cars are permanently coupled , not like Venture cars.
Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)
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jis
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In the PRIIA Single Level Car spec it says that which of the four door positions are used for a door is left to the customer to decide. But the door positions are part of the structural element of the car. Although not stated as such explicitly, reading through many pages of the specification gives one the impression that the area is reserved for CEM crumple zone. Since irrespective of which customer it is, that area is left vacant of any passenger occupancy suggests that the conjecture might be correct.
Because they are not structured with Collision Energy Management. Generally American cars were designed without CEM crumple zones until the PRIIA specs introduced them and the Tier III Specifications from FRA required them. These cars are safer without paying a heavy weight penalty.
One sure sign of a car designed with CEM is the presence of significant unoccupied space at each end of the car for an area that is designed to crumple. You would not normally place people in an area that is designed to crumple.
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neroden
Engineer
The unoccupied area would be quite suitable for baggage storage, however.
Anyone know if the siemens car was open to pax or if it was just there for testing?
No Venture cars on 303 today.
Source: myself, a disappointed railfan. At least I'm in an Amfleet II.
Source: myself, a disappointed railfan. At least I'm in an Amfleet II.
I read somewhere else they all got pulled form service due to multiple defects.
jis
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Do you have a specific reference that we can look at?
Nope. Someone wrote it, who is usually very reliable, on another chatboard.
Saw one on the Hiawatha today, so "all" can't be true. I don't know if that one's carrying passengers, so there could be passenger-relevant defects (e.g. toilets) but it can't be defects that stop them from running at all (e.g. bad trucks).
west point
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So maybe a certain % of the cars might be road worthy but not passenger worthy??
We have no idea what parts supplies are back ordered? There are certainly a lot more passenger related parts than roadworthy parts. Most of those parts are used one way or another on freight cars. Passenger locos may be different.
We have no idea what parts supplies are back ordered? There are certainly a lot more passenger related parts than roadworthy parts. Most of those parts are used one way or another on freight cars. Passenger locos may be different.
PerRock
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My fairly reliable source said that the crews hate the new cars & so have been refusing to use them (that's why it seems like every posting about trying to ride them has the person getting put in an older car). I wouldn't be surprised if the crews that hate them are making up reports or nit-picking things in order to get the cars off their trains.
peter
Exactly. The only thing that could be an issue is those automatic doors on the bathrooms. The grumpy conductor has n my train warned passengers that these doors would stop working if a customer pulled on it rather than used the buttons.
That seems to be a design flaw. Mechanical devices designed to be used by the general public should be as "idiot-proof" as possible. Wonder if they had the same problem with these in their European applications.
It's not brand new technology. The ones on VIA's Metro-Cammell REN cars works fine every time I have used them.
Or Brightline. Haven't heard of that problem on Brightline, but there are a fairly limited number of trip reports online.
jis
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Maybe, maybe not. I have seen perfectly good design implemented poorly to cut corners, decisions made in the production line by geniuses who had little understanding of why the design was the way it was more times than I can count on the fingers of my two hands. There were even cases where the customer's genius project managers insisted on doing something over the objections of the manufacturers, because they were the customers and they knew better.
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MikefromCrete
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Apparently crews hate working with anything new. Anytime a new locomotive comes on line there are multiple reports about how terrible they are, worse than anything every seen before, etc. Eventually everybody calms down and the new equipment works just fine.
Reports of "everything is wrong with these cars and they all have been pulled from service" sounds like railfan rumours.
PerRock
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The fact that we're seeing a new car out on the Hiawatha for crew training would indicate that the Hiawatha should have the Venture cars on it soon.
peter
peter
I really, really hope this is not true.
crews can not refuse cars , unless a safety issue is preventing them. and such are pretty limited other than FRA rules. some cars are operating in a few European countries so it seems unless this country has more idiots we have passed idiot threshold. Redirect Notice
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Brian_tampa
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As some have noted above, perhaps the comparison between the Midwest experience and Brightline might come down to the different levels of support each organization has purchased from Siemens. If I recall, the Midwest Consortium does not have Siemens employees located at the shops that maintain the Venture cars and Chargers. Brightline does, but they also are paying north of $30M for their agreement over a 30 year time frame, if I recall correctly.
I believe VIA Rail has a similar support agreement as Brightline for their new 32 trainsets. I read somewhere that either Amtrak or the Midwest Consortium was looking to go with the more inclusive support services agreement as an after the fact change.
I believe VIA Rail has a similar support agreement as Brightline for their new 32 trainsets. I read somewhere that either Amtrak or the Midwest Consortium was looking to go with the more inclusive support services agreement as an after the fact change.
PerRock
Engineer
They may not be able to "refuse" cars. But they can just not use the cars that are on the train & I'm sure if enough crews using them complain about the same couple "issues" Amtrak mechanical will pull the cars to look at the "issues".
peter
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