Viewliner order awarded to CAF USA

[Joel N. Weber II]

Is there any indication at this point of which types of cars are going to be built first? Are they likely to decide that they can keep some of the Heritage baggage cars rolling a few more years so that the new sleepers can start bringing in more revenue sooner, for example? Or will the bag/dorm cars get priority so that they can simultaneously retire a few Heritage baggage cars while also moving crew members out of the revenue roomettes?

 

[battalion51]

I think that you will still need a full baggage car on most of these trains, except for possibly the Cardinal. They will likely to try to get those Bag/Dorm cars done early as said early to free up revenue space in the existing capacity. However, on a busy train like the Silver Meteor you'd have a rough trip without a full baggage car. The baggage area as part of the dorms will allow for more space on the trains that need it and to help supplement the space lost by the bike racks. You can work your shorts out of the bag/dorm, and keep your longs in the full baggage car to make things simpler. The real question is did they order the full baggage cars like they should be with two full rolling doors, or are we going to see the failed design of the converted coaches in the 1700 series with the roll up doors.

 

[bretton88]

Does anyone think CAF will build a better product than the original viewliners? I sure hope so!

 

[VT Hokie]

Does anyone think CAF will build a better product than the original viewliners? I sure hope so!

I really liked the Viewliners when I took the Crescent a few years ago!

 

[MattW]

With the Viewliner I and IIs being modular, does anyone think Amtrak will use new modules to upgrade the Viewliner Is? Since there's so much grumbling about the toilets in roomettes, if the modules are the same fittings, then couldn't Amtrak slide in new no-toilet modules in the old cars?

 

[battalion51]

I want to say the module concept worked for building them, but for maintenance failed epically. IIRC the original intent was to be able to have mechanical be able to slide in and out rooms for maintenance purposes, rather than making the entire car bad ordered. Well, like the modular rooms at Disney's Contemporary Resort, the rooms settled, and ain't going nowhere.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I want to say the module concept worked for building them, but for maintenance failed epically. IIRC the original intent was to be able to have mechanical be able to slide in and out rooms for maintenance purposes, rather than making the entire car bad ordered. Well, like the modular rooms at Disney's Contemporary Resort, the rooms settled, and ain't going nowhere.

The Modular concept was only for construction, once the module plug was welded into carbody that was it.

 

[daveyb99]

Rumor has it that the design is very similar to the current Viewliners but the sinks and toilets have been removed from the roomettes.

If this is true, then I might ride one.....

 

[spacecadet]

I wonder if there's going to be any way to differentiate these when booking a train, if the new ones don't have toilets in-room. I imagine some people don't like the toilets but others do, and if there's one car of each type on a train, I just wonder if you'll be able to book a room with a toilet or without.

I realize it's far too early to answer this, I'm just wondering out loud.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

I wonder if there's going to be any way to differentiate these when booking a train, if the new ones don't have toilets in-room. I imagine some people don't like the toilets but others do, and if there's one car of each type on a train, I just wonder if you'll be able to book a room with a toilet or without.

I realize it's far too early to answer this, I'm just wondering out loud.

Probably no way to tell, the ticketing process has no way to know how they're building a trainset. Especially as far out as a lot of us book.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Modular concept was only for construction, once the module plug was welded into carbody that was it.

Where did you get that fairytale from, Dutch? They are bolted into place, no welding was ever done. I know you're usually well informed, but in this case you're far off base, according to every source I have ever heard. I can believe what Batalion51 says, however.

Of course, if you have hard evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.

 

[WMJ_NJ]

I am willing to bet that we will not see Eastern LD trains running with additional sleepers when these new cars are released. Instead I think you will see the old Viewliners rotated out for refurbishment. If they decide to add sleepers or even new routes it will be some time later.

I for one don't have a problem with toilets in the rooms. Just my opinion.

Bill

 

[user 1215]

I wonder if there's going to be any way to differentiate these when booking a train, if the new ones don't have toilets in-room. I imagine some people don't like the toilets but others do, and if there's one car of each type on a train, I just wonder if you'll be able to book a room with a toilet or without.

I realize it's far too early to answer this, I'm just wondering out loud.

Here's a paradox - I think that the toilets in the roomettes are cool, but I hate them. Get 'em out! Last time I was in a Viewliner sleeper, I found that the doors are not all that private (acoustic) and that the rooms aren't properly ventilated for a toilet. Besides that, you have to kick your roommate out whenever you want to use the loo...

Well kept, nice public use toilets in the new Viewliner IIs should be adequate.

 

[user 1215]

Are the Viewliners really as old as or older than the Amfleets? When are they gonna replace those? I'm all for a uniform-looking, consistent consist.

The existing cafe/business class cars could stand a replacement as well. And, back to an old subject, I'd like to see BC on trains that have sleepers.

Hey - so long as we're all in the same dream...

 

[lyke99]

Are the Viewliners really as old as or older than the Amfleets? When are they gonna replace those? I'm all for a uniform-looking, consistent consist.

The existing cafe/business class cars could stand a replacement as well. And, back to an old subject, I'd like to see BC on trains that have sleepers.

Hey - so long as we're all in the same dream...

The Viewliners are newer than the Amfleets. The sleepers are not replacements, they are to augment the current fleet. The dining and baggage cars are to replace heritage fleet cars. The baggage-dorms are for getting crew out of rooms in the Viewliner sleepers. Since sleeping car passengers make up 15% of the long distance travelers and produce 36% of the revenue, making more rooms available is real plus.

 

[alanh]

Essentially this is the other half (or 3/4) of the Viewliner order that's been hanging out there since the mid-1990s. The intent at the time was to retire all the heritage cars, but they only had enough money for 52 sleepers. This left them with the aging diners and baggage cars, and short on sleepers once the heritage sleepers were retired.

Here's an article from 1987 that describes the original plan.

 

[battalion51]

The Modular concept was only for construction, once the module plug was welded into carbody that was it.

Where did you get that fairytale from, Dutch? They are bolted into place, no welding was ever done. I know you're usually well informed, but in this case you're far off base, according to every source I have ever heard. I can believe what Batalion51 says, however.

Of course, if you have hard evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it.

I think it might be halfway. I could be messing up my modulars. The original intent I believe was to be able to move them in and out as necessary, but they may have welded them down when things didn't work out in the test bed (no pun intended).

 

[nferr]

I wonder if there's going to be any way to differentiate these when booking a train, if the new ones don't have toilets in-room. I imagine some people don't like the toilets but others do, and if there's one car of each type on a train, I just wonder if you'll be able to book a room with a toilet or without.

I realize it's far too early to answer this, I'm just wondering out loud.

Here's a paradox - I think that the toilets in the roomettes are cool, but I hate them. Get 'em out! Last time I was in a Viewliner sleeper, I found that the doors are not all that private (acoustic) and that the rooms aren't properly ventilated for a toilet. Besides that, you have to kick your roommate out whenever you want to use the loo...

Well kept, nice public use toilets in the new Viewliner IIs should be adequate.

So instead of having your own private toilet you prefer one toilet shared by what twelve roomettes? No thanks. I like having a private sink and toilet in my room. I really hope this rumor is a bad one. Huge step backwards. If anything just put one public toilet in the car for those that are traveling two in a roomette and need privacy. If you're traveling alone the private sink and toilet is much better and convenient.

 

[battalion51]

I won't argue on the sink front. I think the fact that it's your only choice makes it tough. My girlfriend flipped when she found out the toilet was in the room (definitely waited until we were in the room to tell her that one). I think if the shower room were configured to where it's available there as an option if you don't want to use the one in your room you'd probably hit a happy medium. You wouldn't be required to kick out your companion to have some privacy in taking care of business. As it is now, that trek back to the coaches can be not so fun if you don't want to do that in the room.

 

[TVRM610]

I won't argue on the sink front. I think the fact that it's your only choice makes it tough. My girlfriend flipped when she found out the toilet was in the room (definitely waited until we were in the room to tell her that one). I think if the shower room were configured to where it's available there as an option if you don't want to use the one in your room you'd probably hit a happy medium. You wouldn't be required to kick out your companion to have some privacy in taking care of business. As it is now, that trek back to the coaches can be not so fun if you don't want to do that in the room.

AMEN! Especially when your in the FIRST viewliner, on a Silver Trains with THREE viewliners, and its the middle of the night, and the Conductors stare at you like your crazy when you go through the diner, and the lounge, to get to a coach, where the restroom is busy, so you go to the next coach, ha. ok i might be exagerating a bit.

 

[NE933]

Sickening. It's uterly toxic and poison the attacks Amtrak and it's passengers took for over 23 years, the amount of time the Viewliner fleet was designed to what we have now. Intentions were in place to have 500 of them -- and what do we got? 50. All the issues of not having enough capacity and redundancy in place when a replacement car is needed right away should another get bad ordered, shortened consists, would never be if the full deployment was funded and allowed to proceed.

One of the hidden factoids about the Viewliner that has given it the status of legends (sort of like bigfoot and UFO's) is the blueprint for a lounge version. Those who have seen or worked on it's design, of a car destined to not get built 'til this day, say it would be spectacular. The elements of the Superliner sightseer lounges, namely the windows that wrap the floor thru part of the roof, along with innovative and attractive seating, would blow our minds away. Maybe, just maybe, we'll see it in our lifetimes..?

 

[user 1215]

Frankly, lounges don't produce revenue. The cafe car in the lounge does. But does it cover the cost to pull it? And pay the person to run it?

 

[printman2000]

Not sure where this quote came from but I have seen it referenced on a couple of other boards by Joseph Boardman...

The specification gives the builder the flexibility for enhancements and upgrades, but we did not require the cars to have the same shape.

 

[MattW]

Frankly, lounges don't produce revenue. The cafe car in the lounge does. But does it cover the cost to pull it? And pay the person to run it?

But does not having a lounge reduce the overall revenue because people won't ride if they can't get anytime-food service?

 

[battalion51]

The only true non-revenue things in a consist are a locomotive (obviously a necessity), baggage car, and dorm car. The Diners typically do not make much money since their primary customer is sleeping car passengers who have their meals included. There is a small amount of revenue produced by sales of alcohol and sales to coach passengers. Overall I would argue that the lounge produces more revenue and lower direct expenses since it only takes one man to work it, more hours available to make sales, and everyone has to pay regardless of class of service. Granted the lounges are probably losing money overall, but its a necessity to remain competitive in the marketplace.