Texas Eagle getting "Contemporary Dining?"

[cpotisch]

You said just that exact same thing in your post!

Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would.

To clarify, we personally like to eat at Waffle House once or twice a year, and I feel like they theoretically could run the dining cars more efficiently than Amtrak. However that *does not mean I actually think that Waffle House should take over Amtrak dining*, considering how (un)healthy their food is, and their less than stellar health code performance.

 

[tonys96]

Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.

Hey Tony, how's things in the Metroplex?Long time no hear from.
As for inside info, Thirdrail17 does an excellent job of providing us with hints,teases and plans and disspelling rumours before they are announced by Amflacks.

The old saying that where there is Smoke there's Fire usually proves to be True!

As my namesake sings,"..the answer my Friend is Blowing in the Wind.."

Hi Jim. Metroplex is still here!I did not run for reelection this year. 25 years serving the community is enough. And I have had 6 surgeries in a 12 month period, 4 of them spinal surgeries, so I was not really healthy enough to run. Of course, I am still involved in it, though.

We still want to do the CZ someday, but are concerned about this diner situation on LD routes.

 

[the_traveler]

In post #13, you posted

Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would.

In post #51, you posted

However that *does not mean I actually think that Waffle House should take over Amtrak dining*, considering how (un)healthy their food is, and their less than stellar health code perform.

So which is true?

 

[cpotisch]

In post #13, you posted

Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would.

In post #51, you posted

However that *does not mean I actually think that Waffle House should take over Amtrak dining*, considering how (un)healthy their food is, and their less than stellar health code perform.

So which is true?

The latter. Poor choice of words with that first one.

 

[Rheavon]

Got off the 21 last night. It seems like one of the dining car staff was a bit new to everything and made me wonder if she was just temporarily on staff since maybe others had jobs lined up elsewhere? My SCA confirmed the "Contemporary Dining" options were coming to the Texas Eagle.

 

[cpotisch]

Got off the 21 last night. It seems like one of the dining car staff was a bit new to everything and made me wonder if she was just temporarily on staff since maybe others had jobs lined up elsewhere? My SCA confirmed the "Contemporary Dining" options were coming to the Texas Eagle.

Great. At this point I don't see any way that the TE keeps full meal service. Ride it while you can, folks!

 

[DevalDragon]

You do realize they can also bump (move) into TA positions, redi crew positions, as well as transfer to other crew bases around the country? Not to mention with the turnover rate in OBS as well as people transferring into other crafts (ie conductor or office or management positions) , most crew bases are always short of personnel....Very rarely are OBS personnel furloughed other than sometimes by their own choice.

We are already seeing NYC staff bumping people from Chicago. At some point they will run out of jobs at the rate Amtrak is eliminating positions. Times are different under Anderson and the rules of the game are changing.

Amtrak has been eliminating jobs through attrition for years. But that can only last so long...

 

[MikeM]

The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.

Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.

 

[me_little_me]

Subway tried that in the cafe cars between ALB and NYP (where there is no cafe service on Empire Service trains that only operate between those two) a few years ago. They no longer do so.

But that ride is only a few hours and doesn't need full meal service, and Subway doesn't offer table service. I'm just wondering if a chain restaurant with proper table service could possibly take over a dining car and run a tighter and more efficient ship than Amtrak themselves. This is all hypothetical and I have no idea what realistically would or wouldn't work and why, but it's just a thought.

The problem is staffing costs. A stationary restaurant can pay wait staff minimum wage (or even less than minimum wage and expect tips to pick up the rest) and fill the position. They can also fill it with part-time help that they don't have to pay benefits for. The nature of Amtrak's dining service doesn't allow for that kind of flexibility. Especially with delays, there aren't many places to turn staff and have them back home at the end of the day, so you're going to have to pay for people who are willing to work overnight. That drives up wages. That also means that you can't rely on part-time help, so a benefits package also has to be paid for. This is good for the workers, but it does drive up the cost, and so even with the efficiencies of scale there likely wouldn't be massive savings by outsourcing it.

(There'd probably be a bit, simply because Amtrak wouldn't need to do its own management of the diners, develop its own menus, etc., and could work with the bulk discounts a larger company may get, but I doubt it'd be enough to make the diners break-even or save the amount that the boxed meals save.)

What would the union say about having non-union jobs where they were union jobs before? I think that might be a bigger issue. It's one thing to eliminate jobs (especially if it can be done through attrition or buyouts) and another if the jobs are outsourced. Private companies can do it but often run into buzz saws if unionized. For Amtrak to do it, that might be more of an issue.

 

[jebr]

Oh, I'm sure the union would protest mightily if their jobs were replaced by non-union employees.

To me, it's also a false savings to reduce costs by simply paying workers less. It's one thing if, as people leave or move to different positions, those positions simply aren't refilled. It's quite another to expect people to take a pay cut just to save the company money. As far as I'm aware, dining car attendants are paid a decent, living wage, but they're not getting rich off of it. Any major cut would essentially expect them to work for less money than what they need to live comfortably, and that's a change that I'd protest mightily. Dining car service isn't worth saving if it means the employees are paid a sub-living wage.

 

[cpotisch]

The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.

Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.

I don't think that storing them in the dining car for four days is going to be the main concern. We don't know how far in advance the meals are prepped anyway, and I don't think it makes much difference for them to be stored in a dining car fridge or a commissary fridge.

 

[ehbowen]

"This is your Texas Eagle dining car steward. For your lunch today as we approach Chicago, your choices are the delicious peanut butter crackers or the ever-popular Dinty Moore beef stew!"

 

[TinCan782]

The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.

Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.

Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip.

At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".

 

[cpotisch]

"This is your Texas Eagle dining car steward. For your lunch today as we approach Chicago, your choices are the delicious peanut butter crackers or the ever-popular Dinty Moore beef stew!"

Served over rice on a plastic plate with disposable napkins and silverware!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats? That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.

Please remember all we have, at this point, are rumors.......

We have several people relaying similar reports and a history of Amtrak following through on such threats. We also have some public relations marketing spin waxing poetic about how everyone loves the new changes. From Amtrak's perspective the new contemporary dining benefits include fewer staff, smaller selections, less prep-work, cheaper costs, and lots of happy customers. What possible reason would Amtrak have for not putting the new meals on the TE? The writing is on the wall whether you choose to read it or not.

Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip. At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".

Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens is the best way to ensure you have zero say in the matter. Welcome to your new contemporary dining.

 

[TinCan782]

Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats? That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.

Please remember all we have, at this point, are rumors.......

We have several people relaying similar reports and a history of Amtrak following through on such threats. We also have some public relations marketing spin waxing poetic about how everyone loves the new changes. From Amtrak's perspective the new contemporary dining benefits include fewer staff, smaller selections, less prep-work, cheaper costs, and lots of happy customers. What possible reason would Amtrak have for not putting the new meals on the TE? The writing is on the wall whether you choose to read it or not.

Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip. At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".

Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens is the best way to ensure you have zero say in the matter. Welcome to your new contemporary dining.

In early June I indeed voiced my concerns, via U.S. Mail, to my three elected representatives in Washington regarding the contemporary dining. A month ago I did the same regarding the Southwest Chief.

 

[the_traveler]

I know they do not have Dining cars (only cafes) but that is how it is done on the Adirondack and Maple Leaf. All food and drinks are loaded in NYC for BOTH directions.

To make it more confusing, the ML is technically a VIA train while in Canada. While Amtrak has an exclusive contact with Pepsi, VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke! So both are loaded for both ways, Pepsi in NYC and Coke in Toronto. But you can not get a Coke while the train is in NYS (since it is an Amtrak train), nor can you get a Pepsi while the train is in Ontario (since it a VIA train)!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip. At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".

Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens is the best way to ensure you have zero say in the matter. Welcome to your new contemporary dining.

In early June I indeed voiced my concerns, via U.S. Mail, to my three elected representatives in Washington regarding the contemporary dining. A month ago I did the same regarding the Southwest Chief.

Well here on AU you're currently voicing your lack of concern. Sorry for the confusion but you seem to be sending two different messages. Keep in mind that not all rumors are created equally and that these particular rumors fit a profile that is backed by precedent. So far as I am aware Anderson's Amtrak has made one meaningful change since the original introduction of contemporary meals. They replaced one of the cold options with a reheat option. Everything else has remained roughly the same and the "nothing to see here" crowd has little more than bureaucratic inertia on their side. Put yourself in Anderson's shoes and then ask yourself why you would not roll out boxed lunches to the rest of the fleet.

 

[railiner]

I know they do not have Dining cars (only cafes) but that is how it is done on the Adirondack and Maple Leaf. All food and drinks are loaded in NYC for BOTH directions.

To make it more confusing, the ML is technically a VIA train while in Canada. While Amtrak has an exclusive contact with Pepsi, VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke! So both are loaded for both ways, Pepsi in NYC and Coke in Toronto. But you can not get a Coke while the train is in NYS (since it is an Amtrak train), nor can you get a Pepsi while the train is in Ontario (since it a VIA train)!

The last time I rode the Maple Leaf, many years ago, when it had just started running, the practice was for the Amtrak attendant to lock up his stock upon reaching NFL. The Via attendant then boarded at NFS, with a much smaller stock, just enough for the short hop to Toronto.

Are you saying the VIA Rail stock remains on board now locked up for the round trip to NY?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I haven't ridden the Maple Leaf in 2 years, but during my many trips( in BC) between NY and Canada on this Train, the VIA and Amtrak attendants changed out all stock @ the Niagara Falls ON VIA Staion.

Of course they've changed the Canadian Customs and Immigration procedures, you now get OFF the Train and go inside the Station with your stuff, whereas before you were checked on the Train.

I doubt if the Canadian stuff goes all the way to NYP and that the American stuff goes to Toronto since storage space isnt that big in the Split Cafe/BC Car.

One note of interest about paying for stuff in the Cafe, Canada did away with the Penny so prices,are rounded off ( including the GST) but they will take Loonies($1) and Toonies ($2)Coins in Canada, while Amtrak only accepts Canadian Bills($5 and up),no Coins.

Hopefully someone with current info can provide this if it's Changed!!

 

[TinCan782]

Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip. At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".

Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens is the best way to ensure you have zero say in the matter. Welcome to your new contemporary dining.

In early June I indeed voiced my concerns, via U.S. Mail, to my three elected representatives in Washington regarding the contemporary dining. A month ago I did the same regarding the Southwest Chief.

Well here on AU you're currently voicing your lack of concern. Sorry for the confusion but you seem to be sending two different messages. Keep in mind that not all rumors are created equally and that these particular rumors fit a profile that is backed by precedent. So far as I am aware Anderson's Amtrak has made one meaningful change since the original introduction of contemporary meals. They replaced one of the cold options with a reheat option. Everything else has remained roughly the same and the "nothing to see here" crowd has little more than bureaucratic inertia on their side. Put yourself in Anderson's shoes and then ask yourself why you would not roll out boxed lunches to the rest of the fleet.

On this particular TE topic, my "sitting on the sidelines" is strictly in regards to waiting to hear something concrete. I'm not going to jump on something I read, here or on Facebook or, on other sites, based on hearsay.

I agree with you that replacing "one of the cold options with a reheat option" was a good move and probably a result of initial comments about the meal choices. I figure the contemporary dining is not going away but will continue to be refined. Refined to the point of going back to before? I wouldn't expect it to. I do see your point regarding being in Anderson's shoes. As has been voiced here before, I too believe its a business decision for him. Whether I/we agree or not, he is making these decisions.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Anderson will be gone soon. I give him 3-6 months, thats 3-6 months too long.

 

[cpotisch]

Anderson will be gone soon. I give him 3-6 months, thats 3-6 months too long.

What makes you say that? Just because he's unpopular with some folks doesn't mean they're going to kick him out. From the board's standpoint, so long as he's following federal statutes and mandates, and is trying to help Amtrak achieve it's core competency, they don't have cause or reason to kick him out.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Correct, all of his ideas are good business decisions, they just might not be decisions that we want.

 

[the_traveler]

As much as I do not like some of the changes being made, I have to agree. Not all changes that save money are liked by everyone all the time.