Southwest Chief News & Future Operations

[Chas]

"The Southwest Chief and [Colorado] Front Range Passenger Rail Commission has selected its first project director.

"Officials announced this week that they have selected Randy Grauberger to fill the role.

"Grauberger served as senior transportation planning manager at the engineering firm WSP and also was employed at the Colorado Department of Transportation for more than 28 years, serving in a number of planning positions, including as a branch manager in the Division of Transportation Development.

“'Front Range passenger rail service is vital for the future mobility of the state’s rapidly growing population,' Grauberger said."

Read the rest at the Pueblo Chieftain.

 

[jiml]

Tonight's 60 Minutes is not going to help the future of any train without PTC.

 

[cpotisch]

Tonight's 60 Minutes is not going to help the future of any train without PTC.

What do you mean?

 

[PRR 60]

What do you mean?

60 Minutes

 

[cpotisch]

60 Minutes

Thanks, couldn't find that earlier.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Apparently Mark James has no problem placing blind trust in his coworkers while at the same time having zero faith in the safety of the services they're employed to provide. I'd have a lot more respect for this man if he had blown the whistle before he was involved in a fatal crash. His demand to be employed by an industry he claims would harm or kill his daughter if given the chance doesn't pass the sanity test. Sounds like this man has twisted his brain into a pretzel of incomprehensible (but self-affirming) nonsense.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It's obvious that the guy is suffering, ( PTSD is real)but I agree with Chris and others that there's no credit due to anyone involved in this tragic situation.

The only blameless parties I can see in this situation is Amtrak and the poor souls aboard #91.

 

[fredmcain]

Well, group, I don't know what happened but either Anderson or the board or someone blinked.  It was reported in the latest NARP "Hotline" that Amtrak management is now releasing the $3 million match that they were reneging on last year.  That's gonna leverage money from the feds, the states (CO, KS, NM) and BNSF for the track improvements to go forward.  It is beginning to appear that this storm has blown over (for now).  But, why do we have to keep going through this every few years?  Amtrak has always been managed like a yo-yo.

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

[bretton88]

https://gazette.com/premium/money-s...cle_5f488762-fcfe-11e9-ac67-93d31a23642c.html

This has been discussed before. One of the options on the table during the height of the SWC crisis was to reroute the chief to Denver and bus La Junta to ABQ. I'll be really curious to see what the formal study comes up with. A SWC serving the front range would be significantly more useful to Kansas residents too.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

https://gazette.com/premium/money-s...cle_5f488762-fcfe-11e9-ac67-93d31a23642c.html

This has been discussed before. One of the options on the table during the height of the SWC crisis was to reroute the chief to Denver and bus La Junta to ABQ. I'll be really curious to see what the formal study comes up with. A SWC serving the front range would be significantly more useful to Kansas residents too.

The article appears to be behind a pay wall.

 

[bretton88]

The article appears to be behind a pay wall.

I can't find anything else to share, unfortunately. It was free clicking through the RPA's Facebook link. In summary, Colorado is seeking 20 million $ to study routing a branch of the SWC through Pueblo and Colorado Springs. My guess is it will probably use Denver as an endpoint, as that would be logical, though always subject to whatever costs would be needed to get over the Palmer divide. This would be an in depth study (not a feasibility one) that would give Colorado a report on what infrastructure would be required for such a routing and cost estimates.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Endpoint of Denver, meaning a CHI-DEN train, or a feeder train to connect thru cars to the SWC? Amtrak needs a LA-CHI train to continue in some form and I don’t count the SSL/TE. Either way same ole more money for a “study.”

 

[jis]

Endpoint of Denver, meaning a CHI-DEN train, or a feeder train to connect thru cars to the SWC? Amtrak needs a LA-CHI train to continue in some form and I don’t count the SSL/TE. Either way same ole more money for a “study.”

A section from SWC to serve Pueblo and possibly further North along the Front Range eventually. Most likely the split will happen at La Junta. This has been talked about before and arguable this possibility is one one of the things that Colorado fully on board to save the SWC.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

I think the bigger question is does this service need to be centered about the Southwest Chief or the California Zephyr (and just originate at Denver)? And question 2 is would they want the SWC connections to be more centered around service to the east of La Junta or west? Because obviously the schedules would change dramatically for those answers. If easterly is the main connection, could the train split at Newton and allow the SWC to head south through Wichita and on to the transcontinental main to allow much faster running times to LA? This would also facilitate passengers being able to go either direction from Newton as those trains arrive close together.

 

[jis]

Past experience shows that in general only the most minimal change is likely, if anything happens at all.

I suspect the Front Range train, if and when it happens, will be a Colorado funded train with possibly some through cars from the SWC. I also do not expect the section from SWC to get to Denver for quite a while yet. What could happen in short order is a connection to Pueblo from the SWC. Beyond that it starts getting more and more spectacularly expensive the further you try to go.

 

[Chatter163]

The article appears to be behind a pay wall.

I clicked on the link and immediately saw the article.

 

[bretton88]

Past experience shows that in general only the most minimal change is likely, if anything happens at all.

I suspect the Front Range train, if and when it happens, will be a Colorado funded train with possibly some through cars from the SWC. I also do not expect the section from SWC to get to Denver for quite a while yet. What could happen in short order is a connection to Pueblo from the SWC. Beyond that it starts getting more and more spectacularly expensive the further you try to go.

I suspect initial investigation must have been more promising than they thought, because now they're including Colorado Springs into the SWC through car.

 

[railiner]

Past experience shows that in general only the most minimal change is likely, if anything happens at all.

I suspect the Front Range train, if and when it happens, will be a Colorado funded train with possibly some through cars from the SWC. I also do not expect the section from SWC to get to Denver for quite a while yet. What could happen in short order is a connection to Pueblo from the SWC. Beyond that it starts getting more and more spectacularly expensive the further you try to go.

Agreed! And then there is the problem of getting into the DEN station, since they cut off the route to the SW. Trains would have to go 'around' the station, and come in/out from the NE end.

 

[jis]

Amtrak is already quite used to backing into Denver Union Station. The new thing will be backing out of it for the Southbound trip. [emoji57]

 

[dogbert617]

I think the bigger question is does this service need to be centered about the Southwest Chief or the California Zephyr (and just originate at Denver)? And question 2 is would they want the SWC connections to be more centered around service to the east of La Junta or west? Because obviously the schedules would change dramatically for those answers. If easterly is the main connection, could the train split at Newton and allow the SWC to head south through Wichita and on to the transcontinental main to allow much faster running times to LA? This would also facilitate passengers being able to go either direction from Newton as those trains arrive close together.

Honestly myself, I'd rather see the Southwest Chief keep its existing route, and to not reroute the western part of the train past Newton via Wichita and Amarillo myself. To me I'd prefer the Heartland Flyer be extended north to Newton, KS, and for a spur train(with thru cars that can be attached and detached from the SWC, like what occurs in Spokane, WA with both Empire Builder branches, San Antonio with the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle 3 days a week, etc) to be created that would run La Junta-Pueblo-Colorado Springs-Denver. If the state of Colorado wanted to run this train south to Trinidad, wouldn't bother me. It either should connect from La Junta or Trinidad, IMO. Though I have a gut feeling starting this spur train from La Junta would probably work better, since Amtrak already has been doing crew changes for many years at La Junta on the Southwest Chief train.

Also to the moderators, sorry I didn't realize that was a rule for this message board to not copy and paste articles behind a paywall. I just greatly hate them so very much myself, hence why I regularly do that on other sites like Reddit(as I share the major frustrations others greatly have with paywalls) myself. As that is a rule for this board to not copy and paste whole articles and to only post links to them, I will not do that again here myself.

 

[Palmetto]

Concerning Denver, trains [5/6] back into DUS so that the head end is in the lead for departure. With this new train--if it ever gets funded to go there--they can head in, then back out to the yard to wye the train if they wished. If they park it on one of the station tracks, then it too will have to back in so that the departure has the engine in the lead.

 

[jis]

Concerning Denver, trains [5/6] back into DUS so that the head end is in the lead for departure. With this new train--if it ever gets funded to go there--they can head in, then back out to the yard to wye the train if they wished. If they park it on one of the station tracks, then it too will have to back in so that the departure has the engine in the lead.

Given the way the tracks are laid out, a train arriving from the South into Denver US will have to back in and a train departing from Denver US to the South will have to back out. There is no way for a train coming from the South to pull in facing forward or a train departing to the South to pull out facing forward. Track connections to enable such do not exist at present. It is at least theoretically possible to shoehorn in a new connection, but it involves some work, and it is not at all clear that it is cost effective for just a train or two a day.

The other more attractive possibility is that there may be enough space to build a siding with a platform adjacent to but a bit skewed to the north along the LRT Union Station.

 

[Palmland]

Where were the urban planners when the Pepsi Center was built (and now other buildings) that obliterated the direct run through track the Rio Grande and Santa Fe used to head south from the station. The convoluted move they would now have to use adds time and increases probability of freight train interference. It could have been incorporated so easily into the Center’s construction and perhaps provided rail access to events there.

When the Santa Fe was running LaJunta to Denver it took about 4 hours for the 185 miles. Using the SWC schedule for connections it might be possible for a crew and engines to make a same day turn from LaJunta to Denver but probably need another set of equipment with the cleaning required. This is certainly a viable project. The hurdle will be UP/BNSF concurrence but with the decline in Powder River coal perhaps it could be done. While each railroad has mostly single track they operate it jointly so it is effectively a double track railroad to Pueblo. Pueblo union station is still in use but not sure about Colorado Springs. No doubt changes for ADA compliance will be needed.

 

[jis]

If they are able to shoehorn a platform adjacent to the LRT Union Station, that would mitigate most of the convoluted move thing. But truth be told, I have never seen anyone give that a serious consideration AFAICT.

 

[Charles785]

I don't know if this was mentioned much earlier in this thread but I'm wondering if this would be way to expedite service for now on the south portion of the Front Range to include Pueblo to Trinidad (with perhaps a stop at Walsenburg) by, not with a stub, but by actually routing the SW Chief from La Junta to Pueblo and then south. Would Amtrak agree to that?

Then whenever, or if, Colorado agreed to front range service, their sounthern-most point could be Pueblo.

As an occasional passenger on the SW Chief, and a fan of long distance travel, I certainly would have no objection to lengtheniing the route and my time on the train.