or 10 consists with ten cars each built including the current 5 consists of 4 cars each, if I recall correctly) that is due in the 2020 timeframe. I am sure if Amtrak places a substantial order they will figure out some way to deliver it. Afterall, by then Siemens Mobility and Alstom will be the same company too, most likely.

My suspicion is that some of the stretching out to 2023 may have to do with the ability of the Midwest states to line up funding for this, since the Feddiebux with time limitations are probably gone.

 

[A Voice]

My suspicion is that some of the stretching out to 2023 may have to do with the ability of the Midwest states to line up funding for this, since the Feddiebux with time limitations are probably gone.

I would tend to suspect the same, as I've seen it reported that the Midwest cars are, indeed, being constructed with state funds.

I have serious doubts that Brightline will ever actually need all its cars, but I digress.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I dunno; I was fairly certain Brightline wasn't going to ever turn a wheel, and it has already done that. So while I will never hold my breath for a rail start up, I am more optimistic than for most.

 

[jis]

I think AAF will take delivery of everything and then simply start a side business of equipment leasing should they not need some of it for the time being. Since they have been seriously talking about service to Jacksonville of late, I suspect they will eventually need them. And meanwhile there will always be some state operation that could do with a few high quality cars and engines instead of trying to glue together stuff from the 1950's.

heck New York State could do wonders with say four or five six or seven car sets., albeit with regular AAR couplers in the end cars.

 

[Blackwolf]

The break-down of which California routes see the new single-level cars is one I have interest in seeing.

If, as I suspect, that the vast majority go:

• to the very early/late Capitol Corridor runs
• the San Luis Obispo - San Diego Surfliner run
• all but a handful of San Joaquin trains.

I see that the manufacturer lies alongside the San Joaquin route as a very big benefit because it is only a matter of when, an not even slightly if, there is an incident where one of these new Siemens cab cars crashes into a farm truck or car in the central valley. Having the factory right there means repair will be much more expedient.

 

[CCC1007]

The break-down of which California routes see the new single-level cars is one I have interest in seeing.

If, as I suspect, that the vast majority go:

• to the very early/late Capitol Corridor runs
• the San Luis Obispo - San Diego Surfliner run
• all but a handful of San Joaquin trains.

I see that the manufacturer lies alongside the San Joaquin route as a very big benefit because it is only a matter of when, an not even slightly if, there is an incident where one of these new Siemens cab cars crashes into a farm truck or car in the central valley. Having the factory right there means repair will be much more expedient.

I think the single level cars should find a home on the San Joaquin trains, especially when they move to the new CAHSR line that is under construction. If I recall correctly, that was one of the stipulations of the federal funds for the high speed project, that Amtrak shift to the line until it is operating with true high speed trains.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Unless CA has a contract with Siemens to do wreck repairs, it wont really matter how close they are to the plant. Even if they did, theres no guarantee that the manufacturing plant is where theyd do the repair.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Unless CA has a contract with Siemens to do wreck repairs, it wont really matter how close they are to the plant. Even if they did, theres no guarantee that the manufacturing plant is where theyd do the repair.

Ok. Totally random, off-topic, but why is the board deleting my apostrophe to make the contraction of they would (theyd)? Because I am nit-picky about it, I tried editing it twice and it keeps on being removed.

 

[Ryan]

Don’t think it’s the board...

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

What else could it be? No matter how many times I put the apostrophe in, and visually verify that it’s still there (no poorly functioning autocorrect to take it away when I look away), and click submit with the apostrophe correctly there, when the post appears on the board, it’s gone.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Its the fact that your device, proabavly an iPhone, auto corrects to a directional apostrophe which the board doesnt recognize.

 

[Ryan]

Given that your second post and mine both contain them (as does this one), it wouldn’t appear to be the board.

Did you use the same browser/computer for both posts?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

It’s fine if I’m writing “it’s” or “I’m.” But in the specific contraction of “they would” (they’d), it wouldn’t let me keep the apostrophe. Let’s see how it works in this post.