Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[neroden]

So we're still waiting for the all-important second round of testing on the bag-dorms, sleepers, and diners. :-( It's been long enough, you'd think they'd have worked out most of the bugs by now...

 

[Thirdrail7]

Four new baggage cars from the most recent delivery were released from Hialeah today, heading north on 98(18) to Washington then on to Chicago.

They are actually going all the way to left coast. Perhaps someone can send you a picture of the move just in case there are any doubters out there and you can post them...next year!

So we're still waiting for the all-important second round of testing on the bag-dorms, sleepers, and diners. :-( It's been long enough, you'd think they'd have worked out most of the bugs by now...

There were a lot of mods.

 

[neroden]

So we're still waiting for the all-important second round of testing on the bag-dorms, sleepers, and diners. :-( It's been long enough, you'd think they'd have worked out most of the bugs by now...

There were a lot of mods.

Makes sense, but it has been *14 months*. You can build a prototype of a ground-up design in 14 months!... it really should come out for testing sometime soon...

 

[Acela150]

It amazes me how impatient people are...

I'd rather have things be tested, sent back for the needed MODS, and then bring them back. Septa screwed this up big time with the SL V's.

 

[StriderGDM]

So we're still waiting for the all-important second round of testing on the bag-dorms, sleepers, and diners. :-( It's been long enough, you'd think they'd have worked out most of the bugs by now...

There were a lot of mods.

Makes sense, but it has been *14 months*. You can build a prototype of a ground-up design in 14 months!... it really should come out for testing sometime soon...

My guess is most of those 14 months, those prototypes have at Elmira doing nothing while the assembly lines were fully setup for the baggage cars.

It's quite possible that they know what mods need to be done and don't feel a need for another round of testing before they start building. And they can't start building until the baggage car lines are done.

 

[neroden]

My guess is most of those 14 months, those prototypes have at Elmira doing nothing while the assembly lines were fully setup for the baggage cars.

It's quite possible that they know what mods need to be done and don't feel a need for another round of testing before they start building. And they can't start building until the baggage car lines are done.

Mmm, that is a possibility. That's a *high risk* possibility, though, because if there *is* a problem with the mods, it means MORE delays. Much better to have done the mods on the prototypes in parallel with the baggage car lines. Requires more workers, however, and I guess CAF might be cheaping out on that.

 

[Agent]

A YouTube acquaintance of mine took this video today of Amtrak #3(22) in Riverside, Illinois with two new Viewliner II baggage cars. They are AMTK 61056 and 61054. There are also two private cars on this Southwest Chief.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

My guess is most of those 14 months, those prototypes have at Elmira doing nothing while the assembly lines were fully setup for the baggage cars.

It's quite possible that they know what mods need to be done and don't feel a need for another round of testing before they start building. And they can't start building until the baggage car lines are done.

Mmm, that is a possibility. That's a *high risk* possibility, though, because if there *is* a problem with the mods, it means MORE delays. Much better to have done the mods on the prototypes in parallel with the baggage car lines. Requires more workers, however, and I guess CAF might be cheaping out on that.

Seems like the completion rate of the baggage cars slowed notably after the May delivery. Some sort of stretch-out after they reached 48 or so, iirc. Makes me think perhaps the CAF plant kept one line for the remainder of the baggage cars, and switched to using the other line for other cars, as per the original stated plan. If so, that could mean they're further along with the latest round of mods on diners, sleepers, and bag-dorms than we might think otherwise.

Sheer speculation, of course. That's sort of what we're left to work with. LOL.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Three more baggage cars heading north on 98 today, then on to Chicago for service out west.

 

[Agent]

This is a video of Amtrak #3(21) with a pair of Viewliner baggage cars filmed by the same person as the video I posted a few days ago. So in two days, four new baggage cars left Chicago to Los Angeles. Does this mean another train is about to start using them?

 

[Agent]

This report says the northbound Coast Starlight left Los Angeles today with a new baggage car (plus a private car).

 

[neroden]

This report says the northbound Coast Starlight left Los Angeles today with a new baggage car (plus a private car).

Not clear to me whether the new baggage car on that was in revenue service or deadheading.

It would make logical sense to convert the Coast Starlight next. Currently, Heritage baggage cars are not handled east of Chicago except possibly for DC (there are reports of the Capitol Limited carrying one sometimes) and Hialeah. Every base west of Chicago still needs to know how to deal with them. Since the Empire Builder is using Viewliner baggage cars, if the Coast Starlight converts, then both Portland and Seattle can forget about Heritage baggage cars entirely. I'd guess the California Zephyr next, since that allows Oakland to forget about Heritage cars -- to allow LA to stop dealing with Heritage cars, you'd have to convert both the Sunset Limited and the Southwest Chief. But it could be in the other order.

 

[TommyBNSF]

Looks like those predictions were right. NB #14 had a new baggage car with no heritage baggage yesterday. The SB still had a heritage baggage that day.

 

[looshi]

This article about the Kansas City Streetcar has a photo from the CAF test track.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/n-america/single-view/view/first-kansas-city-streetcar-on-test.html

In the background, you can make out a number of passenger cars. Can anyone tell what type of cars these are? Are they more baggage cars or the prototype cars from before? The car on the left almost looks like it has a row of Viewliner windows, but I can't be certain.

 

[PerRock]

The angle is wrong to make any assurances as to what they are. The only thing I can say for certain is that the 2nd car on the left is not a straight baggage car.

peter

 

[R30A]

I have seen other photos from the same set. I believe all but one car around the testing LRVs are sleepers. The last one, not visible in this photo is a completed baggage car. I think all the shells are done and have been for a while.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

The Eagle departed Chicago with a Heritage baggage car yesterday. I also saw the eastbound Empire Builder yesterday and it continues to have a new viewliner baggage car.

AR

 

[west point]

Now that it is a new physical year maybe deliveries of view-2s will accelerate.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Now that it is a new physical year maybe deliveries of view-2s will accelerate.

The timing of payments could be a factor, or perhaps was a factor, in the delays.

In that case, if Amtrak wrote a big check (electronic funds transfer, but let's use the old-fashioned terms), on September 25, last Friday, then its reported cash on hand as of the September 30 end of Fiscal Year 2015 will be $10 million less than it could have been. And CAF's cash on hand would be $10 million greater (ignoring CAFs ability to shuffle the funds in the meantime).

So all things being equal, it would make sense for Amtrak to hold any such $10 million payment until Friday, October 2. (With any luck Amtrak could make the deduction from the account happen on Monday, October 5, to capture the float -- or have the banks fixed things so that only banks get the float?)

If that last payment of Fiscal 2016 was actually due about 30 days before (and I think such a delay could happen without bringing a lot of lawyers into the thing), then the two parties could have agreed to a stretch out of payment and delivery. Any hard feelings about a payment coming a month late should be lost in the larger problem of the deliveries being years late.

++++++++

I'm hoping Amtrak is feeling more comfortable about its forecast spending after Sen Schumer's leak that Alstom had bid about $2.5 Billion to build the Acela IIs.

For maybe no good reason, I'd been carrying a rough estimate of $2.7 Billion in my head. Of course, we have no real idea of what all is included in either number, and they may not be comparable at all. But it is a possible reading that the Acela IIs will come in for less than in the preliminary budgeting.

An "extra" $200 million in the budget could make another batch of Viewliner II sleepers look a lot more possible.

 

[A Voice]

An "extra" $200 million in the budget could make another batch of Viewliner II sleepers look a lot more possible.

Amtrak needs Viewliner II coaches and cafe/lounge cars much worse at this point than additional sleepers. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but weren't there only about 85 heritage sleepers circa 1990 (not counting Slumbercoaches); Just ten more than will exist of Viewliner cars shortly.

I think a case could also be made for building some crew dormitory cars for eastern trains which will not utilize the upcoming baggage-dorm Viewliners. This would free space in current sleepers for paying passengers.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

An "extra" $200 million in the budget could make another batch of Viewliner II sleepers look a lot more possible.

Amtrak needs Viewliner II coaches and cafe/lounge cars much worse at this point than additional sleepers.

...

Amtrak should order a few hundred single-level coaches, lounges, cafe cars, whatevers. But that's the way to do it, order hundreds at once.

At this moment, we can order another 20 or 30 Viewliner II sleepers (or bag-dorms, whatevers) from CAF.

But when CAF's open assembly line closes, this opportunity goes away. In the future, an order for another 20 Viewliner II sleepers would be about like an order for 2 more, with the cost difference between handmade cars and mass production models. So it's now or never for more sleepers.

Going for an order for new single-level coaches, well, lessee. A Request for Proposals, some months pass, bids come in and a winner is picked, a prototype is constructed which may or may NOT pass testing, further delays may ensue, production problems arise, delays may ensue, so deliveries may begin years and years after the decision to order more cars is made.

I feel like I've grown old waiting for the lousy 130-car order from CAF.

But now, we could have another 20 or 30 Viewliner II sleepers in operation within two or three years. Then Amtrak will concentrate on getting the Acela II order right and delivered more or less on time.

Reckon the soonest we get new single-level coaches could be .. well, I won't feel old, I'll be dead and gone.

 

[A Voice]

An "extra" $200 million in the budget could make another batch of Viewliner II sleepers look a lot more possible.

Amtrak needs Viewliner II coaches and cafe/lounge cars much worse at this point than additional sleepers.

...

Amtrak should order a few hundred single-level coaches, lounges, cafe cars, whatevers. But that's the way to do it, order hundreds at once.

At this moment, we can order another 20 or 30 Viewliner II sleepers (or bag-dorms, whatevers) from CAF.

But when CAF's open assembly line closes, this opportunity goes away. In the future, an order for another 20 Viewliner II sleepers would be about like an order for 2 more, with the cost difference between handmade cars and mass production models. So it's now or never for more sleepers.

Going for an order for new single-level coaches, well, lessee. A Request for Proposals, some months pass, bids come in and a winner is picked, a prototype is constructed which may or may NOT pass testing, further delays may ensue, production problems arise, delays may ensue, so deliveries may begin years and years after the decision to order more cars is made.

I feel like I've grown old waiting for the lousy 130-car order from CAF.

But now, we could have another 20 or 30 Viewliner II sleepers in operation within two or three years. Then Amtrak will concentrate on getting the Acela II order right and delivered more or less on time.

Reckon the soonest we get new single-level coaches could be .. well, I won't feel old, I'll be dead and gone.

That is also a strong argument why we need a coach and lounge car order (Amfleet II replacements) sooner rather than later; The 'production line' is open right now. You shouldn't need a prototype since the design is already proven and in production, and a coach is will differ from a sleeper primarily just in interior layout; Structurally they would be essentially the same car. Indeed, keeping the production effort going with a coach order would retain the possibility of ordering additional sleepers down the road.

 

[west point]

It would seem there would be no problem of V-2 structure for coaches. However if a V-2 lounge gets rooftop glass like superliner lounges there might be the need for structural work and a test for structural integrity.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The CS should be fully equipped with the new bags by next week...if not sooner.

 

[DCAKen]

It would make logical sense to convert the Coast Starlight next. Currently, Heritage baggage cars are not handled east of Chicago except possibly for DC (there are reports of the Capitol Limited carrying one sometimes) and Hialeah.

I watch the CL go by my office window every day and I haven't seen a Heritage baggage car on it for quite a while..