Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[A Voice]

I wonder if they can get the "delivered but not operating" diners on line this month...

And if CAF can deliver 2 diners a month for the rest of the year.

I can't imagine that the sleepers are that much more difficult to build than than the diners. Haven't most of the problems been with welding and AC? Both of which will be similar in the sleepers, or so I would guess. Even if CAF delivers slowly, it might be worth it to tack another 10-20 sleepers on the order.

Sure, as soon as Amtrak can come up with the money. :-/

There was the option for 30 more cars, but zero word that Amtrak ever (or will ever) exercise it.

I think it would be great if they could, but then the question is, to what point?

How much longer could they make existing trains? (keep in mind with the new sleepers and baggage-dorms, most trains will already see a 50% or more increase in sleeper space).

And, other than perhaps a sleeper on 66/67, and returning something like Three Rivers, where could they use this new equipment?

Unless there's a plan to use it, not necessarily worth buying it.

Heck, as it is, 25 diners will be too much.

Amtrak is chronically short of equipment, with very little or no relief in sight; I don't think finding a use for thirty more cars would exactly be the problem.

Assuming all eastern overnight long-distance trains carry a dining car, 25 Viewliner II diners is about the right number.

Maybe make the Capital Limited a Viewliner train and move the Superliner cars that are freed up to the western LD routes? I am not sure all the coaches are needed but the sleepers are, I believe.

For everyone who suggests this, where do you propose getting the singe-level coaches to equip the Capitol Limited?

 

[George K]

Maybe make the Capital Limited a Viewliner train and move the Superliner cars that are freed up to the western LD routes? I am not sure all the coaches are needed but the sleepers are, I believe.

Per sleeper car you lose 3 bedrooms in a Viewliner, plus the Family Bedroom. You also lose 2 roomettes.

 

[StriderGDM]

I wonder if they can get the "delivered but not operating" diners on line this month...

And if CAF can deliver 2 diners a month for the rest of the year.

I can't imagine that the sleepers are that much more difficult to build than than the diners. Haven't most of the problems been with welding and AC? Both of which will be similar in the sleepers, or so I would guess. Even if CAF delivers slowly, it might be worth it to tack another 10-20 sleepers on the order.

Sure, as soon as Amtrak can come up with the money. :-/

There was the option for 30 more cars, but zero word that Amtrak ever (or will ever) exercise it.

I think it would be great if they could, but then the question is, to what point?

How much longer could they make existing trains? (keep in mind with the new sleepers and baggage-dorms, most trains will already see a 50% or more increase in sleeper space).

And, other than perhaps a sleeper on 66/67, and returning something like Three Rivers, where could they use this new equipment?

Unless there's a plan to use it, not necessarily worth buying it.

Heck, as it is, 25 diners will be too much.

Amtrak is chronically short of equipment, with very little or no relief in sight; I don't think finding a use for thirty more cars would exactly be the problem.

Assuming all eastern overnight long-distance trains carry a dining car, 25 Viewliner II diners is about the right number.

Most of the equipment Amtrak probably needs are coaches.

As for diners, figure 4 for Silver Meteor, 4 for Crescent, 3 for Lake Shore Limited. That's 12.

If you add in 4 more for a returned Silver Star, you're up to 16.

Even if you assume 3-4 for spares (which is lousy utilization) that's 20.

You still have 5 left over.

 

[Ziv]

At 2 cars a month that would only be 24 cars a year. If Amtrak can't find approximately $72Mn a year to build up their fleet of their most profitable cars, they aren't trying hard enough.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If everything stays on course: Blue and Ryan=(2), PennyK=(3)

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a1OSS.gif

Looks like it will up to Ryan & Penny. I think my location will be a washout.

 

[A Voice]

I wonder if they can get the "delivered but not operating" diners on line this month...

And if CAF can deliver 2 diners a month for the rest of the year.

I can't imagine that the sleepers are that much more difficult to build than than the diners. Haven't most of the problems been with welding and AC? Both of which will be similar in the sleepers, or so I would guess. Even if CAF delivers slowly, it might be worth it to tack another 10-20 sleepers on the order.

Sure, as soon as Amtrak can come up with the money. :-/

There was the option for 30 more cars, but zero word that Amtrak ever (or will ever) exercise it.

I think it would be great if they could, but then the question is, to what point?

How much longer could they make existing trains? (keep in mind with the new sleepers and baggage-dorms, most trains will already see a 50% or more increase in sleeper space).

And, other than perhaps a sleeper on 66/67, and returning something like Three Rivers, where could they use this new equipment?

Unless there's a plan to use it, not necessarily worth buying it.

Heck, as it is, 25 diners will be too much.

Amtrak is chronically short of equipment, with very little or no relief in sight; I don't think finding a use for thirty more cars would exactly be the problem.

Assuming all eastern overnight long-distance trains carry a dining car, 25 Viewliner II diners is about the right number.

Most of the equipment Amtrak probably needs are coaches.

As for diners, figure 4 for Silver Meteor, 4 for Crescent, 3 for Lake Shore Limited. That's 12.

If you add in 4 more for a returned Silver Star, you're up to 16.

Even if you assume 3-4 for spares (which is lousy utilization) that's 20.

You still have 5 left over.

The Cardinal.

If it carried a diner, and if it were daily, that represents three more cars. And yes, that's a lot of if's.

 

[Ryan]

So far, we're looking OK....

 

[Lonestar648]

Changing the CL over to single level presents issues and opportunities. As mentioned, each VL sleeper is less 3 Bedrooms, 1 Roomette, and 1 Family Room. Also, the train looses a SSL, and there is no replacement on single level. Instead of three coaches, you need to have four.

This would open the possibility to drop off the rear in Pittsburgh through Coach(s) and Sleeper(s) to Philadelphia and NYP. The Pennsylvanian could have, if available a diner with the additional cars.

All is academic with out increased single level inventory, especially coaches, and speeding up VL production.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

So far, we're looking OK....

Screen Shot 2017-08-02 at 5.23.22 PM.png

Is this a Viewliner II distribution map?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Rain left my area in time for me to catch it. Will try to load my video when I have WiFi.

I was concerned that where I go to see the trains might be inaccessible due to flooding, but it wasn't.

 

[railiner]

Maybe make the Capital Limited a Viewliner train and move the Superliner cars that are freed up to the western LD routes? I am not sure all the coaches are needed but the sleepers are, I believe.

Good idea!Maybe do the same with the Autotrain...Keep the Superliner's on the western trains....

 

[Ziv]

Maybe make the Capital Limited a Viewliner train and move the Superliner cars that are freed up to the western LD routes? I am not sure all the coaches are needed but the sleepers are, I believe.

For everyone who suggests this, where do you propose getting the singe-level coaches to equip the Capitol Limited?

By finding the money to buy more new VL'ers when the current order is completed. With a total budget in excess of $5Bn, surely they can find a way to fork over $72Mn to buy 24 more VL'ers?

Yeah, I am an overly optimistic newbie... LOL!

After I mentioned the idea a couple hours ago I realized that I didn't even know if the Capital Limited would be able to use the existing platforms due to the increased length of a VL'er train of a similar capacity to a SL'er train.

I realize that there is a lot of info about Amtrak that I don't know. So I am aware that my knowledge base is limited, but the stuff that I don't know that I don't know is truly immense. ;-)

 

[PVD]

Had the Midwest bi-levels shown up, we would have plenty of Horizons available to rebuild for single level LD use. They didn't, and at this point, regardless of sleeper or diner availability, single level LD coaches are probably not available to convert CL or CONO, the trains most often talked about. Auto Train is a non starter, if fully sold, the added number of cars required to service the same passenger count would exceed the limit for number of cars allowed on that service. Plus, there is no suitable single level lounge. Remember, it's a discussion group, we all learn from each other at some point.

 

[west point]

"IF" more single level CAF coaches were ordered it would be 2-1/2 to 3 years to even start deliveries. The situation is cratering with demand up against supply now that is especially sleepers. Additional sleepers are up to same constraints. Yes it would be great if Amtrak will exercise its options for 70 additional cars from CAF ------ BUT ? ?.

 

[Ryan]

Meanwhile, in actual Viewliner deliver news, I wait....

The thunder is in the distance and it’s already poured once. 97 can get here anytime...

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

Here's one hypothetical way to get coaches to convert the CL to single level equipment. A previous post stated both sets of equipment would need 4 coaches The addition of new diners to the Lake Shore Limited, Silver Star and Cardinal will free up 9 cafe-lounge cars which could be then converted to long distance coaches. Depending on a negotiation of penalties on the CAF contract, Amtrak could get additional rolling stock complete except for the interiors and finish them out themselves for "prototype LD coaches". Sleeping car shells could be used. The upper windows could be closed up if not needed for a coach configuration.

For example, a Metra press release this year stated that Nippon Sharyo will be completing 7 bilevel coaches for Metra as a part of a settlement on equipment orders at no cost to the railroad.

 

[StriderGDM]

You know, it's the first time I've heard that idea (converting cafe-lounges) to coaches, which makes sense.

So great, now you have enough for one more train. It's a start but...

 

[PVD]

I don't believe you get anything back from SS, it would still carry a lounge car. The LSL and the Card would provide a total of 5 AM 2 Amdinette shells.

 

[PVD]

Actually, I'm pretty certain that around 5 AM-1 cafes were turned into coaches around 5 years ago.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

97_WithTwoNewDiners_ColumbiaCharleston_2017-08-02.mov

Columbia & Charleston

 

[KnightRail]

Maybe make the Capital Limited a Viewliner train and move the Superliner cars that are freed up to the western LD routes? I am not sure all the coaches are needed but the sleepers are, I believe.

At least one barrier to that happening at the present time is single-level coach availability. There just aren't enough Amfleet II coaches available to make three sets under current conditions. That said, this is not a crazy idea.

 

[R30A]

Actually, I'm pretty certain that around 5 AM-1 cafes were turned into coaches around 5 years ago.

A lot more than 5!

27!

 

[DSS&A]

I don't believe you get anything back from SS, it would still carry a lounge car. The LSL and the Card would provide a total of 5 AM 2 Amdinette shells.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

Are there other trains where a dinner could replace an Amdinette to improve service on that train and free up more Amdinette cars for conversion to LD coaches?

 

[PVD]

There are some long day trains where a diner option would (at least in my opinion) make the ride much better. Even operating diner lite style would be an upgrade. The problem is, since there is no dedicated lounge car in single level land, most of those trains are using it (am2 food service cars) as the cafe/lounge car, which would probably need to be retained even if a train added a diner.