Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[joelkfla]

One interesting question though . . . since the LD trains are all turned at their termination points (?) could Amtrak order all forward-facing fixed seats?

Or maybe they wouldn't need to turn them anymore.

 

[jis]

each order is different , do we actually know what seats Amtrak is ordering ?

No. We do not know what sort of seats Amtrak is ordering for the Regional Amfleet I replacement train set order yet.

Has Amtrak even ordered Amfleet II replacements yet? I thought it was obvious that these cars are only operating on short-distance trains.

We do not know what Amtrak will order for the Amfleet II replacement yet, though there is speculation that there is a high probability that whatever is ordered will be based on the basic Venture car body and trucks. As for what will go inside, there isn't even a vague hint from anyone at Amtrak yet.

 

[jis]

One interesting question though . . . since the LD trains are all turned at their termination points (?) could Amtrak order all forward-facing fixed seats?

Or maybe they wouldn't need to turn them anymore.

Indeed, we don't know whether Amtrak would like to take this opportunity to make those trains double ended with a power head at each end so as to save on turning the trains, though they will of necessity get turned at Penn Station since there is no easy way to enter the Sunnyside Yards from Penn Station without getting turned.

Actually for that very reason, the LD trains may be turned at the other end of their journey irrespective of whether they are double ended or not, to keep the car positions the same relative to the front.

We will get a hint about it from how they set things up and operate the Regional sets terminating in NY, specially for trains like the Palmetto and the Pennsylvanian.

Then again, there is a convoluted way to get trains to Sunnyside from NYP but one would not want to do so during rush hours.

 

[Mailliw]

Or maybe they wouldn't need to turn them anymore.

If Amtrak goes that route they really need to have reversible seating in long distance coaches.

 

[jiml]

It wouldn't be a surprise to see Amtrak mirror the VIA order with 50/50 non-reversible seating.

 

[jis]

It wouldn't be a surprise to see Amtrak mirror the VIA order with 50/50 non-reversible seating.

I can see that happening in the Regional Amfleet I replacement.

However, I think that the LD Amfleet II replacement is an entirely different thing as far as internal layout goes. VIA has not ordered any real LD Coaches in a long time. Was Renn their last serious LD Coach order? Or did they order more rolling stock for LD trains since then?

 

[jiml]

I can see that happening in the Regional Amfleet I replacement.

However, I think that the LD Amfleet II replacement is an entirely different thing as far as internal layout goes. VIA has not ordered any real LD Coaches in a long time. Was Renn their last serious LD Coach order? Or did they order more rolling stock for LD trains since then?

Good point, nothing recent. In addition to the Renn coaches, which I believe were received as configured for Nightstar (as opposed those that were modified*), they refurbished some previously Amtrak coaches for the HEP-2 fleet. I think the latter has fixed seating, similar to that installed in the latest LRC reno, whereas the HEP-1's are changeable. The HEP-2's are being used on the Ocean, although the way the train is now turned in Halifax this isn't a disadvantage, while reducing labor.

* diners, baggage cars

 

[jis]

This from RPA in their Feb 11 Hotline:

“We’re planning an official grand opening in mid-February,” said Jennifer Bastian, Section Chief of Passenger Rail Rolling Stock at IDOT. “The first ‘married pair’ of a coach-cafe and business-class car is leaving Siemens in Sacramento this week, and we have to determine when it will fit into the next consist that we release.”

 

[Mailliw]

I for one can't wait for the married pairs to be released so we can see what they actually consist of.

 

[Cal]

This from RPA in their Feb 11 Hotline:

well it is mid February..

 

[jamess]

I rode Spirit for the first time a few weeks ago. The seats were comfortable for my 2+ hour flights. I don’t think they would have become uncomfortable for a longer flight.

I admit I didnt fly Spirit, but I did fly Allegiant a couple of years ago on a 2.5 hour flight, and it was horrendous. Based on that trip alone, I will never fly them again for anything longer than 90 minutes.

I dont understand why Amtrak would want to put themselves in a similar competitive situation

 

[neroden]

I admit I didnt fly Spirit, but I did fly Allegiant a couple of years ago on a 2.5 hour flight, and it was horrendous. Based on that trip alone, I will never fly them again for anything longer than 90 minutes.

I dont understand why Amtrak would want to put themselves in a similar competitive situation

Ask the Midwestern states, in this case

 

[IndyLions]

Ask the Midwestern states, in this case

I think this discussion has gotten off the rails a little bit. There’s nothing in any of the photos I have seen to indicate that the seats on the Midwestern cars are anything like Spirit, Allegiant, or Frontier. That would be a huge exaggeration. They are not 3 x 3, they are not designed for the ultimate in weight savings to save Jet fuel, and they don’t have tiny fold-down trays.

 

[rs9]

I think this discussion has gotten off the rails a little bit. There’s nothing in any of the photos I have seen to indicate that the seats on the Midwestern cars are anything like Spirit, Allegiant, or Frontier. That would be a huge exaggeration. They are not 3 x 3, they are not designed for the ultimate in weight savings to save Jet fuel, and they don’t have tiny fold-down trays.

The actual question here is whether anyone still manufactures seats like on the aging Amtrak fleets. My guess is the world has moved on.

I've been fortunate to travel by train in a number of countries, most recently in Spain right before the pandemic. The high-speed RENFE trains had seats very similar to the Venture cars, except they were all synthetic leather.

The US is not the leader in train transport, so we're not going to set the market.

 

[jamess]

I think this discussion has gotten off the rails a little bit. There’s nothing in any of the photos I have seen to indicate that the seats on the Midwestern cars are anything like Spirit, Allegiant, or Frontier. That would be a huge exaggeration. They are not 3 x 3, they are not designed for the ultimate in weight savings to save Jet fuel, and they don’t have tiny fold-down trays.

My concern is recline and cushion, which is where my comparison lies. While I havent been on this train yet, the pictures have me worried.

 

[TheMalahat]

Nicely done YouTube video; I enjoy the content from this crew!

 

[MARC Rider]

Nicely done YouTube video; I enjoy the content from this crew!

Based on the video, I'd say that the seat pitch/legroom of the Venture coaches is comparable to that of the Amfleet 1 corridor coaches. I'll have to actually ride them to be able to talk about the recline and comfort of the seat cushion. The seats seem a wee bit narrower. I like the location of the power outlets and the center armrest. The overhead racks seem a little skinny, but they seem to be able to hold reasonably sized suitcases. Being higher up than the Amfleets, the racks might make it a bit harder to hoist up bags and it's more of a reach to the overhead reading lights. These coaches should be compared with the Amfleet 1 and Horizon coaches. I think they'll be fine for corridor service.

 

[DSS&A]

More cars are are arriving in Chicago Union Station. Track #1 is filling up with the new cars. Coach #4001 has been parked on the track for about two weeks, possibly for employee orientation. It was joined last night with another coach and four business class cars. (I counted them out of my train window as we departed.)

 

[cocojacoby]

I didn't realize the odd door placement. So the doors alternate from side to side (i.e., example - one door at the front right and the other door at the rear left). Because of this unusual setup, unlike on Amfleet II, you don't gain the extra interior space by eliminating one vestibule. You still have the two vestibules even though you don't need them. Kind of a waste of space.

 

[Amtrak25]

The "GO carts" that the ONR bought for Northlander service were rebuilt with a similar catty-corner door positions. Amfleet-2 also seem to waste the space at the non-vestibule end. There are no bathroom or luggage bins there.

 

[DSS&A]

I didn't realize the odd door placement. So the doors alternate from side to side (i.e., example - one door at the front right and the other door at the rear left). Because of this unusual setup, unlike on Amfleet II, you don't gain the extra interior space by eliminating one vestibule. You still have the two vestibules even though you don't need them. Kind of a waste of space.

Hi,
You have a good point. One observation is that the two vestibules might be a part of the passenger safety design features to better protect the seating area in case of a crash. Does anyone know an answer as to why there are two vestibules?

 

[jrud]

There are some interesting updates in this presentation from the 2022 NGEC meeting.

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/8.a. NGEC 2022 Annual Meeting_CALIDOT 220222_1.pptx

 

[jis]

Hi,
You have a good point. One observation is that the two vestibules might be a part of the passenger safety design features to better protect the seating area in case of a crash. Does anyone know an answer as to why there are two vestibules?

Most likely your guess is right. There needs to be several feet of crumple zone for CEM at each end and that must be outside of the passenger compartment bubble. It is a requirement that the passenger compartment itself not crumple and retain its shape intact in a collision.

 

[cocojacoby]

Most likely your guess is right. There needs to be several feet of crumple zone for CEM at each end and that must be outside of the passenger compartment bubble. It is a requirement that the passenger compartment itself not crumple and retain its shape intact in a collision.

Maybe, but then why not put the two doors in the same vestibule area and put something else in the other vestibule area like a second restroom would seem very desirable. Maybe extra luggage racks opposite this additional restroom?

 

[Amtrak25]

Interior photo of new LIRR M-9 MU car, on the blind end of a married pair. Seats and windows go right up to that end. There is no crumple zone. Why is that ?