Silver Star sleeper update

[CHamilton]

—Following concerned statements made by the passenger community following the suspension of the ability to book sleeper reservations on the Silver Star, Amtrak confirmed to NARP that it will not be removing sleepers from the service.

Amtrak will, however, be testing a new food service; an official announcement on the details of this change is coming early next week. The railroad will start taking reservations for sleepers again by next week.

NARP Hotline #906

 

[Anderson]

This is what I was told in confidence the other day (but couldn't post since confidence is confidence). I don't think anyone knew if NARP was going to roll an announcement out today or if it would be stuck until Monday.

 

[peconicstation]

Glad to hear there will be an announcement, but why all the uneeded drama, just announce it already.

It will be interesting to see just what this "new" food service option will be, OR will it just be a rehash of what has been tried already.

I say this in part of there was a time when the Meteor and Star were changed to a "buffet style" diner, and another, where is an effort to cut costs,

the full service diner was only available south of D.C.

Stay tuned................

Ken

 

[Anderson]

Glad to hear there will be an announcement, but why all the uneeded drama, just announce it already.

It will be interesting to see just what this "new" food service option will be, OR will it just be a rehash of what has been tried already.

I say this in part of there was a time when the Meteor and Star were changed to a "buffet style" diner, and another, where is an effort to cut costs,

the full service diner was only available south of D.C.

Stay tuned................

Ken

Well, I think the "south of DC" situation might have coincided with a different schedule for the Meteor (particularly southbound). IIRC the train used to leave NYP sometime after 1900, which would have meant that trimming 6-8 hours of crew time by basing them in DC instead of New York would have made at least some sense (you'd only have had time for at most a single dinner seating).

As to the drama...my read on this is that Amtrak has been trying to figure out how to do this without completely blowing up their customer base in the process. Ultimately on some level, they get to call the shots on this (however well they might be doing so is something of a take-home exercise for all involved).

For what it's worth, this is far from the only time I've been unable to discuss information until it was made public...and I'm not the only one on the board who has been in this position over the years. Most of us who have been involved in passenger rail advocacy have come into information that we haven't been able to talk about publicly because of an information embargo of some sort (and/or until someone else lets it leak, which lets us off the hook). Witness the way part of this story came out initially: A columnist had to wait to be told the story a second time before he could discuss it because he was told privately to begin with.

 

[NE933]

There are some people who feel it is not our right or privilege to know such information until some almighty figurehead, who ironically is paid by our fares and taxes, gets to decide when. And to be fair, some news must be withheld to avoid a panic or, if it involves contract negotiations, or bidding for a procurement, in which public knowledge simply blows the cover off what the other guy is holding at the poker table. But this is a case in which much heartache could have simply been avoided. Either say the whole damn thing or don't say anything at all.

 

[Anderson]

There are some people who feel it is not our right or privilege to know such information until some almighty figurehead, who ironically is paid by our fares and taxes, gets to decide when. And to be fair, some news must be withheld to avoid a panic or, if it involves contract negotiations, or bidding for a procurement, in which public knowledge simply blows the cover off what the other guy is holding at the poker table. But this is a case in which much heartache could have simply been avoided. Either say the whole damn thing or don't say anything at all.

Well, I think if Amtrak had gotten their way nobody would have said anything until Monday (and that includes stuff from the last few weeks). Clearly that did not happen. As I understand it, NARP more or less told them "We're getting hammered with questions and concerns so you really need to come up with an announcement".

The problem is that I don't think Amtrak knew what they were going to announce and were trying to work that out...but they wanted to minimize the number of people who would be stuck with a product they didn't order (witness the situation with the wine and cheese on the Starlight, where they got stuck bringing it back on several trips because I think they had a tour operator ready to sue or something like that). The multi-week suspension of sleeper sales didn't help at all with this objective (which, with all of Arrows goofs over the years, would probably have just gone down to "Arrow is stupid" in a vacuum), but the big thing was the crew talking up what was about to happen which got everything spinning up.

 

[fulham]

Again I will bring you what I think is going on...

* The current Heritage diner fleet is getting very old.

* Maintenance work needs to be performed on some of the diners this summer.

* It makes no sense to spend money on these cars with the new VII diners around the corner.

* Amtrak decided the Silver Star made the most sense, of all the long-distance eastern trains, to give up their diners so the LSL, Meteor and Crescent would have available diners.

* There are 25 VII diners on order.

* If Amtrak only decides to equip the LSL, Meteor and Crescent with the new diners, that leaves 11 in service and 14 for "protection".

* Once the new diners have been delivered, I predict the Silver Star will get its diner back.

* Will the Cardinal get some of the new diners...I doubt so given that it would greatly increase the cost of one of Amtrak's worst performing LD trains.

Bottom line...we are getting worked up over a decision that makes sense given Amtrak's current focus on cost reduction.

 

[jis]

**Like**

 

[Guest]

Glad to hear there will be an announcement, but why all the uneeded drama, just announce it already.

+1

It will be interesting to see just what this "new" food service option will be, OR will it just be a rehash of what has been tried already.

I say this in part of there was a time when the Meteor and Star were changed to a "buffet style" diner, and another, where is an effort to cut costs,

the full service diner was only available south of D.C.

My thoughts are going more toward each "first class" sleeper passenger will be handed a brown paper bag by the attendant, containing a peanut butter sandwich, an apple, and a juice box.

 

[Guest]

Amtrak will, however, be testing a new food service; an official announcement on the details of this change is coming early next week. The railroad will start taking reservations for sleepers again by next week.

So, we as passengers will get to vote with our dollars for meal plan "A" or meal plan "B", based on our booking on the Star or booking on the Meteor?

 

[Train2104]

I hope the public announcement clearly says "this is an effort towards achieving the reduction in food service costs mandated by Congress", so that the public can see how insane the micromanaging is.

 

[willem]

But this is a case in which much heartache could have simply been avoided. Either say the whole damn thing or don't say anything at all.

As Anderson implied, Amtrak tried to do it as suggested. The problem was that part of not saying anything at all would have meant continuing to offer a product that was expected not to be available. The solution was to say as little as possible, by withdrawing from offer the product that might not be available, without comment. An observant consumer noted and questioned the change, and Amtrak continued with the not saying anything at all.

It looks to me like Amtrak did the best it could to follow the quoted advice. I would rather that ideas spring fully developed, but that's not the way it happens. I have an email from a Chief at my employer stating a temporary policy, with the note that final policy is coming. The email is three years old. Amtrak will do better than my employer because next summer will come in less than three years.

 

[Palmetto]

Glad to hear there will be an announcement, but why all the uneeded drama, just announce it already.

+1

It will be interesting to see just what this "new" food service option will be, OR will it just be a rehash of what has been tried already.

I say this in part of there was a time when the Meteor and Star were changed to a "buffet style" diner, and another, where is an effort to cut costs,

the full service diner was only available south of D.C.

My thoughts are going more toward each "first class" sleeper passenger will be handed a brown paper bag by the attendant, containing a peanut butter sandwich, an apple, and a juice box.

Amtrak hasn't used the phrase "first class" for quite some time relative to long distance services. And rightfully so, I think.

 

[Guest]

Amtrak hasn't used the phrase "first class" for quite some time relative to long distance services. And rightfully so, I think.

That's why the phrase was put in quotes.

Though, if sleepers are not first, name a higher class of passengers, on LD trains.

 

[Rail Freak]

"Rail Freak"

 

[Ryan]

Again I will bring you what I think is going on...

* The current Heritage diner fleet is getting very old.

* Maintenance work needs to be performed on some of the diners this summer.

* It makes no sense to spend money on these cars with the new VII diners around the corner.

* Amtrak decided the Silver Star made the most sense, of all the long-distance eastern trains, to give up their diners so the LSL, Meteor and Crescent would have available diners.

* There are 25 VII diners on order.

* If Amtrak only decides to equip the LSL, Meteor and Crescent with the new diners, that leaves 11 in service and 14 for "protection".

* Once the new diners have been delivered, I predict the Silver Star will get its diner back.

* Will the Cardinal get some of the new diners...I doubt so given that it would greatly increase the cost of one of Amtrak's worst performing LD trains.

Bottom line...we are getting worked up over a decision that makes sense given Amtrak's current focus on cost reduction.

This all sounds very reasonable. Anyone know about the supposed maintenance? Inspections coming due?

 

[neroden]

Let's hope that the "no dining car" experiment is an abject failure, with massive drops in revenue on the Star. Then Amtrak can go back to Mica and say "See, we tried it your way, now let's do the right thing and upgrade dining quality."

Degrading dining service causes nothing but damage... but the question is whether it will cause *minor* damage (in which case Amtrak may continue on this stupid and ill-advised path) or *major* damage (in which case Amtrak will backtrack and reverse course). Here's hoping for major damage.

I will point out again that I am OK with alternative ideas for delivery of quality dining service. So far, Amtrak has not proposed any -- they have simply proposed quality cuts.

 

[R30A]

Honestly, I think Amtrak is intending for this to fail. They are setting up their worst peforming daily LDSL train to be missing the diner, which can be measured against the best performing LDSL train which will have a diner, which is coincidentally one which has a better schedule, and a higher capacity.

"Look: We ran the experiment! The train without the dining car had substantially lower ridership and worse cost recovery than the train with the dining car!"

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

With all the money being invested in NEW and EXPENSIVE Viewliner 2 Diners, Amtrak has no intention of wanting to eliminate Dining Car Service. Trust common sense on this one.

 

[Shanghai]

I was on the southbound Silver Meteor yesterday. My SCA told me that the dining car will be removed

and the Café Car service will be the provider of food service for the entire train. I realize that the existing

dining cars are old, but they work fine from my perspective. I hope we do not have to stand in line to get

our food on 26+ hour ride!!

 

[R30A]

I was on 98 yesterday too! Which sleeper were you in?

 

[Anderson]

Common sense says that Amtrak is not going to simply not use the new diners. I agree. I can also agree with the idea of needing to pull a few diners from service for maintenance. Why this wasn't held off until post-July is a good question, but I'm going to blame the cycle of bidding for jobs (IIRC it's a six-month period you bid for) and simply putting a crew out for half a period wouldn't fly because you'd end up with no diner but still paying some of them something and/or staff in an uproar about having a job but no work).

I'd be up for trialing the diner-club option proposed by Amtrak (where food service is provided by just the diner and the cafe is cut). Honestly, I'd also like to see Amtrak put a bit of effort in on the alcohol front (one thing VIA does with great effect is nudge folks to buy quite a bit of booze on the Canadian; I would think that similar efforts would have some effect on the Builder, Zephyr, and some other trains).

 

[DooBdoo]

MACHINES! VENDING MACHINES!

Put in a $5.00 bill and get an ice cold egg salad sandwich!

I wonder if they will reduce the price of the "no diner" tickets????

HA!

 

[Ryan]

I'll bet you they do.

 

[Seaboard92]

I know none of us want to go back to the SP Automats. But my fiancées college has some really good vending machines for products like ice cream and frozen food. Might be good if a microwave is provided.