What is happening to the SWC route?

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Back to the SWC. As one who lives in southern New Mexico (where the Rail Runner will never even dream of approaching), and being in a place with NO mass transit (can't drive to Alb to get on the train? Good luck.) and with the only other option being the Sunset Limited and its 3 day a week service with no way to get points east of New Orleans without a convoluted route, the SWC is my main train route west and sometimes east. I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed? BTW, everytime I take this route the Raton station is bustling much more than others..especially during the high Boy Scout time and campers going to Philmont.
Just curious of your opinion, but if you were dictator of New Mexico and had the money, would you rather save the current SWC route, or allow the change and instead extend Rail Runner down to El Paso, assuming only one coa was possible?
 
Another article on this tour...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/10/4229732/amtrak-ceo-to-stop-in-new-mexico.html

New Mexico Transportation Department spokeswoman Melissa Dosher said no official from Gov. Susana Martinez's administration plans to meet with Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman because the agency didn't learn of the tour until receiving a news release from the rail operator Thursday morning.



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/10/4229732/amtrak-ceo-to-stop-in-new-mexico.html#storylink=cpy
 
Another article...

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/martinez-may-skip-amtrak-ceo-s-whistle-stop-tour/article_59f6351f-4eab-552e-a730-956cd884fbca.html

It includes and official Amtrak statement on Albuquerque and if it will be served with a reroute...

Direct service to Albuquerque also could be lost if the Southwest Chief is rerouted, according to Magliari. The current track configuration from Texas to New Mexico — the likely course of a reroute if one is necessary — would provide service to Belen, south of Albuquerque, but not directly into the state’s largest city.
“There would have to be some discussion about some kind of track layout change and whether that makes sense or is affordable,” Magliari said.
This could just be Amtrak making a reroute seem worse to try and pry money out of the states hands, but it is the only official word on this that I remember reading.
 
I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed?
(previous route from California to Albuquerque)

Albuquerque (station stop),

Belen (probably NOT a stop),

Fort Sumner,

Clovis NM (likely station stop),

Hereford TX,

Canyon,

Amarillo (likely station stop),

Pampa,

Canadian TX,

Woodward OK,

Alva OK,

Kiowa KS,

Harper,

Wellington,

Mulvane,

Wichita (likely station stop),

Newton

(previous route from Newton to KC)

If you live in southeastern NM (Carlsbad, Roswell), a Clovis station might be a real improvement for you. If you live in Las Cruces, the change is probably a wash for you.
 
Another article...

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/martinez-may-skip-amtrak-ceo-s-whistle-stop-tour/article_59f6351f-4eab-552e-a730-956cd884fbca.html

It includes and official Amtrak statement on Albuquerque and if it will be served with a reroute...

Direct service to Albuquerque also could be lost if the Southwest Chief is rerouted, according to Magliari. The current track configuration from Texas to New Mexico — the likely course of a reroute if one is necessary — would provide service to Belen, south of Albuquerque, but not directly into the state’s largest city.
“There would have to be some discussion about some kind of track layout change and whether that makes sense or is affordable,” Magliari said.
This could just be Amtrak making a reroute seem worse to try and pry money out of the states hands, but it is the only official word on this that I remember reading.
This is ridiculousness on the part of Amtrak's spokesman. I do not like this Magliari.

NM has specifically entered a line item in its state rail plan to wye the SW Chief near ABQ in the event of a reroute -- while *nobody* has even considered building a new station siding and platform at Belen (which would be necessary to stop at Belen see below). That means the SW Chief will continue to serve ABQ.

That said, I wouldn't have an objection to a Belen transfer station, as it would make the Calfornia-Chicago trip a good hour shorter, maybe several hours if the layover time could be shortened. But it would be an expensive station, since the RailRunner platform and track cannot be used, and BNSF won't want the train sitting on the mainline -- so it would require a passenger siding and a new platform. Given the heavy usage, it would also require a new station building. Rehabilitating the wye near Albquerque will cost a fraction of that, so that's what will happen.

Also from the article:

“We want to continue the dialogue because we’re trying to reach a conclusion,” Magliari said. “We need to know a way forward by the end of 2015, because it’s going to take us a while to get the arrangements made to reroute the train.”
Oh, come on, *******. You gave the deadline for the existing route states to commit money as the end of 2014. Stick with that deadline, *****. Start talking to Amarillo and Wichita and Albuquerque. I will lay bets that the money for the stations on the new route will come pouring out pretty damn fast. Stop fooling around with the clowns on the Raton route.

The article also makes it clear that Martinez is not going to commit any funding to the Raton Pass route, let alone the amount needed; her government is even ignoring the promotional train.

The $3.4 million to rehabilitate the wye at ABQ -- that, NM might be willing to spend (it would be in state government hands afterwards).
 
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I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed?
(previous route from California to Albuquerque)

Albuquerque (station stop),

Belen (probably NOT a stop),

Fort Sumner,

Clovis NM (likely station stop),

Hereford TX,

Canyon,

Amarillo (likely station stop),

Pampa,

Canadian TX,

Woodward OK,

Alva OK,

Kiowa KS,

Harper,

Wellington,

Mulvane,

Wichita (likely station stop),

Newton

(previous route from Newton to KC)

If you live in southeastern NM (Carlsbad, Roswell), a Clovis station might be a real improvement for you. If you live in Las Cruces, the change is probably a wash for you.
Amarillo would be, at minimum, a crew change stop. Though the city has already shown support for the reroute by the purchase of the Santa Fe depot with hopes of using it again.
 
Scare tactics. And I'm not suprised one bit that Amtrak doesn't know how to communicate with the NM administration. And I'm not suprised that the NM Administration doesn't know how to communicate with Amtrak. It is one of the most politcally corrupt states that I have ever lived in (other stuff not related to rail - beautiful state, but I'm happy to be away from there!).

Quite frankly, I believe the reroute will happen and ABQ will get the Wye. If ABQ is dropped, you can all but count the Southwest Chief gone.
 
Albuquerque is a given if the SWC is to survive! Spending millions to make Belen a stop makes no sense! If NM is willing to put money into the Y and other track improvements in ABQ that's a no brainer!

Much as I like history and nostslgia. The obscene amount of money it would take to satisy BNSF to retain the Raton route and that the States won't fund and that Amtrak doesn't have, makes the Southern Transcona re-route a

Natural!

Picking up Amarillo. Witchits and Clovis as stops is a sure fire winner for Amtrak, even if the scenery sucks! (Apologies to our Panhandle friends!)

If you haven't ridden the SWC over Raton Pass . do it ASAP, it will be gone with the wind after next year!!!
 
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Amarillo would be, at minimum, a crew change stop. Though the city has already shown support for the reroute by the purchase of the Santa Fe depot with hopes of using it again.
The fact that the City of Amarillo spent $2.6 million on the depot ("and surrounding six acres") *preemptively* and out of their own budget, makes me believe that they will spend what it takes to get a platform, even if it's fairly expensive.
Wichita has been less committed in terms of money, but the city has been actively pushing the Heartland Flyer extension and there's a local advocacy group pushing it too. And the station there is now in the hands of an explicitly passenger-rail-friendly developer. I think there's fairly good odds that they'd spring for the renovation costs out of local money (probably with an eye towards prepping the station for the Heartland Flyer too).
 
Usually you can trust Amtrak to clutch defeat out of the jaws of victory and make it their own. The proceed to the usual victimhood whining. Maybe they are just warming upto that usual course on this one too. I just am afraid, very afraid , what the defeat that they might eventually cling onto might look like this time.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
This was on the local news tonight. Last time I was on the SWC I counted the number of passengers that got on or off the train between Newton & Albuquerque. Not only were there less than a dozen but it was some of the worst track I've ever been on. Seems like it would be cheaper to pass out free bus tickets & leave that section of track to the cargo trains.

http://ksn.com/2014/07/11/amtrak-tour-stops-in-kansas/
 
Pictures of Amtrak Special @ Topeka, Ks. 7/11/14. Not the best pictures, they were taken with a cell phone.
IMG_2016.jpg
 
I agree with Ryan! The pics are nice and show clearly that having an all Viewliner consist would be better both in appearance and for streamlining!
 
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When places like Wichita and Amarillo haven't had passenger train service in over 43 years, it is difficult to get people to ride trains, again. The market that used the San Francisco Chief until April 30, 1971 is long gone. The average person even in cities with passenger train service doesn't even know it exists or where the station is unless they are in areas with frequent train service like the NEC, or some of the other corridors in the Midwest or West. Yes, there will be die hard rail fans that will be pleased with change, but they cannot cause a train to have the required patronage.
That is not necessarily true. Due to the elimination of the Wright Amendment there are less flights in and out of Rick Husband Intr. so flights are not required to stop in Amarillo and can have direct connections from big city to big city so this will more than likely be an instance where train travel is a very important part of the transportation in Amarillo. I know that it will also depend on other cities on the route but for Amarillo it is almost ideal for trains and you can almost bet that Amarillo and Wichita will promote the Chief in their cities and possibly farther out away from the metro.
 
The proposed service change through Amarillo is certainly worth considering. However, it is likely that some people haven't considered the value of serving Colorado and more cities in Kansas. Actually, the greater Colorado Springs area including Pueblo has at least a population of 600,000 people which is quite sizeable and therefore a prime target market for Amtrak. Colorado is a growing state and improved rail service would benefit many and serving COS would benefit Amtrak.

Consider for example, a proposed service change for the SWC running from Kansas City to Raton, NM on the former Rock Island route. There are formidable cities on that line including westbound from KCY, Lawrence, Manhattan, Topeka, Junction City, Abilene, Salina, Russell, Hays and Goodland, KS, Burlington and Limon, CO and on into Colorado Springs. The previous connection from Limon to COS is now a bike-path for a portion of the distance so a rebuild and sharing of space with the bike path would be needed.

But there is a solution:

It appears that a number of $500 million was mentioned for the SWC restoration project in Colorado and Kansas. A question is would the rebuilding of the RI route from Limon to COS cost about $70 million? After the proposed rebuilding of that line from Limon, could not multiple Class ! carriers share the line with Amtrak into Colorado Springs, making a convenient Kansas City connection for several railroads?

With a proposed new extension to Limon, a very substantial increase in Amtrak service to new communities could be presented and grown. The former SWC cities La Junta, Dodge City, Hutchinson and more could be serviced as a bus tie-in to Amtrak services. The Heartland Flyer service could be extended to Topeka or Emporia and KCY to create a link to Texas and a link to Kansas towns without Amtrak services.

This is an idea that should be debated and considered.
 
even if the scenery sucks! (Apologies to our Panhandle friends!)It
It just depends on your taste. However we do have our own beauty with our sunsets, golden fields of grain and wind turbine farms. Also not the whole route is as flat as most people think as most of the route between Wichita and Amarillo goes through the Canadian River water breaks and looks much like the Abo Canyon area and eastern Cajon Pass. I just want to throw that out there.
 
Notice how the train has two locomotives, as opposed to one (it's not like a four car train should need two locomotives, right?). I'm sure that the optics wouldn't be great if a train with only one crapped out in the middle of nowhere, with the CEO onboard. Then again, the optics of the Texas Eagle breaking down all the time can't be good either...
 
The proposed service change through Amarillo is certainly worth considering. However, it is likely that some people haven't considered the value of serving Colorado and more cities in Kansas. Actually, the greater Colorado Springs area including Pueblo has at least a population of 600,000 people which is quite sizeable and therefore a prime target market for Amtrak. Colorado is a growing state and improved rail service would benefit many and serving COS would benefit Amtrak.

Consider for example, a proposed service change for the SWC running from Kansas City to Raton, NM on the former Rock Island route. There are formidable cities on that line including westbound from KCY, Lawrence, Manhattan, Topeka, Junction City, Abilene, Salina, Russell, Hays and Goodland, KS, Burlington and Limon, CO and on into Colorado Springs. The previous connection from Limon to COS is now a bike-path for a portion of the distance so a rebuild and sharing of space with the bike path would be needed.

But there is a solution:

It appears that a number of $500 million was mentioned for the SWC restoration project in Colorado and Kansas. A question is would the rebuilding of the RI route from Limon to COS cost about $70 million? After the proposed rebuilding of that line from Limon, could not multiple Class ! carriers share the line with Amtrak into Colorado Springs, making a convenient Kansas City connection for several railroads?

With a proposed new extension to Limon, a very substantial increase in Amtrak service to new communities could be presented and grown. The former SWC cities La Junta, Dodge City, Hutchinson and more could be serviced as a bus tie-in to Amtrak services. The Heartland Flyer service could be extended to Topeka or Emporia and KCY to create a link to Texas and a link to Kansas towns without Amtrak services.

This is an idea that should be debated and considered.
That is an interesting proposal. The route you described is mainly over the UP's former Kansas Pacific line, except for the short portion from Limon to Colorado Springs. The former Rock Island line from Omaha to Limon (and on to Colorado Springs, as you mentioned), is mostly gone. The former Rocky Mountain Rocket used that line to reach Colorado Springs, and Denver (half the train split away at Limon and utilized UP trackage rights).

There is another problem with your proposal....the train would have to use a portion of the freight-clogged Joint Line to go south from Colorado Springs to Pueblo. And since you mentioned serving major markets, how could they run a train that way, and miss hitting Denver, only 65 miles north? They might as well just use the UP from Limon into Denver, and then go south on the Joint Line, They would not have to worry about rebuilding the abandoned portion. Only worry about fighting to use the Joint Line. Perhaps they could use the available government support to restore the Joint Line to full double track, in that case. But the proposal would also lengthen the schedule considerably between Kansas City and Raton....

Another thing to consider, is that the Zephyr and the Chief would geographically run relatively close to one another for a good portion of their run. With a huge portion of the country unserved between the Chief and Sunset routes. The proposed reroute on the Transcon line, would more equitably cover that 'gap'.
 
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Back to the SWC. As one who lives in southern New Mexico (where the Rail Runner will never even dream of approaching), and being in a place with NO mass transit (can't drive to Alb to get on the train? Good luck.) and with the only other option being the Sunset Limited and its 3 day a week service with no way to get points east of New Orleans without a convoluted route, the SWC is my main train route west and sometimes east. I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed? BTW, everytime I take this route the Raton station is bustling much more than others..especially during the high Boy Scout time and campers going to Philmont.
Just curious of your opinion, but if you were dictator of New Mexico and had the money, would you rather save the current SWC route, or allow the change and instead extend Rail Runner down to El Paso, assuming only one coa was possible?
Wow..I'd love to see the Rail Runner extend to cover the whole North South corridor of NM. Considering what I saw as extreme drama and slowness in getting even the small route it currently runs, that is impossible to see ever really happening. I don't think the change is awful..but the Raton pass is a great trip and would be sorry to see it go. Why can't they just substitute Belen for for Alb? Do they need to use that track that exits Alb to get to LA? Actually, getting to Belen is a bit shorter for me, so that's fine in that sense. My biggest AMTRAK gripe is the Sunset Limited and its true to its name Limited service, and the fact that they never re established a route from New Orleans to Florida. That is a huge gap in country coverage that I think needs to be addressed.
 
I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed?
(previous route from California to Albuquerque)

Albuquerque (station stop),

Belen (probably NOT a stop),

Fort Sumner,

Clovis NM (likely station stop),

Hereford TX,

Canyon,

Amarillo (likely station stop),

Pampa,

Canadian TX,

Woodward OK,

Alva OK,

Kiowa KS,

Harper,

Wellington,

Mulvane,

Wichita (likely station stop),

Newton

(previous route from Newton to KC)

If you live in southeastern NM (Carlsbad, Roswell), a Clovis station might be a real improvement for you. If you live in Las Cruces, the change is probably a wash for you.
I'm in Alamogordo, about 60 miles from Las Cruces, so Belen would be OK..
 
In regards to other proposals, I've always supported the north-south line (El Paso-ABQ-Pueblo-Denver-Fort Collins-Cheyenne) but it has gotten no traction. It is not appropriate to try to shoehorn north-south service into an east-west route; it merely creates degraded service in both directions.
 
At this point I suggest that anyone in Amarillo or Wichita, or who plans to travel to either city, should write to Amtrak to show the extent of the market demand. But I'm not sure who to write to (I suppose one could write direct to Boardman).
 
When places like Wichita and Amarillo haven't had passenger train service in over 43 years, it is difficult to get people to ride trains, again. The market that used the San Francisco Chief until April 30, 1971 is long gone. The average person even in cities with passenger train service doesn't even know it exists or where the station is unless they are in areas with frequent train service like the NEC, or some of the other corridors in the Midwest or West. Yes, there will be die hard rail fans that will be pleased with change, but they cannot cause a train to have the required patronage.
That is not necessarily true. Due to the elimination of the Wright Amendment there are less flights in and out of Rick Husband Intr. so flights are not required to stop in Amarillo and can have direct connections from big city to big city so this will more than likely be an instance where train travel is a very important part of the transportation in Amarillo. I know that it will also depend on other cities on the route but for Amarillo it is almost ideal for trains and you can almost bet that Amarillo and Wichita will promote the Chief in their cities and possibly farther out away from the metro.
Checking SWA, there are no longer any flights direct to Amarillo from Houston. All seem to go through Dallas and take 3hrs. It's actually faster to fly to KC than Amarillo. Getting back to the route, they should have done this re-route years ago as the population is much greater on the Transcon and if you throw in a thru-way bus to Lubbock it's 1.2 million vs 300k(w/Santa Fe). The scenery is not that much different. Raton isn't that great.
 
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