Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm typing on a phone.

 

[MikefromCrete]

There's no real comparison between commuter locomotives and Amtrak's. Amtrak runs the wheels off its locomotives, more than even the freight railroads. Commuter trains run short distances and much of the equipment is idle and weekends and middays on weekdays.

By the way, speaking of old equipment, in the early 1970's, the Illinois Central and Rock Island were both still running commuter equipment made in the mid-1920's. The Highliners built in the late 60's, early to mid 1970's for use on the IC suburban lines are just now being replaced by Metra, so 40-50 year old equipment is not unheard of in transit circles. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it has happened!

 

[cuppb001]

Amtrak in my opinion could've held onto some of the F40 fleet but they didn't and that's a fact. They say that it was due to keeping parts commonality but I do know in the east, Amtrak occasionally substitutes heavily rebuilt GP38H-3s which mechanically are very similar to the F40s. Though even the few commuter railroads that bought a few of Amtrak's retired fleet decided to not use them. California received a few and scrapped all but one. Metra's predecessor bought new F40C locomotives which also were considered retired prematurely by Metra, with all but three being scrapped completely by Metro East. Each railroad makes their own decisions about how, when, and why to retire a locomotive or passenger car fleet. While on the outside it may appear to be a strange move there are often reasons that we as casual observers probably do not know or understand.

 

[William W.]

That was the one thing that I hadn't considered. If I remember correctly, Amtrak inherited a bunch of equipment hadn't been maintained properly, and in a lot of cases, did a lot of maintenance deferring itself. I know that the F40s were ordered newly by Amtrak, so any deferred maintenance is their fault. I've heard it said on here before though that most passenger locomotives have a useful life, if well maintained, of 20-25 years, so perhaps it really was that they were worn out and in need of replacement.

I'm relatively new to railroad stuff, so I don't know everything haha.

 

[neroden]

neroden, as late as 1994 the UK/England was using carriages that must have dated back to the 40's. One coach that I traveled in actually had compartments that seated 6 in a 3 facing 3 pattern. The odd thing was that each compartment had two doors, one to the coach passageway and one that opened out onto the train station platform.

Ah, these are what were known as "corridor coaches". The oldest railway carriages had compartments across the width of the train and NO PASSAGEWAY (you were trapped in the compartment for the entire journey) -- the "corridor" was a later addition. They had "First", "Second", and "Third" class compartments originally, though "Second" was eliminated in the late 19th century, and in the 1950s "Third" was finally renamed "Second".
Compartment designs were already becoming obsolete in the 1940s, replaced by "open saloons", which are the design all coaches have today. In Britain, however, they had not created any new designs for coaches during WWII, and as a result, they kept building coaches to this design in the late 1940s & early 1950s.

They were very cool to ride in, I think they were really old business class because the seats were very comfortable and relatively plush.

Could have been first class, though some British railways had *very* nice third class carriages.

On edit: The funky carriages were on the Waterloo to Exeter route if memory serves. I think it is the West England Main Line, but it seems like it had a different name in the late 80's and ealy 90's.

So you can run 45-year-old coaches... but it's still not a good idea to be running them on *all your routes*.

In many railways (including British Rail), the old rolling stock is "cascaded": the oldest rolling stock runs on the least busy lines with the least heavy duty cycles, while the most intensive and busy service gets the newest rolling stock. A coach starts in constant service running all the time on the high-speed mainline, moves on to a less busy secondary line with more downtime for repairs, and eventually ends up being pulled out only for holidays, before final retirement.

Amtrak badly needs a new fleet of Viewliner coaches and lounges to replace the extremely-heavily-used Amfleet IIs. Once that happens, the Amfleet IIs could probably still be used in lighter duty service for some years, for corridors with more "sitting still time". Heck, Amtrak may keep some Heritage baggage cars for Thanksgiving overflow. But that doesn't change the fact that new cars are needed for regular service.

 

[gaspeamtrak]

We are way off the topic again!!!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Viewliner II Coaches would be nice though the Upper Level window tier would likely have to be blocked off to allow for luggage racks and to minimize direct sunlight from causing problems with glare and such.

 

[neroden]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

 

[William W.]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

Agreed. The Amfleet cafe cars work well on SD trains, but are completely inadequate for a LD train. I wonder if they could take the Viewliner design and make a SSL type configuration with it (with ceiling windows and chairs facing the windows). Then the Eastern LD trains would finally have parity with the Western trains. Whenever I take an eastern train, I feel trapped within my room, since the cafe car runs of of space quickly, and is quite frankly inferior to my roomette for sightseeing purposes.

Until the heritage baggage cars and diners are replaced, and a sufficient number of sleepers are in place, I don't see this happening, unfortunately.

Ideally, Eastern LD trains should eventually be all Viewliner, just as Western trains are all Superliner. It'll probably take the Amfleets literally disintegrating (that would be a good day, haha) from old age for this to happen though.

 

[Ryan]

A little bird told me Amtrak was picking up another car/cars today.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Was the little bird a Cardinal?

 

[William W.]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, perhaps that explains the 2nd Viewliner on the Cardinal (51) today?

 

[MikefromCrete]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, perhaps that explains the 2nd Viewliner on the Cardinal (51) today?

You mean, somehow Amtrak snuck a Viewliner sleeper from Elmira to NYP without being spotted by railfans? Unlikely. Or is the Viewliner baggage being tested on the Cardinal? Posts on the Cardinal topic indicated that it was a Viewliner sleeper, which, of course, might be ferried to Beech Grove.

 

[William W.]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, perhaps that explains the 2nd Viewliner on the Cardinal (51) today?

You mean, somehow Amtrak snuck a Viewliner sleeper from Elmira to NYP without being spotted by railfans? Unlikely. Or is the Viewliner baggage being tested on the Cardinal? Posts on the Cardinal topic indicated that it was a Viewliner sleeper, which, of course, might be ferried to Beech Grove.

This is what City of Miami said on the "Odd Consist for the Cardinal" thread:

"Today's Cardinal #51 had the now customary consist mentioned, discussed and confirmed above, as well as A SECOND VIEWLINER. Nonetheless, Amtrak says there are 'only' 4 more roomettes available at the price of $450 from Staunton to Chicago.

What appeared to be passengers detrained from both sleepers so it didn't look like a deadhead. Passengers also got on and off the coaches at either end of the Cafe car. They also loaded 8 bags of ice onto the Cafe car which I have not noticed before. Party Train? :help: "

 

[Ryan]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, perhaps that explains the 2nd Viewliner on the Cardinal (51) today?

You mean, somehow Amtrak snuck a Viewliner sleeper from Elmira to NYP without being spotted by railfans? Unlikely. Or is the Viewliner baggage being tested on the Cardinal? Posts on the Cardinal topic indicated that it was a Viewliner sleeper, which, of course, might be ferried to Beech Grove.

Yeah, that would be pretty much impossible.
I was talking about taking delivery of a new one.

 

[Amtrak172]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

Agreed. The Amfleet cafe cars work well on SD trains, but are completely inadequate for a LD train. I wonder if they could take the Viewliner design and make a SSL type configuration with it (with ceiling windows and chairs facing the windows). Then the Eastern LD trains would finally have parity with the Western trains. Whenever I take an eastern train, I feel trapped within my room, since the cafe car runs of of space quickly, and is quite frankly inferior to my roomette for sightseeing purposes.
Until the heritage baggage cars and diners are replaced, and a sufficient number of sleepers are in place, I don't see this happening, unfortunately.

Ideally, Eastern LD trains should eventually be all Viewliner, just as Western trains are all Superliner. It'll probably take the Amfleets literally disintegrating (that would be a good day, haha) from old age for this to happen though.

I actually like the idea of Viewliner sightseer lounges. This would be a good thing especially for the Crescent as it goes over Lake Pontchartrain. The way things seem to be going, Pretty soon, Amtrak's single-level LD trains will be all Viewliner consists.

Amtrak172

 

[William W.]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

Agreed. The Amfleet cafe cars work well on SD trains, but are completely inadequate for a LD train. I wonder if they could take the Viewliner design and make a SSL type configuration with it (with ceiling windows and chairs facing the windows). Then the Eastern LD trains would finally have parity with the Western trains. Whenever I take an eastern train, I feel trapped within my room, since the cafe car runs of of space quickly, and is quite frankly inferior to my roomette for sightseeing purposes.
Until the heritage baggage cars and diners are replaced, and a sufficient number of sleepers are in place, I don't see this happening, unfortunately.

Ideally, Eastern LD trains should eventually be all Viewliner, just as Western trains are all Superliner. It'll probably take the Amfleets literally disintegrating (that would be a good day, haha) from old age for this to happen though.

I actually like the idea of Viewliner sightseer lounges. This would be a good thing especially for the Crescent as it goes over Lake Pontchartrain. The way things seem to be going, Pretty soon, Amtrak's single-level LD trains will be all Viewliner consists.

Amtrak172

I will relish that day. A Viewliner SSL would be great for the Cardinal too. They could also look at putting one on the Adirondack.

 

[Ryan]

That will be great, but it won't be "pretty soon" for any reasonable value of "soon".

 

[Amtrak172]

I would imagine that it wouldn't be for at least 4-5 years because if their looking for those new Siemens locomotives. If Amtrak wants to launch Amtrak America with its own paint scheme for the single-level LD trains, why repaint the Amfleets if they're planning on replacing them? Thats my opinion. That and all Viewliner single-level LD train consists would make Amtrak's trains look good

Amtrak172

 

[PerRock]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

Agreed. The Amfleet cafe cars work well on SD trains, but are completely inadequate for a LD train. I wonder if they could take the Viewliner design and make a SSL type configuration with it (with ceiling windows and chairs facing the windows). Then the Eastern LD trains would finally have parity with the Western trains. Whenever I take an eastern train, I feel trapped within my room, since the cafe car runs of of space quickly, and is quite frankly inferior to my roomette for sightseeing purposes.
Until the heritage baggage cars and diners are replaced, and a sufficient number of sleepers are in place, I don't see this happening, unfortunately.

Ideally, Eastern LD trains should eventually be all Viewliner, just as Western trains are all Superliner. It'll probably take the Amfleets literally disintegrating (that would be a good day, haha) from old age for this to happen though.

I actually like the idea of Viewliner sightseer lounges. This would be a good thing especially for the Crescent as it goes over Lake Pontchartrain. The way things seem to be going, Pretty soon, Amtrak's single-level LD trains will be all Viewliner consists.

Amtrak172

I will relish that day. A Viewliner SSL would be great for the Cardinal too. They could also look at putting one on the Adirondack.

I've been working on designing one, for my own use. I might make it a 3D model for Trainz. I'll do some digging and see if I can't find an old picture somewhere.

Peter

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, perhaps that explains the 2nd Viewliner on the Cardinal (51) today?

You mean, somehow Amtrak snuck a Viewliner sleeper from Elmira to NYP without being spotted by railfans? Unlikely. Or is the Viewliner baggage being tested on the Cardinal? Posts on the Cardinal topic indicated that it was a Viewliner sleeper, which, of course, might be ferried to Beech Grove.

Yeah, that would be pretty much impossible.
I was talking about taking delivery of a new one.

And I was just making a bad pun.

 

[Ryan]

New Viewliners are SERIOUS BUSINESS.

(obviously this didn't happen today - perhaps next week)

 

[Amtrak172]

I want to see a Viewliner II observation/lounge/cafe car. They would be such an improvement over the Amfleet cafes.

Agreed. The Amfleet cafe cars work well on SD trains, but are completely inadequate for a LD train. I wonder if they could take the Viewliner design and make a SSL type configuration with it (with ceiling windows and chairs facing the windows). Then the Eastern LD trains would finally have parity with the Western trains. Whenever I take an eastern train, I feel trapped within my room, since the cafe car runs of of space quickly, and is quite frankly inferior to my roomette for sightseeing purposes.
Until the heritage baggage cars and diners are replaced, and a sufficient number of sleepers are in place, I don't see this happening, unfortunately.

Ideally, Eastern LD trains should eventually be all Viewliner, just as Western trains are all Superliner. It'll probably take the Amfleets literally disintegrating (that would be a good day, haha) from old age for this to happen though.

I actually like the idea of Viewliner sightseer lounges. This would be a good thing especially for the Crescent as it goes over Lake Pontchartrain. The way things seem to be going, Pretty soon, Amtrak's single-level LD trains will be all Viewliner consists.

Amtrak172

I will relish that day. A Viewliner SSL would be great for the Cardinal too. They could also look at putting one on the Adirondack.

I've been working on designing one, for my own use. I might make it a 3D model for Trainz. I'll do some digging and see if I can't find an old picture somewhere.
Peter

Can you please make some Amfleet II's in Phase IVb ? Amfleet I and II cafés too? I can assure you that they will be popular. Will you becoming out with locomotives to go with your Tri-Rail and SunRail packs?

Amtrak172

 

[afigg]

I would imagine that it wouldn't be for at least 4-5 years because if their looking for those new Siemens locomotives. If Amtrak wants to launch Amtrak America with its own paint scheme for the single-level LD trains, why repaint the Amfleets if they're planning on replacing them? Thats my opinion. That and all Viewliner single-level LD train consists would make Amtrak's trains look good

Repainting the Amfleet IIs or, more likely putting new vinyl stripes on is not that big a deal costwise. Unless Congress in the next 2-3 years suddenly provides Amtrak with a lot of funding to buy replacement rolling stock, an order of Viewliner IIs to replace the Amfleet IIs in the near term is unlikely. Amtrak's next major equipment order will be new HSR trainsets for the NEC as the HSR trainsets will generate enough additional revenue to pay off the loan. After that order is underway, funding and placing an order with Siemens for a batch of P-42 locomotive replacements may take priority.

As for a sightseer lounge Viewliner II, i would be surprised if such cars were ordered and built. But a Viewliner II replacement for the Amfleet II diner/cafe car would be a considerable improvement with the dual windows. Start with the Viewliner II diner car, but shrink the kitchen area on one end and put in more tables or observation chairs with small side tables. More cost effective than adding another non-revenue car to the consist.

 

[William W.]

I would imagine that it wouldn't be for at least 4-5 years because if their looking for those new Siemens locomotives. If Amtrak wants to launch Amtrak America with its own paint scheme for the single-level LD trains, why repaint the Amfleets if they're planning on replacing them? Thats my opinion. That and all Viewliner single-level LD train consists would make Amtrak's trains look good

Repainting the Amfleet IIs or, more likely putting new vinyl stripes on is not that big a deal costwise. Unless Congress in the next 2-3 years suddenly provides Amtrak with a lot of funding to buy replacement rolling stock, an order of Viewliner IIs to replace the Amfleet IIs in the near term is unlikely. Amtrak's next major equipment order will be new HSR trainsets for the NEC as the HSR trainsets will generate enough additional revenue to pay off the loan. After that order is underway, funding and placing an order with Siemens for a batch of P-42 locomotive replacements may take priority.

As for a sightseer lounge Viewliner II, i would be surprised if such cars were ordered and built. But a Viewliner II replacement for the Amfleet II diner/cafe car would be a considerable improvement with the dual windows. Start with the Viewliner II diner car, but shrink the kitchen area on one end and put in more tables or observation chairs with small side tables. More cost effective than adding another non-revenue car to the consist.

I would assume that a Viewliner SSL would also have cafe service, just as the Superliner SSLs do. Trying to combine a diner and lounge into one car seems like a bad idea to me (as the Diner-Lites have shown).