Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[jis]

[jest mode on]

Must be Boardman riding around in his new toy. That would explain its coming and going from Philly won't it? Now the question is what menu is he served while playing around in his baggage car. Does the temporary table (one of those baggage shelves I bet) have flower on it?

[jest mode off]

 

[JoeBas]

Personally, I think they're just trolling railfans - doing the "David Copperfield" think and making the car disappear and reappear on the spot.

It's like a cat with a laser pointer...

 

[Agent]

Well they took it to PHL, where it comes and goes. What else would they be doing with it?

Maybe they're running it on round trips to Bala Cynwyd?

 

[edjbox]

I hope these new Viewliners don't have any problems with their pipes freezing

 

[Amtrak172]

I doubt the Viewliner II's will have this problem. Amtrak knows about the problem so they would probably want it fixed. Amtrak knows what to do.

 

[edjbox]

I hope

 

[JoeBas]

I doubt the Viewliner II's will have this problem. Amtrak knows about the problem so they would probably want it fixed. Amtrak knows what to do.

That's a pretty big assumption for an organization that doesn't know that when you spill liquid on butcher paper, it slides around. :unsure:

 

[Amtrak172]

I doubt the Viewliner II's will have this problem. Amtrak knows about the problem so they would probably want it fixed. Amtrak knows what to do.

That's a pretty big assumption for an organization that doesn't know that when you spill liquid on butcher paper, it slides around. :unsure:

Wow, you must not like Amtrak. Why are you here if you don't like them?

 

[Ryan]

No, he has a realistic view of the world.

I think I heard something about a design change that would help this, but I'm not sure about the specifics.

But blind faith that Amtrak can fix anything because they're awesome isn't really grounded in reality.

 

[user 1215]

You would think that Amtrak would know about these problems, but they still exist. Freezing was an issue when the current Amfleets, Viewliners, Superliners, etc. were designed. But they all seem to have issues in the Winter.

I mean, seriously, snow existed in the 1950s when the Amfleets were being designed, and in the 60s when the Hi-Rails were designed, in the 80s & 90s when the Viewliners and Superliners were being designed, but pipes still freeze. Toilets still fail.

 

[Ryan]

I 100% guarantee you that no toilets will fail in the roomettes of the Viewliner II's. h34r:

 

[PRR 60]

I heard that the prototype Viewliner dining car (#8400) was out of service for a period this winter. The reason (wait for it)..... freeze damage.

 

[PerRock]

I heard that the prototype Viewliner dining car (#8400) was out of service for a period this winter. The reason (wait for it)..... freeze damage.

Well #8400 is still a Viewliner I. The main frame & undercarriage workings (which is where you get the freezing) is still the same as the Viewliner I Sleepers. If you look at and current VL Sleeper (or 8400) you'll see all the exsposed parts, whereas if you look at the VL2 Baggage that's out you'll notice that all the undercarriage stuff is now enclosed. I'm not saying there won't be any winter freezing, but there will be considerably less then the current VL1s.

peter

 

[neroden]

The plan was to put some sort of insulation and shrouding on the base of the Viewliner IIs. I have no idea whether they did this. However, they definitely didn't do this on #8400.

(There were some rumors of retrofitting the Viewliner Is, but that probably can't happen until Viewliner IIs go into service.)

 

[Ryan]

Well #8400 is still a Viewliner II. The main frame & undercarriage workings (which is where you get the freezing) is still the same as the Viewliner I Sleepers.

I think you meant "is still a Viewliner I (not II)?

 

[PerRock]

Well #8400 is still a Viewliner II. The main frame & undercarriage workings (which is where you get the freezing) is still the same as the Viewliner I Sleepers.

I think you meant "is still a Viewliner I (not II)?

oops yup, typo.

peter

 

[Amtrak172]

No, he has a realistic view of the world.

I think I heard something about a design change that would help this, but I'm not sure about the specifics.

But blind faith that Amtrak can fix anything because they're awesome isn't really grounded in reality.

The reason why I would think Amtrak would know to fix this is because they wouldn't have to worry about switching around the consists every year. Plus they wouldn't have to make sure that there is an extra Viewliner available for backup.

Amtrak172

 

[Ryan]

They're not worrying about switching consists around every year. The "winter" configuration is the new all-the-time configuration.

You still need an extra Viewliner available for backup in case of other mechanical issues.

 

[jis]

Irrespective of freeze problems, the single level Viewliner fleet has to be rotated through Hialeah for periodic maintenance and inspections.

Part of the freeze problem has its origins in inadequate facilities to hook up power to stabled consists, or failure to do so for reasons that have been discussed elsewhere on AU in the past.

I was talking to some folks at Alaska Railroad last year when I was there after a good 2 feet worth of snow fell in Fairbanks in a single day and then the temp hit -32F. This guy told me that he is not aware of any cars that would not freeze in deep winter if it is not handled properly. Alaska actually drains cars completely of all fluids that are stored dead outside in the winter and then seals them specially, so there is nothing to freeze. Cars that remain in operation remain connected to power and some unspecified procedures are followed regularly while they are stabled to keep them from freezing.

I have no idea if Amtrak has any such specific freeze prevention measures that are followed.

As for Amtrak being able to do something, almost anything is theoretically possible. But many logical things become less than possible given the organizational structure and internal politics within Amtrak. It is a remarkably dysfunctional organization in some parts where it would help if it were not so. Typically what happens is that the guys who have to worry about unfreezing cars are not too connected with the guys whose actions or lack thereof causes them to freeze, and the guy who decides features to be incorporated in cars is way far removed from all that. All this while the management guy above them is busy worrying about something else, or is getting reorganized. So there is often no one really minding the store.

 

[neroden]

Chicago apparently still doesn't have shore power sufficient for all cars. And I think most of Amtrak's other terminals (Pontiac, Port Huron, Grand Rapids, etc.) don't have any shore power. So there you are.

 

[jis]

Of course I am not suggesting that there are no differences in a car's behavior in freezing temperatures irrespective of its construction. Certain cars do fare better than others because of how various critical equipment is placed and whether the under floor equipment is enclosed or not. As Indian Railways is learning in Kashmir, you cannot just take a piece of equipment that works fine on the tropical plains and plop it down in an area that gets temps considerably below freezing for a significant period of time and expect them to just work. They will experience problems in spades in the winter, when they run regular through trains from the plains to Srinagar upon the completion of the remaining part of the Kashmir Railway across the Chenab on one of world's highest steel arch bridge.

 

[William]

I really hope the first diners and baggage dorms go on the Cardinal. That train DESPERATELY needs an upgrade. Half of the current lone Viewliner is used by the crew, resulting in what little space is available for revenue being exorbitantly expensive, and sold out most of the time. It is also the only LD train that runs without a real diner. That also needs to change. I'm pretty much done with that train until the new cars arrive (what sealed that stance was my recent trip from San Francisco to Chicago on the CZ, in a bedroom. Talk about night and day). Hopefully once the current service is brought up to par, they can look at finally making it a daily train. I've also heard rumors that the Cardinal may switch to Superliners and end at D.C., so who knows what is actually going to happen (if that were to happen, hopefully they could improve the scheduling in the middle of the route, specifically Cincinnati. I'd be OK with it coming in at 11PM or 6AM, but 1AM and 3AM are just murder).

 

[Ryan]

Daily Card also needs track improvements in VA at a minimum.

After ridership increased greatly when the Cardinal switched from Superliners to single level (and extended from DC to NY), don't hold your breath for that change. Also, there aren't enough Superliners to do that.

How would you help CIN without hosing over the end points?

 

[Amtrak172]

They're not worrying about switching consists around every year. The "winter" configuration is the new all-the-time configuration.

You still need an extra Viewliner available for backup in case of other mechanical issues.

Do you know why they are making this the new all time configuration? I'll bet because they were getting many complaints from sleeper car passengers about the horn.

Amtrak172

 

[Ryan]

You should try reading the thread about it.