rusty spike
OBS Chief
My apologies....
sometimes its hard to figure out where people are coming from on this forum. Keep the smiley faces workin'. :hi:
Sleeper tipping
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sometimes its hard to figure out where people are coming from on this forum. Keep the smiley faces workin'. :hi:
roomette
Lead Service Attendant
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You speak for Amtrak employees now? Is that what you do?
D.P. Roberts
Conductor
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G
grandma from iowa
Guest
We traveled CZ eastbound in early January. The first evening, we went to dinner and left our bedroom door open. When we returned, our beds had been made up, as we expected. The next morning, we did the same when we went to breakfast. When we returned, our beds had not been made up. My husband made up the beds, and when evening came around, he had to make them ready for sleeping. We were in the handicapped room on the lower level and the bathrooms were not kept stocked with paper/towels. I don't remember where they boarded, but a family of four were booked into the family room. It was not ready for them, and even though they were not speaking English, it was apparent that they were unhappy. I did not tip this car attendant..I always tip..but she did almost nothing for us. She didn't even have coffee ready in the morning. It was well after six, and the pot was cold. Perhaps we have been spoiled by other attendants that went above and beyond in providing service. I'm still debating about calling customer service about this attendant. Amtrak customers deserve better!
roomette
Lead Service Attendant
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Maybe she just had a headache and was exhausted from all the long hours and wishes she was a restaurant waiter working fewer hours, going home every night, had a bus boy to clear tables, didn't have a rocking & rolling floor, wasn't safety trained on what to do if the restaurant crashes, and doesn't work an 15 hour day.
Who could blame her?
Who could blame her?
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
And as others have said here, there is a history to the custom of tipping SCAs here in the US. Just because some guidebook doesn't mention tipping SCAs, that is no basis for not following this practice. Guidebooks only touch the surface of visiting other countries and leave out more than they include.
In fact, if you really want to get to know a country, avoid the places they suggest, as those places are usually overrun with tourists. For just one example here on my home turf, if you want to get to know Washingtonians, don't hang out on the National Mall. And guidebooks certainly don't provide the finer points to riding Metro. If I had a penny for every tourist who I've helped on Metro, while they clenched their guidebooks, I'd might very well be as rich as white rabbit seems to think I am!
white rabbitt
Lead Service Attendant
lol lol lol well said mr crockett :giggle: :giggle: :giggle:
In fact, if you really want to get to know a country, avoid the places they suggest, as those places are usually overrun with tourists. For just one example here on my home turf, if you want to get to know Washingtonians, don't hang out on the National Mall. And guidebooks certainly don't provide the finer points to riding Metro. If I had a penny for every tourist who I've helped on Metro, while they clenched their guidebooks, I'd might very well be as rich as white rabbit seems to think I am!
If you wore a red cap whilest providing such information, you COULD BE that rich!For just one example here on my home turf, if you want to get to know Washingtonians, don't hang out on the National Mall. And guidebooks certainly don't provide the finer points to riding Metro. If I had a penny for every tourist who I've helped on Metro, while they clenched their guidebooks, I'd might very well be as rich as white rabbit seems to think I am!
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LOL!!
I'm suspecting that those who suggest that being a restaurant server is an easy job have never worked as a restaurant server. Many servers at places like Applebees work double shifts - 10am to midnight. In most mass-market chains the servers help clean tables, and also are responsible for cleaning the restrooms and even sweeping the floors after closing. Many are kids who are trying to earn a few dollars while working around college class schedules. However, they do get paid $2.50 an hour for their efforts. All in all, it's a pretty nasty job.
A sleeping car attendant is also a hard job, but those who do it well seem to enjoy the job itself, the travel, and the work schedule. An attendant I had on the Zephyr loved the job (and it showed). He said the eight days off between runs was like a week's vacation every two weeks. Yes, they can work high-hour weeks, but the schedules are set to have the overall work hours at about 160 per month - same as a 40 hour week.
The attendants are very well compensated for the nature of the job with both salary and benefits . I tip sleeping car attendants becuase it is customary and because a good one can make a trip all that more enjoyable. Over the years I've had one truly lousy attendant, and I even tipped her (she had been just laid off from a financial job and was working at Amtrak to make ends meet).
I think the sleeping car attendants should be tipped along with the dining car servers, but I have no real issue with those who choose not to tip. It is not like stiffing a $2.50/hour employee who is primairily working for tips. Unlike a restaurant, tipping on Amtrak is more of a choice than a requirement.
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Anyone have any idea how much a SCA or Dining Car Staff person makes in tips on average?
Or, perhaps, another way to ask it is, What percentage of their take home pay is in cash gratuities?
Something else that just came to mind is with regards to taxes. Does Amtrak have an official form that the SCA and SAs are required to declare their tips on for taxes? In restaurants, all tips are to be declared. We know from practice that generally only the tips that make up minimum wage are declared or else a blanket assumption is made based on revenue per pay period. Since neither of these apply to SCAs or SAs, me thinks all these tips are completely bypassing Uncle Sam.
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henryj
Conductor
And gets paid $2 an hour with few tips with that attitude instead of her $40 an hour union wage job with Amtrak and plenty of time off between trips. These people need to do their jobs or find other jobs away from trains. I read entirely too many complaints on here about these surely do-nothings feeding at the Amtrak trough.
TimePeace
Disillusioned.
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- 1,166
Adding one more to the list though, right?
E
ElmerGlue
Guest
Ths debate is really a symptom of a wider problem.
Egalitarian societies, e.g. Japan, Europe, promote policies that lead to a reasonable minimum standard of living for everyone. In the US, income inequality is high and there is opposition to increasing the minimum wage, providing basic health care for everyone, etc. The idea is that wealth should be redistributed only by individual choice---if you see someone dying due to lack of health care, you can roll down your tinted glass window and toss some bills at them.
So it's really a question of what kind of society you want to live in---a third-world country with extremes of poverty and wealth alleviated by charity (including tipping), or one where there is enough human dignity that tipping is not necessary and not appreciated.
Don't fool yourself that by taking a pro-tipping position you are showing yourself to be nice, generous, even liberal. In fact it is a position that requires the existence of people lower than you who are sufficiently debased that they will take the tip.
Egalitarian societies, e.g. Japan, Europe, promote policies that lead to a reasonable minimum standard of living for everyone. In the US, income inequality is high and there is opposition to increasing the minimum wage, providing basic health care for everyone, etc. The idea is that wealth should be redistributed only by individual choice---if you see someone dying due to lack of health care, you can roll down your tinted glass window and toss some bills at them.
So it's really a question of what kind of society you want to live in---a third-world country with extremes of poverty and wealth alleviated by charity (including tipping), or one where there is enough human dignity that tipping is not necessary and not appreciated.
Don't fool yourself that by taking a pro-tipping position you are showing yourself to be nice, generous, even liberal. In fact it is a position that requires the existence of people lower than you who are sufficiently debased that they will take the tip.
D.P. Roberts
Conductor
True, a guidebook can't cover everything. Then again, no traveler can know EVERYTHING about a country before he/she gets there, or be expected to follow everything as well as the locals. For people (like the poster I was responding to) who are overwhelmed by American tipping, I still think it's a good guideline. Rather than be overwhelmed by all the opportunities to tip & trying to figure out how much, start with the basics - food service, taxicabs, and hotel service.
Those three make it easy to tip. Restaurants (along with hair salons and other businesses that accept credit cards) leave a line on your bill on which you can write your tip amount. Taxis are generally paid cash when you pay the driver. Hotel staff generally stand discreetly nearby after helping you.
On the other hand, it's not always easy to tip Amtrak staff. I always mean to leave the car attendant a tip when I disembark, but the attendant often can't be found. He or she is probably off helping another passenger somewhere. Considering that a train has to keep moving, it's not like you always have a lot of time to track that person down. So, I really don't let it bother me if I miss the SCA - I know my tip wasn't a big percentage of his/her salary anyway.
However, I WOULD feel bad if I forgot a tip in a restaurant. I think it's important for people traveling in the US to know which tips are really important, and which are "optional". The fact that there's no agreement (even here in this thread on a train forum) about when/how much to tip an Amtrak attendant shows that it's not very clear. However, I think we'd all agree unanimously that a restaurant server who does a great job ought to get a tip.
Ryan
Court Jester
white rabbitt
Lead Service Attendant
ryan if u are in a tipping mood go to paypal and u can give me a tip :giggle: :giggle: :hi: any amount gladly accepted lol lol
NAVYBLUE
Lead Service Attendant
MrFSS,
I can only give you (1) specfic example but not a general answer. $12,000/year. Whilst on a LD train trip in 2011 east of the Mississippi, I befriended a young SCA as he was from a town about (3) hours from where I retired from in Pennsylvania. I and wife where traveling east from Las Vegas for Christmas. As we talked about ourselves and our careers (I was retired) he mentioned he wanted to get married in the future but wanted to have a solid financial plan in place before he got married. How quaint for this instant gratification era we seem to be living in presently.
I told him a little about some of my investments and he indicated he wanted to invest some of his earnings in Amtrak's 401k but also wanted to buy some rental apartments in PHL. I told him I would need to know his gross income before tips as you can't always count on a specific tip amount. I also told him the financial advice I would give him is the same advice I would give my son who it worked out was making about the same as his gross income.
He said in 2010 his gross income was $60,000+ and about $12,000 in tips. This kid was a fireball and was pretty much working non stop and only had (5) years service in AMTRAK and was riding anything he could get on in the Northeast/Midwest as a LD SCA.
Anyways as this was December 2011 he confided that he estimated he will make $90,000 (pay plus tips) for the 2011 calendar. So there you go, understanding this kid was single, working pretty much non stop with 60-80 hr weeks and holidays.
By the by I told him if he was my son, I would tell him to invest in REITs that specialize in malls anchored by at least (2) big box stores and let them manage tenants vice you doing it as building owner.
This kid was an incredible all around SCA and has been my gold standard to determine which SCA gets a tip or not. I don't believe in tipping because you can breathe and make/unmake the bed twice a day. A hotel maid makes 2-3 times more beds per day than does a SCA. I can do that myself. Fortunately out of (8) SCAs in (2) years, only (2) did nothing other than breathe and make the beds. One I had to go to the diner constantly to pry him away from his friends to get anything done.
Everyone brings their own value system to the train world and your tipping philosphy is no better or worse than someone elses. That's why you will NEVER see me say what amount I tip or suggest to others what amount you should tip.
The kid did me a solid by offering to drop us(me, wife and another BWI bound passenger) off at BWI even though we where checked through (plus baggage) to BAL and we were all going to BWI to pick up rental cars. We were 8 1/2 hrs late coming into WAS so he thought it was safer to get us off at BWI at 12:30 AM vice the cesspool called Baltimore. This was of course coordinated with the Conductor. It also avoided them stopping at BAL.
That being said MrFSS, I don't know what others get as far as tips on a yearly basis but I would estimate a good SCA pulls $4,000-$7,000/year in tips.
NAVYBLUE
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
Go back and read the posts. He simply asked when he should tip. You took it upon yourself to make the judgement call that he was overwhelmed and told him not to tip. Bad advice, IMHO.
Funny, I've never had a problem giving money to an SCA. I simply fold it up and shake their hand, passing the tip to them in the process. Pretty simple. And if you want to make sure you tip them, do it a stop or two before your stop. Now IF the SCA is MIA, I can see that being a problem, but good SCAs are easy to find. Try their room, or hit the call button. Someone who finds it hard to tip a good SCA is looking for an excuse to not tip, IMHO.
This sure sounds like an excuse that you tell yourself for stiffing a good SCA. See my response directly above. It is also nice to know ythat you look at your SCAs tax return.
Another judgement call you are taking upon yourself to make.
Obviously you've never worked as a server. People come up with lame excuses to not tip, or leave poor tips more than you would think. The worst are the ones who make a public scene so as to make it seem it is not their fault, often blaming the server for somthing that even if it was true, would have been a problem in the kitchen. A lot of folks don't even tip 15%. But I can tell you this, regulars who tip well will get better service.
It is easy to stiff an SCA as you will likely never see them again if you don't ride often. Justify all you want, but don't kid yourself an excuse is just that.
daveyb99
OBS Chief
One more viewpoint:
I generally have to find something above and beyond to provide a sleeper gratuity. Checking by once during they day, putting the bed down at night and up in the morning ... that will get you nothing as it is basic service. What "gratuity" was earned by doing the basics.
As for the Diner? A couple of bucks -maybe- for good serivce. But be grumpy at me, at my table, at others in the Diner, or show a who cares type attitude ... and you get nothing. That does present a problem on longer travel, so I might front load the gratuity and nothing later.
I generally have to find something above and beyond to provide a sleeper gratuity. Checking by once during they day, putting the bed down at night and up in the morning ... that will get you nothing as it is basic service. What "gratuity" was earned by doing the basics.
As for the Diner? A couple of bucks -maybe- for good serivce. But be grumpy at me, at my table, at others in the Diner, or show a who cares type attitude ... and you get nothing. That does present a problem on longer travel, so I might front load the gratuity and nothing later.
My husband asked a frequent traveler in our sleeping car about the appropriate gratuity for an attendant who provided good service. He tipped $30 for two nights. We did have lunch in our room one day because the dining car was packed, and he brought us bevarages and ice a few times.
D.P. Roberts
Conductor
Here's the quote I was responding to:
I said he was "overwhelmed", in his words he's "uncomfortable". I still think take on the situation is acceptable.
As for the rest of your post - I don't need to see an SCA's tax return to know how much he or she is making. This thread (and others) have made it clear that Amtrak attendants make about $40,000-$60,000. And they're getting maybe an extra 10% per year in tips, if that.
As for your introspective into my mental states and the "excuses you're trying to tell yourself": the way Americans look at tips is different than the way pretty much everyone else in the world looks at tips. That's a simple fact. Personally, I prefer the non-American way. I think I made it clear that it's my preference. You can prefer something different if you want.
And you're right, I could track down the attendant, or leave my tip in the room, or whatever. I choose not to because I just don't think it's that important. You're free to feel it's important if you want to. I'm not making excuses, or trying to get out of anything, I just don't think it's that big a deal - to me or them.
As for my take on "the service industry": I know people make up lame excuses for not tipping servers. I don't, and I don't think that non-American tourists should do so either. I always tip at least 20% for everybody, regardless of their level of service. I do this because most of them are making less than minimum wage, and tips are the majority of their salary. This is simply not true for any Amtrak employee.
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For a meal served in your room, would you tip when the food is brought, when the empty plates are collected, or just let it determine your overall tip when leaving the train?
Are they generally willing and eager to bring the food to the room?
Are they generally willing and eager to bring the food to the room?
D.P. Roberts
Conductor
From my experience, they are NOT eager to bring food to your room. I have been on several trips where the SCA spent a lot of time bringing meals to the room. On one trip, almost half the car was taken up by one big group, and they had all their meals brought to their car. I saw our SCA more often in the dining car than in the sleeper! I asked her about it a couple of times (I'd prefer to eat in my sleeper, but I didn't know how much of an inconvenience it was). She was very polite about it, but as she explained how much time it took - numerous trips back and forth to the dining car (giving orders, going back to pick up the order, multiple trips for drinks, desserts, mistakes, silverware, forgotten condiments, etc.), it was clearly something they just don't have time to do.
Some SCAs don't do much. But for the good ones, their days are already FULL. Bringing meals to the sleeper takes time away from something else that they absolutely needed to do.
So, as much as I'd like to have a meal in my sleeper, I've never done it.
You are still presented with a bill to sign even as a sleeper passenger. That would be equivalent to getting the check. If he leaves the form with you, sign it, fold a couple of bills in it, and hand it back.
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