Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[hastybob]

The 61000 is in New York now. It went down on 234 this morning early.

 

[edjbox]

question is if some existing heritage baggage cars are replaced with baggage-dorms, that means Amtrak will have less room for baggage; will this work?

 

[bgiaquin]

Maybe they will keep a small # of heritage baggages just in case. It certainly would be wise to anyway.

 

[Ryan]

No, they're not going to keep any Heratige bags. They're falling apart.

They're also getting new full-baggage cars.

Trains that need them will get them.

Trains that need the dorm space will get bag-dorms. If the limited baggage space is a problem for that train, they can always add a full bag (or another bag-dorm and sell the extra rooms).

It's not rocket surgery.

 

[MrFSS]

No, they're not going to keep any Heratige bags. They're falling apart.

They're also getting new full-baggage cars.

Trains that need them will get them.

Trains that need the dorm space will get bag-dorms. If the limited baggage space is a problem for that train, they can always add a full bag (or another bag-dorm and sell the extra rooms).

It's not rocket surgery.

If I understand the new bag car layouts, they will have shelves that allow bags to be loaded in now unused vertical space as opposed to what they have now with almost all of the bags being on the floor. At least the ones I have seen inside are that way. Do any of the old ones have any shelving/racks inside?

 

[Ryan]

Not to my knowledge, I've never seen any.

That's a good point, you may be able to put as much stuff into a bag-dorm as you can a heritage bag because of the better space utilization.

 

[jis]

question is if some existing heritage baggage cars are replaced with baggage-dorms, that means Amtrak will have less room for baggage; will this work?

I am sure that the thought has occurred to the planners at Amtrak and they figure that with the shelving in the new baggage space they do have enough capacity. Afterall if they don't know what capacity they need, it is highly unlikely that any armchair planner on AU knows either.

 

[hastybob]

In the past, there have been some baggage dorm cars that had shelves. The ones I remember were the ex Army Hospital cars. Rarely were the shelves used, though. No one wants to lift another heavy bag up to a shelf. So, I expect that the shelves will be taken out eventually. We will see.

 

[ACS-64]

The 61000 is in New York now. It went down on 234 this morning early.

Look for it heading down to PHL around sunset.

 

[jis]

In the past, there have been some baggage dorm cars that had shelves. The ones I remember were the ex Army Hospital cars. Rarely were the shelves used, though. No one wants to lift another heavy bag up to a shelf. So, I expect that the shelves will be taken out eventually. We will see.

In other words folks who are supposed to use them will sabotage the attempt to save on cost of additional cars. That is sad and gives one pause on whether things should be funded at all. And yet passengers are expected to lift their bags onto the baggage racks above their head. Sorry no sympathy for that sort of attitude. Those who cannot lift bags onto a waist level shelf should find alternative employment IMHO.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

question is if some existing heritage baggage cars are replaced with baggage-dorms, that means Amtrak will have less room for baggage . . . ?

I'm pretty sure that the new baggage cars and bag dorms are longer than the Heritage cars. Enuff so that capacity will be at least equal and possibly expand. Pretty sure this point has been chewed over in other threads by people much smarter than me and put my mind at ease about it.

But c'mon. The presumption that Amtrak is sooooooh stupid they didn't correctly figure out the space needed for baggage . . . and you are the first to notice? Really?

And you presume that folks on this board would not have recognized such a problem long long ago?

If you want to expand your knowledge base, try reading some threads from the beginning of time, or at least since the beginning of the Stimulus spending, when stuff really started happening. But even reading a few pages back would often help.

I myself just found this gem on another blog while doing a quick (and abandoned LOL) search for the relevant bag car lengths:

Re: Viewliner baggage cars by Jersey_Mike » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:51 am

. . .Someone explained that the Viewliner II baggage cars are going to be of a flexible design that will allow later conversion to other use types as money becomes available. Therefore if current funds are limited and outfitting cars as dorms costs too much money, it is best for Amtrak to get the cars on the property then convert them later.


Wonder if Jersey Mike subsequently retracted this. If not, it makes me feel much, much better about the Viewliner II order.

 

[MDRailfan]

This might be been addressed before so please excuse me but will the new roomettes upper berth still drop from the ceiling like the current ones and with no toilet, how do you get to the upper berth?

 

[jis]

Someone explained that the Viewliner II baggage cars are going to be of a flexible design that will allow later conversion to other use types as money becomes available. Therefore if current funds are limited and outfitting cars as dorms costs too much money, it is best for Amtrak to get the cars on the property then convert them later.

Wonder if Jersey Mike subsequently retracted this. If not, it makes me feel much, much better about the Viewliner II order.

It is of course true that they are standard Viewliner shells and therefore can be converted to whatever later for an appropriate cost. But there is no evidence that the current order will not be delivered with the car types as planned. So don't expect some cars to be delivered essentially as empty shells to be converted later.
As for length of baggage cars, many of the heritage baggage cars are converted from standard 85' Coaches, so they are exactly the same length as the new Viewliner baggage cars. There are some that are shorter cars, but not all of them are the shorter variety. For details get a copy of David Warners Amtrak by the Numbers.

This might be been addressed before so please excuse me but will the new roomettes upper berth still drop from the ceiling like the current ones and with no toilet, how do you get to the upper berth?

Yes. The toilet is replaced by a step

 

[MDRailfan]

Someone explained that the Viewliner II baggage cars are going to be of a flexible design that will allow later conversion to other use types as money becomes available. Therefore if current funds are limited and outfitting cars as dorms costs too much money, it is best for Amtrak to get the cars on the property then convert them later.

Wonder if Jersey Mike subsequently retracted this. If not, it makes me feel much, much better about the Viewliner II order.

It is of course true that they are standard Viewliner shells and therefore can be converted to whatever later for an appropriate cost. But there is no evidence that the current order will not be delivered with the car types as planned. So don't expect some cars to be delivered essentially as empty shells to be converted later.
As for length of baggage cars, many of the heritage baggage cars are converted from standard 85' Coaches, so they are exactly the same length as the new Viewliner baggage cars. There are some that are shorter cars, but not all of them are the shorter variety. For details get a copy of David Warners Amtrak by the Numbers.

This might be been addressed before so please excuse me but will the new roomettes upper berth still drop from the ceiling like the current ones and with no toilet, how do you get to the upper berth?

Yes. The toilet is replaced by a step

Thanks. Had another..Will there still be a shower in addition to the toilet room or combined

 

[jis]

There will be a separate common use shower room, and two restrooms in each car. Of course the bedrooms will continue to have their own private shower and toilet facilities.

 

[battalion51]

The bag-dorms will be ideally suited for trains like the Cardinal and the LSL. If you put the Bag-Dorm on the New York section and a full bag car on the Boston section you can work out of the full bag car CHI-ALB and transfer the NYP bound bags at ALB (vice versa going west). The coach TA and LSA who go on to Boston won't have their rooms from ALB-BOS, but they should be at their post anyway. On the Cardinal you have a low volume of bags since there are only four revenue cars on the train, and a low number of stops with check bag service. On other trains like Silver Service and the Crescent you will likely see a full bag car with the bag-dorm. It's possible during low season they may take the full bag car off, but when you've got eight plus revenue cars on the trains during holiday rush periods and summer season you'll need the space.

 

[Acela150]

Anyone know if #61000 made it to PHL yet?? I'll try to stop by and get some photos if it has.

 

[Anderson]

I do have to ask, since the question came up in the California equipment thread: How long is the option good for?

 

[NE933]

Just passed by Philly Race St. yard; the new Viewliner 2 baggage is there, coupled to an Amfleet cafe in Northeast Regional scheme.

 

[HAL]

In the past, there have been some baggage dorm cars that had shelves. The ones I remember were the ex Army Hospital cars. Rarely were the shelves used, though. No one wants to lift another heavy bag up to a shelf. So, I expect that the shelves will be taken out eventually. We will see.

In other words folks who are supposed to use them will sabotage the attempt to save on cost of additional cars. That is sad and gives one pause on whether things should be funded at all. And yet passengers are expected to lift their bags onto the baggage racks above their head. Sorry no sympathy for that sort of attitude. Those who cannot lift bags onto a waist level shelf should find alternative employment IMHO.

Your post is sad. You are assuming something that has not happened is going to happen.

As far as anyone not being able to lift bags finding alternative employement your not so humble opinion won't happen so it is not contstructive.

However the new bag car is designed inside it has to be designed to be worked safely without injury to employees. If in practice there have to be modifications--- so be it. Modifications are not unusual. Sometimes modifications are needed that the designers did not anticipate or the designers made a mistake. The ACS - 64 are an example. I have not yet seen the inside of the new bag cars yet so I won't make a prejudgement.

 

[Steve4031]

I think there is a requirement that the employees working the baggage car be able to lift a certain amount of weight. There are also restrictions on weight for checked luggage. Additionally, railroad workers undergo safety training encouraging them to lift using certain techniques. So IMHO there should be no problems with the new cars. They wouldn't be designed with such a basic safety flaw.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I think there is a requirement that the employees working the baggage car be able to lift a certain amount of weight. There are also restrictions on weight for checked luggage. Additionally, railroad workers undergo safety training encouraging them to lift using certain techniques. So IMHO there should be no problems with the new cars. They wouldn't be designed with such a basic safety flaw.

Airlines have strict weight limits and like to charge more for overweight bags. But the limits are lower and more strict in London, those damn Socialists, as an element of their OSHA type laws. So never mind an extra charge, they won't handle overweight bags at Heathrow. Thinking about it that way, and about some poor sap ripping his back, I'm OK with a 50-pound limit per bag. And the upper shelf on the Viewliner II bag cars can be well used for lighter bags that would be called "carry-on" size on the planes.

 

[jis]

In the past, there have been some baggage dorm cars that had shelves. The ones I remember were the ex Army Hospital cars. Rarely were the shelves used, though. No one wants to lift another heavy bag up to a shelf. So, I expect that the shelves will be taken out eventually. We will see.

In other words folks who are supposed to use them will sabotage the attempt to save on cost of additional cars. That is sad and gives one pause on whether things should be funded at all. And yet passengers are expected to lift their bags onto the baggage racks above their head. Sorry no sympathy for that sort of attitude. Those who cannot lift bags onto a waist level shelf should find alternative employment IMHO.

Your post is sad. You are assuming something that has not happened is going to happen.

Please note that I was merely responding to an assumption made in the post that I was responding to. So your assumption about me assuming something by myself is not really accurate. So I conclude that your sorrow about my post is based on your misunderstanding of the situation.
I am quite certain that the design of the baggage car takes into consideration all the relevant OSHA issues and they will be workable within the constraints laid down in OSHA.

 

[Acela150]

Redacted

I didn't know you worked for the CIA Jis..

 

[jis]

What are you talking about?