Confused. So are cafe meals included, or not? I'm guessing - not.
jb
jb
Silver Star sleeper update
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Ryan
Court Jester
Not.
Concur. The one thing they're missing (and maybe they'll do this once the new diners start coming online) is sleeper fares without meals included on a train that has a dining car. I'd gladly take a paid trip with cheaper fares and only eat a meal or two from the dining car and supplement it with my own food, cafe car food, or meals before/after the trip.
The big issue is stocking enough food in the cafe car. If the stock runs out with some passengers going to the diner, it's only going to be worse with this set up. How and where is the extra food stored?
Seaboard92
Engineer
I'm one of the first to book a slumbercoach this summer. I'll let you know how it goes
andersone
Conductor
To me it seems like a reasonable experiment. Two similar geographic routes,,,, one with and one without.
I only hope they are collecting enough data to make a reasonable comparison,,,,,
let the rider beware !!
I only hope they are collecting enough data to make a reasonable comparison,,,,,
let the rider beware !!
I don't think that you could get the business in the dining car to support the dining car if all customers had to pay for it out of pocket. Most people would take the option of maybe eating one or two meals in the dining car and not eat an "expensive" meal in the dining car. If that happens, then there's less money going into the dining car. Unless they can reduce the costs beyond what they'll lose from income (and yes, sleeper car passengers pay to the dining car through their meals) it'll make the financials worse...and I can't see that ending well for the dining car (as what is there left to cut that would have a substantial impact on cost?)
chrsjrcj
OBS Chief
Looks like the prices for rooms on the Meteor have changed as well (and just scanning through a few dates, appear to be at the lowest bucket for now). If you booked rooms on the Meteor for this time period, I'd compare your fare to what it is now.
From a customer point of view, let's look at what the customer gets for less. Let's suppose a trip from Tampa (furthest single-seat ride only available on the Star) to NYP. The cost for a day in May, total, is $628. Let's just assume you can get four full meals (D,B,L,D). Then assume $30 per meal. If the sleeper will now cost $500, is out still worth it? Or would they reduce by $240, the cost of two people eating? $380 may be too little. Then you run into inventory problems.
chrsjrcj
OBS Chief
Too bad Amtrak couldn't possibly invest into an option with a beefed up cafe car. If we have diner-lite, maybe the Star should be cafe-heavy. Offer a slightly better selection of food, with maybe two attendants working, but still skip out on the premium food (steak, etc).
G
Guest
Guest
Can two people eat all their meals in the Café car, and have a good meal there, for a total of $65 (NYC to MIA)????
BTW, by "good meal", I don't mean quality as much as quantity in this comparison. And by "quantity", I mean a full meal, not just a bag of chips for lunch.
BTW, by "good meal", I don't mean quality as much as quantity in this comparison. And by "quantity", I mean a full meal, not just a bag of chips for lunch.
H
Henry Kisor
Guest
Now how will this play out with AGR points? Will sleeper rooms on this train use fewer points because no meals are served?
Ryan
Court Jester
I have reached out and asked that exact question. I'll post when I hear something.
sitzplatz17
Lead Service Attendant
So I just took a look at a random date in July (the 24th) and the roomate on 91 from WAS to ORL is only $7 more than the flexible coach fare.
It'll be interesting to see how this experiment works. I might look to give it a try sometime this summer...
It'll be interesting to see how this experiment works. I might look to give it a try sometime this summer...
Again, the issue isn't the presence/absence of bundling (I do wish a slumbercoach-ish option was available more often)...it's more the fact that now one can't get anything better on the Star than one can on the Adirondack. Note well that I've frequently cursed the food options (or lack thereof) on the Adirondack.
As I think I've said several times (and I'll probably say a few hundred more over the course of this), the issue isn't that they're going to one food service car. The issue is that they're likely overloading said food service car and aren't offering any real "entree" options (sorry, but a burger doesn't quite cut it). Going to one FSC (be it a "cafe plus/diner lite" or a "diner-club"/counter-service diner) with menu options somewhere in the middle wouldn't be the end of the world, but the complete removal of "full meal" service is the problem.
Edit: This experiment raises another question...namely, as some others have noted, how many sleepers could you pack with prices reduced to these levels? Up in the Northeast, low-bucket sleepers are now on par with low-bucket Business Class (I think the difference RVR-NYP is $7 for the Star versus Regional BC on most trains).
As I think I've said several times (and I'll probably say a few hundred more over the course of this), the issue isn't that they're going to one food service car. The issue is that they're likely overloading said food service car and aren't offering any real "entree" options (sorry, but a burger doesn't quite cut it). Going to one FSC (be it a "cafe plus/diner lite" or a "diner-club"/counter-service diner) with menu options somewhere in the middle wouldn't be the end of the world, but the complete removal of "full meal" service is the problem.
Edit: This experiment raises another question...namely, as some others have noted, how many sleepers could you pack with prices reduced to these levels? Up in the Northeast, low-bucket sleepers are now on par with low-bucket Business Class (I think the difference RVR-NYP is $7 for the Star versus Regional BC on most trains).
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My thinking is "why"? Let's say you book a room for a longer distance than me which would cost you $65 more if we both paid cash. We both would still have to spend the same # of AGR points for the trip.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
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AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day. 
I will use the money saved to have some good food in DC and then some.
I will use the money saved to have some good food in DC and then some.
Ryan
Court Jester
As it stands now, "price" in points depends on zones (all of the Silvers are one zoners, so not important) and level of amenity provided. Coach, gets you a seat. Roomette gets you a small room and meals. Bedroom gets you a big room and meals. A similar parallel on Acela Express where one of the biggest distinguishing factors between Business and First is the meal and beverage service. It would be nice if the number of points required for a meal-less sleeper is less than one that does provide meals. I suspect that they're not going to do it for a 6 month trial, but if this becomes permanent, I'd hope to see it.
Jis - when you make the reservation for the reduced food service train, are they in any way telling you of the food car situation?I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day.
That is, if they aren't, won't there be some really upset folks who book and after they board the train find out there isn't a dinner?
Maybe I missed it, but they should be telling those who book this reduced service train that it is indeed without a dinner.
neroden
Engineer
No, to put it simply. The Cafe car doesn't stock enough food. They run out of the sandwiches way early.
neroden
Engineer
Watch out for when they run out of sandwiches & pizzas somewhere around Savannah, or maybe Jacksonville. You will not be a happy camper then.I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day.
neroden
Engineer
Geez. Amtrak is going to hemmorhage money at those rates. Watch for the sleepers to be removed from the Star and assigned to higher-profit trains ASAP.
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Flexible coach fares are usually high in the first place - because they're "flexible".
This presents a bit of a mess. I suspect that Amtrak will probably end up re-pricing those rooms up a bit (not much, but a bit), though there's probably an element of pricing things low to start with due to uncertainty on how this will play.
neroden
Engineer
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