Talgo Trainsets to California

[DSS&A]

Hi,

According to announcements today, Talgo train sets consisting of 31 cars (possibly the two sets that were originally built for Wisconsin) will be leased to run somewhere on the LOSSAN Corridor between San Luis Obispo-LA-San Diego.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/California-panel-awards-390-million-in-transit-grants--49173

 

[jis]

This is very good news indeed. Conceivably they could be maintained at the established major maintenance facility run by Talgo in Seattle, with minor maintenance done in a new facility in Los Angeles.

Since it is a lease agreement that they are seeking, Talgo will continue to own the equipment and will probably be required by contract to provide the equipment for some number of days over a given period of time to specific commercial schedules. Then it will be upto Talgo as to how they are maintained and kept serviceable. I would doubt very much that either Amtrak or CalDOT will actually take on the responsibility for maintaining these sets.

Speaking of Talgo - India is running test with a Talgo set to validate its usability as the backbone of higher speed LD service connecting the four major metropolises with speed on the routes progressively increased in steps to 200kph (125mph), but starting with a modest increase to 150/160kph (100mph), thus dramatically reducing running times. They have already run a test between Delhi and Mumbai in a bit over 12 hours for the almost 900 miles. Current commercial schedules are a shade under 17 hours.

For an equivalent in the US, who would scoff at the possibility of New York to Chicago in 13 hours or so?

There may be a lesson there somewhere for the US specially given speed possibilities that arise with the across the board implementation of PTC.

 

[ScouseAndy]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/n-america/single-view/view/california-transport-grants-announced.html

Railway Gazette is reporting these will run between LA and SLO offering a 25 min reduction in travel time, also additional rolling stock and lineside improvements for the Coaster Services allowing 20 min frequency during peak times between San Diego & LA

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

Here's a link to an article with more information. The Talgo equipment will be leased for five years and will include a maintenance contract. The funding will also pay for five bridge replacements and five miles of additional second mainline trackwork.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/press_release/12245866/state-awards-82m-in-grant-funds-to-enhance-pacific-surfliner-and-commuter-rail-service

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent News! Once again California leads the way as opposed to the head in the sand and rail hating officials in some states. ( are you listening Indiana,Ohio and Wisconsin?)

 

[afigg]

Excellent News! Once again California leads the way as opposed to the head in the sand and rail hating officials in some states. ( are you listening Indiana,Ohio and Wisconsin?)

California shows the benefits of an incremental improvement approach. Get the service up and running and then over a period of (many) years pay for various improvement projects to add capacity, service frequencies, and reduce trip times. Unfortunately Ohio and Gov. Kasich didn't take this approach when he rejected the 3C corridor funding with the excuse in part that the 3C service was going to be too slow.

There are a number of projects funded in this round of state grants. Quoting from the Mass Transit report:

Elvira to Morena Double Track: Constructs 2.6 miles of double track, replaces bridges and makes signal improvements in San Diego County.

Laguna Niguel to San Juan Capistrano Passing Siding: Constructs 1.8 miles of siding and signal improvements in Orange County.

San Diego River Bridge Double Track: Constructs 0.9 miles of double track, replaces and builds a new bridge and makes signal improvements in San Diego County.

Carlsbad Poinsettia Station Improvements: Constructs a new grade-separated passenger crossing, installs new track crossovers, and makes other improvements in San Diego County.

There are also funds for the Capitol Corridor. From Railway Gazette:

Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority will receive $9m for track and power upgrades to enable an extra two Amtrak return journeys per day to run between Sacramento and Roseville. This includes the construction of nearly 13 km of third track and a new bridge near Roseville.

The two Talgo trainsets are sitting there at Beech Grove. With the delay in the Nippon-Sharyo delivery schedule, we could see the LOSSAN board move quickly to commit the funds and sign the contracts to get the 2 trainsets in service.

 

[MattW]

Anyone know if this is aiming toward a coast daylight? I think I remember that a Coast Daylight would only require two trainsets, and while the Talgos may not be the perfect LD equipment, I can't think of a better service for them than what amounts to their own unique service timetable.

 

[afigg]

One benefit to Amtrak if the Talgo trainsets replace the single level Surfliner trainset is that should free up a few Amfleets to be used in the east.

California State Transportation Agency (CalSTA) press release which is the source of the news: Transportation Agency Awards $390 Million in Cap and Trade Grants to Expand Transit, Reduce Emissions and Create Jobs.

There are links at the end of the press release to documents with more details on what the funds will be used for. The $82 million for the LOSSAN corridor is part of a $350 million total project budget which is described as providing these benefits: "and additional frequencies of the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner between Los Angeles and San Diego. Amtrak travel times between Los Angeles and San Diego are expected to be about 10 minutes faster for the typical train."

 

[afigg]

Anyone know if this is aiming toward a coast daylight? I think I remember that a Coast Daylight would only require two trainsets, and while the Talgos may not be the perfect LD equipment, I can't think of a better service for them than what amounts to their own unique service timetable.

Doubt it. The Wisconsin Talgos were built for a relatively short distance corridor service. Likely not really suitable for an all day train trip w/o major mods. The Surfliners and Nippon-Sharyo bi-levels would be more suitable for the Coast Daylight if it ever gets fully funded and out of the study loop it appears to be stuck in. On the other hand, the trip time reductions provided by the tilting Talgos could be a plus for the CD route.

 

[Anthony V]

The Talgos would be better off being used on the Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque route if that ever gets going due to all the twists and turns in Jo Daviess county. This could shave an hour off the proposed schedule, and allow convenient departure and arrival times in Dubuque and Rockford.

 

[CCC1007]

The Talgos would be better off being used on the Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque route if that ever gets going due to all the twists and turns in Jo Daviess county. This could shave an hour off the proposed schedule, and allow convenient departure and arrival times in Dubuque and Rockford.

California is only leasing them...

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

How will the sets be transported?

Will the use PS F59s to pull them?

Will they be painted in current PS colors?

 

[west point]

Would not work for a coast daylight to SFO. Caltrain is planning for high level platforms SJC - SFO Talgos not able kigh level platforms..

 

[MattW]

But when will the high level platforms be installed? Within 5 years?

 

[PerRock]

Talgo's use low-level platforms.

peter

 

[seat38a]

The Talgos would be better off being used on the Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque route if that ever gets going due to all the twists and turns in Jo Daviess county. This could shave an hour off the proposed schedule, and allow convenient departure and arrival times in Dubuque and Rockford.

Well your State needs to as I quote: "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

 

[seat38a]

They maybe leasing the the long awaited commuter service for Ventura to Santa Barbara, especially if it is going to be used up north of LA.

http://www.independent.com/news/2015/mar/19/commuter-train-service-expected-spring-2016/

 

[bretton88]

They maybe leasing the the long awaited commuter service for Ventura to Santa Barbara, especially if it is going to be used up north of LA.

http://www.independent.com/news/2015/mar/19/commuter-train-service-expected-spring-2016/

Doubtful. They are pretty clear it's for SLO to LA service.

 

[PRR 60]

Wildly off-topic political comment and related replies removed.

 

[bretton88]

I wonder how they'll achieve the 25 minute time savings. UP has completely refused to play ball on giving the Talgos special speed limits in Oregon, so I'm not sure what would be different here.

 

[jis]

The amount of money and state of relationship between CalDOT and UP. UP has been unusually cooperative in California such as not been seen anywhere else.

 

[seat38a]

They maybe leasing the the long awaited commuter service for Ventura to Santa Barbara, especially if it is going to be used up north of LA.

http://www.independent.com/news/2015/mar/19/commuter-train-service-expected-spring-2016/

Doubtful. They are pretty clear it's for SLO to LA service.

The commuter is not supposed to be a special train but re timeing and adjustments to the LA to SLO section of the the Pacific Surfliner. It has been LOSSAN's goal for a while to add another frequency to the schedule so I can see the Talgo's serving the role until the bilevels arrive.

 

[seat38a]

The amount of money and state of relationship between CalDOT and UP. UP has been unusually cooperative in California such as not been seen anywhere else.

If anything, the partnership they have with the State for the Capitol Corridor probably proved to UP, that working with the State can be beneficial to them. How can they not like it, when the State is paying for the rails and the signals etc between San Jose and Aubern(I think) to be kept up. With the double tracking, sidings and crossovers the State put in, and yet UP still owns the tracks, how can they not like the relationship they have.

 

[Acela150]

The amount of money and state of relationship between CalDOT and UP. UP has been unusually cooperative in California such as not been seen anywhere else.

Well said. And it is a bit strange how cooperative UP is with the California service.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The amount of money and state of relationship between CalDOT and UP. UP has been unusually cooperative in California such as not been seen anywhere else.

Well said. And it is a bit strange how cooperative UP is with the California service.

It's not strange. California just pays UP more money for trackage rights than Amtrak does.