Silver Star sleeper update

[neroden]

Too bad Amtrak couldn't possibly invest into an option with a beefed up cafe car. If we have diner-lite, maybe the Star should be cafe-heavy.

Now there's a good idea. But where are you gonna store the food? Maybe attach some kind of "diner car" with additional refrigerators and stuff?

 

[Anderson]

Edit: I have to seriously wonder what would happen if Amtrak pulled this on the CONO and Ed Ellis threw the doors open on his diner to Amtrak's passengers (albeit on a for-pay basis).

That would be almost like the return of the Harvey House model on Santa Fe, no?

Now *this* is a business model I would support. It would work for both companies and for the passengers.

The problem is that I don't see Amtrak attempting to solicit such an effort. Thinking about this on the Silvers, a competent model would be for Amtrak to work out an agreement with someone (IP works here, but it need not be them by necessity) to run a diner. Let them stick however many sleepers on they want (within reason) at a reduced haulage rate in exchange, with only an agreement not to compete directly against Amtrak in terms of relative prices (that is to say, not undercutting Amtrak's low bucket). I think something like that could work...Amtrak would basically provide "sleeper" class while the third party would provide "sleeper plus".

 

[PupfosterG]

The concept of Iowa Pacific providing dining car service is thinking outside the box, but Amtrak axing diner and contracting food service out might violate OBS union rules? Thoughts?

 

[neroden]

I may have a special perspective on this, since I am currently forced to eat all my meals except breakfast in the cafe car.

1 -- The cafe cars *routinely* run out of stock *well* before the last meal period is over. If this continues to happen, this will be a completely disastrous experiment.

2 -- The cafe cars have nothing suitable for breakfast.

Since neither of these problems have been addressed, this experiment on the Star is bound to be a customer service disaster.

If Amtrak could guarantee that they wouldn't run out of hot dogs in the cafe cars, I might think differently!

 

[Paulus]

So I just took a look at a random date in July (the 24th) and the roomate on 91 from WAS to ORL is only $7 more than the flexible coach fare.

Geez. Amtrak is going to hemmorhage money at those rates. Watch for the sleepers to be removed from the Star and assigned to higher-profit trains ASAP.

That's about in line with the typical F&B transfer, so no actual revenue loss.

 

[jis]

Edit: I have to seriously wonder what would happen if Amtrak pulled this on the CONO and Ed Ellis threw the doors open on his diner to Amtrak's passengers (albeit on a for-pay basis).

That would be almost like the return of the Harvey House model on Santa Fe, no?

Now *this* is a business model I would support. It would work for both companies and for the passengers.

Maybe Amtrak should spin off its F&B services as an independent company or just contract it out including staffing, which basically amounts to the Harvey house model. One things that gravitates against that is the interesting set of Union issues this would raise. That would be one reason and probably a primary reason why the Harvey House model would not come to pass at Amtrak and most likely Amtrak passengers will not be allowed to use a Diner run by IP until the Union issues are ironed out. This would admittedly be kind of odd, since passengers can always bring their own pantry along with them ion the train, but they would be prevented from obtaining food on the train from a non-Amtrak source. I admittedly do not know what the stipulations in the Union cotnracts are, but I just suspect that it is probably quite restrictive, since I suspect that the primary goal of such contracts have nothing to do with preserving the interest of passengers or providing good service.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Too bad Amtrak couldn't possibly invest into an option with a beefed up cafe car. If we have diner-lite, maybe the Star should be cafe-heavy.

Now there's a good idea. But where are you gonna store the food? Maybe attach some kind of "diner car" with additional refrigerators and stuff?

I had mentioned in an earlier thread about running out of supplies perhaps a large Fridge/Freezer rig can be installed in the new Viewliner Bags to carry additional supplies. Those Bags are never going to be so packed full there will not be room for these; of course that will then require the Bags be oriented with the Food Storage end adjoining the next car. But now you can "tanker" enough supplies to make it end to end with Pizzas, Sandwiches and Cold Beer to spare

 

[jis]

I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day.

Watch out for when they run out of sandwiches & pizzas somewhere around Savannah, or maybe Jacksonville. You will not be a happy camper then.

On Amtrak that is expected and par for the course, and such things do not bother me too much. I have contingency options for such expected outages.

I am just happy to get the cheap sleeper back. As you might be able to tell, I personally don't really care a heck of a lot specifically for the Diner experience. If it is there, fine, I will use it, specially if I have already been forced to pay for it. But if it is not there so be it.

 

[PRR 60]

I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day. I will use the money saved to have some good food in DC and then some.

And that is a perfect example of why this trial may well work. Full dining service is an expensive operation (especially for Amtrak), and the service crew takes up revenue space in the sleepers. Not only are costs lowered by having a smaller staff, the roomettes that would have been occupied by the dining car staff are now open for sale. I hate to see it go this way, but for $300, I'd rough it and buy a sandwich, burger or Amdog. It's not like Amtrak meals are memorable dining experiences. Now, if the difference was $300 for a true first class experience, then maybe, but not for Amtrak sleeper.

 

[Guest]

Watch out for when they run out of sandwiches & pizzas somewhere around Savannah, or maybe Jacksonville. You will not be a happy camper then.

How is Amtrak going to keep feeding Sleeper Class passengers, when the Star is 6 hours late? 12 hours late? 24+ hours late (been there, and the diner car did indeed keep feeding us)?

Or will it degrade to the same as Coach.... we wish you good luck!

 

[Guest]

I just rebooked my trip from Orlando to Washington DC for the AU gathering changing over from the Meteor to the Star saving over $300 in the process. At least I am a happy camper. I can put up with burgers, little pizzas and Amspecialty sandwiches for a day. I will use the money saved to have some good food in DC and then some.

Did I not read the press release correctly? I thought the savings was (a mere) $65?

Yea, if its a flat $300, then this might work.

I wonder if we need to set up a website for linking Pizza-to-Star enroute deliveries? "I need 27 pizzas to go"

 

[jis]

The saving on a round trip was about $350. Of course YMMV since it also depends on which bucket the two trains are in at the point you do the comparison.

How is Amtrak going to keep feeding Sleeper Class passengers, when the Star is 6 hours late? 12 hours late? 24+ hours late (been there, and the diner car did indeed keep feeding us)?

Or will it degrade to the same as Coach.... we wish you good luck!

They will not keep feeding the Sleeper passengers since the food is not included in the ticket. The Sleeper passengers like Coach passengers will get whatever is in the Cafe. For delayed trains they will use the same techniques that they use at present, which is either emergency packs or order from KFC en route or whatever.

 

[jccpbc]

I have reservations on Silver Star roomette in September and just got an email from Amtrak advising that they are running a test from July 1 through Jan 31, 2016 eliminating the diner car. Sleeping passengers can opt to buy food in the Café/Lounge car. They have adjusted fare on the rooms accordingly. I just checked the website and the roomette I paid $181 for is now $150. May be a different bucket rate than what I have I know and they offered me to call them and adjust my rate if I still want to travel or give a full refund. I will call and see what my rate will be but personally I do not like this option and do not plan on taking this trip. Hopefully this will let them know what I think of this option. Dining cars should not be removed.

 

[niemi24s]

I have reservations on Silver Star roomette in September and. . . I just checked the website and the roomette I paid $181 for is now $150.

I would advise you to check every few days and see what the fare does. With more than 5 months to go there's a chance the fare may change. But in my experience, there's no way to tell whether it will increase or decrease - or if it does when it will change.

 

[JoeBas]

Here's $31, and feed yourself with it (if you can).

 

[NE933]

...It's not like Amtrak meals are memorable dining experiences. .., but not for Amtrak sleeper.

I must chime in here. Except for the excessive bounce and jolt of the aging Heritage Dining car fleet, most of the meals I've had on Amtrak were very good, and memorable. I wish the Corelle plates would return, yes, but the food and service I have received over 33 years resulted in perhaps only a handful of mildly subpar to bad experiences. Now there are those that will feel that my words reflect a biased love of Amtrak, and those who know me will remember this: it does not have to be a five star ball and gown operation to be excellent. I expect nutritious food to be cooked well and served as nicely as possible on clean dishes with clean utensils. The chef and wait staff are to serve, but, not in slave-like servitude - - there is a difference. There are limitations in Amtrak's operations that must be accommodated: namely, only 48 person capacity in the single level fleet. Enjoy your food from start to finish, but then get up and leave to the lounge, coach, or sleeping room, since in many ways the Dining Car does have a conveyor belt type function of ensuring a train of hundreds of passengers get fed: no easy task. Small dissatisfactions shall be overlooked in the greater scheme of things, I mean, really. But there is nothing like a meal on a train of a national railroad with friends and family. Forget the velvety Phoebe Snows and 20th Century Limiteds; Amtrak can improve and when they do, will be the best thing on rails for today's generation.

 

[Palmland]

If Amtrak is going to make this change, why not improve the offerings in the cafe car? Catered airplane food can be quite good. And why not have the SCA deliver it to your room, as they did for us on the Portland section of the EB. Much rather eat there than in that miserable cafe/lounge. I could handle a boxed, but high quality, meal with a glass of wine in a cozy roomette. Perhaps Amtrak wants this to fail.

 

[Ken]

Here is the offical PR from Amtrak.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/68/104/Amtrak-Lower-Sleeping-Car-Fares-to-Florida-ATK-15-022.pdf

Ken

 

[MrFSS]

 

[neroden]

The saving on a round trip was about $350. Of course YMMV since it also depends on which bucket the two trains are in at the point you do the comparison.

Unfortunately for Amtrak, it looks like the actual reduction in bucket prices was a lot less than that. It seems that people are switching from the Star to the Meteor, shoving the Meteor into high buckets and dropping the Star into low buckets....
I'm not set on the "full dining car experience" either, but this is totally the wrong way to go about changing things. The *right* way involves upgrading the cafe experience until most people find it acceptable, which it isn't at the moment. Or trying something genuinely different in the dining car. Fast-food-style service with fresh omelettes and properly grilled hot dogs would be great as far as I am concerned. Keep the chefs on staff, drop the waiters, you'd be in profit quite quickly.

 

[Ryan]

Now how will this play out with AGR points? Will sleeper rooms on this train use fewer points because no meals are served?

I have reached out and asked that exact question. I'll post when I hear something.

No change to AGR awards.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Looks like the Meteor will be the AGR Award train of choice for trips to/from Florida!

 

[AZ]

I say booooo. Much as the current dining car experience needs to be improved to be what I would consider suitable for passengers paying first class fare, it still beats cafe car food by a mile. I get that running dining cars is very expensive...but what I don't understand is why catered food seems to be the last thing they will consider- if a 777 flying across the Pacific can dish out 2-3 meals and drinks to 300 people including 60-70 first class, then you can do it too, Amtrak.

 

[me_little_me]

The concept of Iowa Pacific providing dining car service is thinking outside the box, but Amtrak axing diner and contracting food service out might violate OBS union rules? Thoughts?

You hit the nail on the head. The union is not going to stand by and watch Amtrak take away their jobs and outsource them. It's one thing to cut back on service but another to outsource them to a private company. The unions will put pressure on their favorite congressmen. Now the left will hate Amtrak as much as the right. Sheesh!

 

[DryCreek]

I'm one of the first to book a slumbercoach this summer. I'll let you know how it goes

Ahh, the old "everything that's old is new again" business model. How did it work in the early 90's with the dedicated Slumbercoach cars? I wouldn't know where to find the data on that, but I suspect that since it didn't survive it must have fallen out of favor?

There was an old video from the 90's showing the different classes of travel. Some young woman and her son go coast to coast courtesy of Grandpa