Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Ryan]

If you don't want to put heavy bags on shelves, you shouldn't take a job that requires doing that.

That ought not be a very controversial statement.

 

[Acela150]

If you don't want to put heavy bags on shelves, you shouldn't take a job that requires doing that.

That ought not be a very controversial statement.

Controversial or not it's true..

 

[HAL]

If you don't want to put heavy bags on shelves, you shouldn't take a job that requires doing that.

That ought not be a very controversial statement.

Whose job requires putting heavy bags on shelves onboard trains? None that I can think of offhand who works onboard were hired to do that. If you think you know who was hired to do such please enlighten.....

 

[Ryan]

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

 

[HAL]

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

Not lifting heavy bags on to shelves. There have never been shelves. You can't just add something and say that is "baggage handling".

 

[Acela150]

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

http://jobs.amtrak.com/job/Washington-On-Corridor-Passenger-Conductor-Trainee-90106795-Washington-DC-20002/59663600/

Ryan on the old Job site for Amtrak it stated the Candidate must be able to lift 50 lbs.

I would imagine that bigger stations such as NYP, PHL, WAS, CHI, LAX, and SEA have their own personal to load and unload with Conductors opening the Baggage Door.

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

Not lifting heavy bags on to shelves. There have never been shelves. You can't just add something and say that is "baggage handling".

While I can agree with you to a point. If a conductor(s) is required to assist with Baggage Handling at certain stations then lifting onto and off of shelves will become a part of the deal.

 

[HAL]

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

http://jobs.amtrak.com/job/Washington-On-Corridor-Passenger-Conductor-Trainee-90106795-Washington-DC-20002/59663600/

Ryan on the old Job site for Amtrak it stated the Candidate must be able to lift 50 lbs.

I would imagine that bigger stations such as NYP, PHL, WAS, CHI, LAX, and SEA have their own personal to load and unload with Conductors opening the Baggage Door.

Baggage handling is part of a conductor's job description, no?

Not lifting heavy bags on to shelves. There have never been shelves. You can't just add something and say that is "baggage handling".

While I can agree with you to a point. If a conductor(s) is required to assist with Baggage Handling at certain stations then lifting onto and off of shelves will become a part of the deal.

I found a picture of the interior and conclude this has been much ado about nothing. The shelves appear to be low enough not to require lifting above the head as someone implied. Baggage is already piled to that height. Also the shelves fold out from the side so they would not have to be used. There would not even be an issue of removing them if they were not used since they fold out of the way. But I think they will be used. I foresee a possible problem though having them all folded out on both sides at the same time. They might only work efficiently with sections folded out on one side at a time.

 

[Ryan]

DO you mind sharing the picture?

If you can do the job without using the shelves, that's great.

But the statement that your employer was going to have to modify the cars because nobody wants to use them is ridiculous.

 

[HAL]

DO you mind sharing the picture?

If you can do the job without using the shelves, that's great.

But the statement that your employer was going to have to modify the cars because nobody wants to use them is ridiculous.

My initial reaction was based on people posting that using them would be sabatoged because they require lifting. I thought they had actually seen them. There was an intimation that there would be lifting over head height. That turns out not to be true. I don't see that they would require lifting or much more than already happens. As far as posting the image, it appears I don't know how to post it. I can't get it to paste.

Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason. Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason.

 

[HAL]

DO you mind sharing the picture?

If you can do the job without using the shelves, that's great.

But the statement that your employer was going to have to modify the cars because nobody wants to use them is ridiculous.

My initial reaction was based on people posting that using them would be sabatoged because they require lifting. I thought they had actually seen them. There was an intimation that there would be lifting over head height. That turns out not to be true. I don't see that they would require lifting or much more than already happens. As far as posting the image, it appears I don't know how to post it. I can't get it to paste.

Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason. Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason.

Here is a link to a picture.

http://history.amtrak.com/archives/viewliner-ii-baggage-car-interior-2013

 

[neroden]

I do have to ask, since the question came up in the California equipment thread: How long is the option good for?

This information has never been made public as far as I know. (I've been watching everything Amtrak's published about this since the initial announcement.)

 

[jis]

DO you mind sharing the picture?

If you can do the job without using the shelves, that's great.

But the statement that your employer was going to have to modify the cars because nobody wants to use them is ridiculous.

My initial reaction was based on people posting that using them would be sabatoged because they require lifting. I thought they had actually seen them. There was an intimation that there would be lifting over head height. That turns out not to be true. I don't see that they would require lifting or much more than already happens. As far as posting the image, it appears I don't know how to post it. I can't get it to paste.

Hal, as I said, I accept that it is possible to have interpreted my response to the message that set you off the way you did, and it was a misunderstanding. Ryan and Hal, I think we should put this behind us and move along. I did not say anything about needing to lift bags in the baggage car above head level. I said passengers have to do so in passenger cars, so it should not be too darn hard for personnel to lift bags to at most waist level in baggage cars. Anyway that is what I intended to say, and I did not say it clearly enough.

As for the picture, here it is, (photo by Amtrak):

Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason. Everything that Amtrak has bought has required modifications. No doubt these will require some. Now having actually seen the interior I have a different concern about the shelves. I am skeptical about Amtrak maintaining them. They have moving parts and baggage cars have had low priority. If the shelves are not maintained properly they might have to be removed in the future for that reason.

Shades of the TV monitors in Viewliner Is eh? Or maybe they'll simply be stolen, who knows? It is Amtrak afterall!

 

[neroden]

question is if some existing heritage baggage cars are replaced with baggage-dorms, that means Amtrak will have less room for baggage; will this work?

I worried about this myself. Until I learned that many of the Heritage baggage cars are significantly shorter than the 85' long Viewliner IIs. I haven't been able to find a site which actually says exactly how long each Heritage baggage car is. But the cars originally built as baggage cars seem to mostly be 73'10". As for the converted coaches, which seem to be mostly 85', they have weight limits lower than the other baggage cars because their suspensions weren't built to handle the baggage. Finally, most of the Heritage baggage cars don't have shelves.

So I think the loss in useable capacity will be significantly smaller than you might at first think. It's not going to be the 50% reduction which it naively appears to be. A Viewliner II bag-dorm might have 80% of the useful capacity of a Heritage baggage car. I'm still expecting full baggage cars to be needed on the single-level trains at peak times, though.

 

[neroden]

No, they're not going to keep any Heratige bags. They're falling apart.

There are fewer than 58 baggage cars in daily use (I'm not exactly sure how many). 25 Viewliner bag-dorms and 55 Viewliner baggage cars really should replace all of them, even if some trains need both a baggage car and a bag-dorm.

However, the last fleet plan published (3.1) indicated the intent to keep 25 Heritage baggage cars "active" indefinitely. It's on page 56. Of course, this plan also indicated that there are 416 (!!!) baggage cars still on the roster (mostly inactive), which is a little weird; there must be a *lot* of stored baggage cars somewhere. Anyway, if Amtrak does decide to keep some Heritage baggage cars active, I assume it would be strictly for "peak of the peak" such as Thanksgiving traffic. I'd also bet that Amtrak would keep only the ones built as baggage cars, and scrap all of the coaches-converted-to-baggage-cars, an idea which apparently caused structural problems.

 

[Acela150]

61000 is sitting in Penn Coach Yard this morning. Lookin' nice too!

 

[PerRock]

There are a handful of heritage cars in Beech Grove, however I wonder if that 416 includes the the Superliner Coach Baggages and Cabbages.

peter

 

[PaulM]

Is that bicycle an indication that there will be roll-on, roll-off bike service like Amtrak has been promising the Great Allegheny Passage crowd for a long time? Or is it just an employee who found a good place to stash his ride?

 

[Deni]

An article I saw about the new baggage cars said specifically they were designed with bike racks included.

 

[Anderson]

I do wonder if some of the 416 "baggage" cars might not actually be the leftover Amtrak Express cars, simply accounted for in a rather sloppy manner.

 

[Acela150]

Most of those 400+cars will be scrapped or end up running on the Circus Train.

 

[neroden]

There are a handful of heritage cars in Beech Grove, however I wonder if that 416 includes the the Superliner Coach Baggages and Cabbages.

No, they're listed separately. The implication is that these baggage cars are "stored dead", since they're inactive.

I do wonder if some of the 416 "baggage" cars might not actually be the leftover Amtrak Express cars, simply accounted for in a rather sloppy manner.

That's extremely likely. I'm still a little curious *where* Amtrak is storing 300+ baggage or express freight cars!

 

[Ryan]

Thanks for sharing the picture, Hal. The new car looks great. Hopefully the shelves will work out, and the new cars will allow roll on/roll off bike transport.

I understand that designs aren't perfect at the first go and need some tweaking. Ensuring the kitchen is designed in a useable fashion is one of the reasons why we've seen the 8400 out roaming.

 

[edjbox]

Anyone have a list of passenger/baggage cars that are currently being stored??

As for the express cars, most if not all have been sold off and have been seen on freight trains, some still in faded Amtrak paint with a new car number

 

[jis]

Maybe it is time to branch off a separate thread on baggage cars and their history. Afterall, the current disposition of 400+ Heritage HEP Baggage Cars, while quite interesting I am sure, has precious little to do with Vewliners.

 

[jis]

question is if some existing heritage baggage cars are replaced with baggage-dorms, that means Amtrak will have less room for baggage; will this work?

I worried about this myself. Until I learned that many of the Heritage baggage cars are significantly shorter than the 85' long Viewliner IIs. I haven't been able to find a site which actually says exactly how long each Heritage baggage car is. But the cars originally built as baggage cars seem to mostly be 73'10". As for the converted coaches, which seem to be mostly 85', they have weight limits lower than the other baggage cars because their suspensions weren't built to handle the baggage. Finally, most of the Heritage baggage cars don't have shelves.

According to Warner's Amtrak by the Numbers, the HEP Heritage Baggage fleet has 80 Short Baggage Cars numbered 1350 to 1429. 1350 through 1379 retained their original numbers. Many of the rest were renumbered into the 1100 and 1200 series, so it is hard to figure out how many got that treatment without going through the conversion lists on a car by car basis. I don't know how many are still in service (possibly none. The would be the single door really short cars, which I don't recall having seen in the recent past). Apparently all were converted from Army Kitchen and Ambulance cars.

Then there are the original baggage cars which are the 73 footers (I think) and they are sprinkled all across the 11xx and 12xx numbers today. They are the ones that have two side doors and no end doors. But that is not a distinguishing characteristic, since I believe there are 85 foot baggage cars too that are like that.

OTOL Roster says that there are only 27 cars in the 1160 - 1259 number range still in service. Many of these are probably 73 footers. I don't know if there are any ex-Army ones, which are shorter, are left. There are 35 converted 85 footer baggage cars in service numbered in the 17xx block.