Ryan
Court Jester
It's not inferior for the people that live along it.
What is happening to the SWC route?
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Its called Politics and with State and Local Funding of Rail now being the Hot Thing right now they're doing bridge building!
Wonder if the VIPs ate riding around like Royalty in Beech Grove or are actually on the Chief interacting with Passengers and Employees???
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printman2000
Engineer
The story states they will be leaving Topeka at 9:00am and heading West. That is not the Southwest Chief schedule. I am also pretty sure I saw the Beech Grove on an Eastern train right now. I am guessing they will be using a BNSF business train for this trip. But that is just a guess.
The story is confusing as it says they will be on the SWC in the first paragraph but as you said it does say they will leave @ 9am and make special stops in several towns along the route so a BNSF Special does make sense!
And isn't it good to see Joe Boardman and a BNSF VIP cooperating on this? Perhaps they'll discuss the Hi- Line Mess while aboard also!
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yarrow
Engineer
or perhaps they will just sip wine and nibble on cheese
T
the Duck
Guest
Its a money raising scheme. Go back to the beginning--- 1. BNSF orginal intent was end east/west tracks at La Junta, Co 2.abandon stretch between La Junta and Trinidad--severe it and take it out. 3. sell off portion from lamy to Trinidad. Sounds like plan might have changed or else reroute is fixing to happen. Note that Newton is in this time. Never before has Newton, KS been included in reroute talks. Raises question "Is Kansas going to be punished for not coming up with money?
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Kansas would probably benefit from the reroute on a people served basis. Your losing a bunch of empty podunks and picking up the large city of Witchita.
neroden
Engineer
Yeah, but there are fewer of them, and it's inferior for the people living in Wichita and Amarillo.
The total number of people living along the entire route to be bypassed is less than the population of Amarillo. A lot less. By city population, Amarillo -- 195K; every city on the bypassed route together -- roughly 135K.
On top of that, about 30% of the bypassed population (42K) is in Hutchinson, only 30 miles from Newton and only 42 miles from Wichita. Since I have to drive 60 miles to get to the nearest train station, I have relatively little sympathy for them if they get bypassed.
Every other city on the route is smaller.
You get slightly different numbers if you look at metro areas rather than cities. Hutchinson goes up to 64K; the total for the to-be-bypassed route goes up to 190K; but this favors Amarillo by the same amount, because Amarillo's metro area has 250K.
And I haven't even considered Wichita, which would benefit greatly from restoring its downtown station.
If the little cities on the route can raise the money to maintain the route, then more power to them, since service goes to those who make it happen -- but *they can't*. They've had several years to do so and they haven't come *close*.
I look forward to visiting beautiful downtown Wichita and Amarillo. ;-)
MikefromCrete
Engineer
Wichita and Amarillo _ always on the top 10 places to visit in the USA! You also have to take into account that the SWC will lose the Boy Scout traffic; Santa Fe, a real tourist attraction, will be harder to reach, and Albuquerque will be on dead end detour. And, of course, the scenery on the new route will be nothing to brag about.
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printman2000
Engineer
neroden
Engineer
Eh, Santa Fe won't be that much harder to reach, though it might be worth tweaking the schedule to allow a connection from the southbound weekend RailRunners. And honestly, I've heard some pretty good things about the scenery in eastern New Mexico (Abo Canyon, for example); I suppose it's a matter of taste.
The Chief
Lead Service Attendant
Lotsa elitist-sounding shots at population centers on this key legacy route in Kansas.
Shall they examine the Empire Builder pop base in say Montana and North Dakota?
Didn't realize there were so many flyover types on here.
geographic edit. whoops. TY JayPea
Shall they examine the Empire Builder pop base in say Montana and North Dakota?
Didn't realize there were so many flyover types on here.
geographic edit. whoops. TY JayPea
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If the EB is running through South Dakota, no wonder it's having all sorts of timekeeping problems. 
Yeah, running the Builder through South Dakota sure would account for some the major delays and loss of passengers! LOL
printman2000
Engineer
Info about the special from Trainorders...
Currently scheduled with the following Amtrak equipment: 145, 822, 62049-Winter View, 10021-Pacific Cape, 10001-Beech Grove, 10031-Ocean View, & 10004-American View.
Friday, July 11, 2014-Train 991 departs Kansas City 630a, Topeka arrive 805a/dp 9am, Newton 1105a/1110a, Hutchinson 1150a/1155a, Dodge City 140p/145p, Garden City 240p/245p, Lamar 250p/255p, ar LaJunta 405p.
Saturday, July 12, 2014-Train 993 departs LaJunta 9a, Trinidad 1020a/1035a, Raton 1135a/1150a, Springer 1235p/3p (meet with Philmont Scout Ranch representatives), Las Vegas 430p/5p, Lamy 7p/715p, ar Albuquerque 830p.
Cars/Engines depart Chicago on train 3 Thursday, July 10 and depart Albuquerque on train 4 Sunday, July 13.
Currently scheduled with the following Amtrak equipment: 145, 822, 62049-Winter View, 10021-Pacific Cape, 10001-Beech Grove, 10031-Ocean View, & 10004-American View.
Friday, July 11, 2014-Train 991 departs Kansas City 630a, Topeka arrive 805a/dp 9am, Newton 1105a/1110a, Hutchinson 1150a/1155a, Dodge City 140p/145p, Garden City 240p/245p, Lamar 250p/255p, ar LaJunta 405p.
Saturday, July 12, 2014-Train 993 departs LaJunta 9a, Trinidad 1020a/1035a, Raton 1135a/1150a, Springer 1235p/3p (meet with Philmont Scout Ranch representatives), Las Vegas 430p/5p, Lamy 7p/715p, ar Albuquerque 830p.
Cars/Engines depart Chicago on train 3 Thursday, July 10 and depart Albuquerque on train 4 Sunday, July 13.
neroden
Engineer
Bluntly, I have a friend in Bismarck, and I don't have one in Minot, so I'd much prefer the NCH route to the EB route. This isn't just my personal bias, though: *Bismarck is higher population than Minot* so it's more likely for someone to be in my position than not.
It's actually elitist by definition to preference a few small towns over larger cities. It means you're preferencing a small elite over a larger unserved population.
Higher population is nearly always the right choice for a railroad route. There's something to be said for stopping at universities, cities with poor road service, etc. -- places which "punch above their weight" in terms of ridership. And since rail service is inherently a political matter, if one route has much more political support than another, then that's fine, go for it -- political support is also a sign that people will ride. The Devil's Lake towns managed to round up the political support; good for them. And they did it without much out-of-state support.
But here the political support seems to be quite the opposite: none of the three states have committed money, New Mexico actually reneged on the purchase of the line, Colorado is really only interested in serving Pueblo (which certainly should have service... to Denver), and the moderate-sized cities in Kansas have put in only token efforts. There seems to be more effort being made in Emporia, frankly.
If the cities along the line can't come up with the money, or the Congressional support, or the state government support, then frankly, Amtrak should go where the people are. It would be different if Amarillo or Wichita didn't want the rail service, but they *do* want it. Heck, for a random example, we have an Amarillo passenger train advocate on this board. I don't see a single member here from any town from Hutchinson through Lamy.
The cities of Amarillo and Wichita have been told that Amtrak and BNSF will not talk to them until the end of the year. I hope they are ready to push hard for service and have earnest money to show for it when the new year comes. The cities on the existing route certainly haven't been.
Amtrak always faces political threats and financial threats. The route with more population should be presumed to generate more political support *and* more money, all else equal; and nothing has rebutted that presumption in this case (unlike the Devil's Lake case).
Pretty fancy consist for the VIPs but maybe showing the Amtrak Flag, so to speak,will help drum up interest across the Prairies!
I just hope that Mr Boardman and his aides actually climb aboard the Chief, talk with the passengers and crew and eat in the Diner!!!!
I just hope that Mr Boardman and his aides actually climb aboard the Chief, talk with the passengers and crew and eat in the Diner!!!!
XHRTSP
Lead Service Attendant
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Sorry if this was already covered, but how would timelnes compare with the new route to the old? ie will it be a faster run from CHI to LAX, will these new larger population stops have service at acceptable hours, could we expect OTP to improve, etc.
neroden
Engineer
Estimate is it will take roughly the same amount of time from Newton KS to Albuquerque NM as the SW Chief is scheduled for now.... since a train along the Amarillo route took about that much time in the 1950s!
It could be faster if some effort was made; I don't know whether such effort would be made. There should be no trouble whatsoever in matching the current schedule though. OTP really should be better, though you never know with OTP.
Westbound, Wichita would probably have an 3-something AM stop; Amarillo would have a convenient morning stop and anything from there west would have daytime stops. Eastbound would be much the same: everything would be at reasonable evening times until Wichita, which would be middle of the night.
It could be faster if some effort was made; I don't know whether such effort would be made. There should be no trouble whatsoever in matching the current schedule though. OTP really should be better, though you never know with OTP.
Westbound, Wichita would probably have an 3-something AM stop; Amarillo would have a convenient morning stop and anything from there west would have daytime stops. Eastbound would be much the same: everything would be at reasonable evening times until Wichita, which would be middle of the night.
When places like Wichita and Amarillo haven't had passenger train service in over 43 years, it is difficult to get people to ride trains, again. The market that used the San Francisco Chief until April 30, 1971 is long gone. The average person even in cities with passenger train service doesn't even know it exists or where the station is unless they are in areas with frequent train service like the NEC, or some of the other corridors in the Midwest or West. Yes, there will be die hard rail fans that will be pleased with change, but they cannot cause a train to have the required patronage.
Jim, This sounds more like a "farewell tour" than a promo
. Perhaps BNSF is showing Boardman the tracks they are about to abandon and point out the few population centers served on the route?? And it looks like this train is not the SWC but a special with only big wigs on board. Too bad he doesnt just ride a regular train, sleep in 0330 car bedroom and eat in the diner and spend some time in the lounge car. Might give him a different perspective on riding the real Chief. njulian
Service Attendant
Back to the SWC. As one who lives in southern New Mexico (where the Rail Runner will never even dream of approaching), and being in a place with NO mass transit (can't drive to Alb to get on the train? Good luck.) and with the only other option being the Sunset Limited and its 3 day a week service with no way to get points east of New Orleans without a convoluted route, the SWC is my main train route west and sometimes east. I know I've seen this somewhere but can't recall where..can someone direct me to the proposed route if Raton is bypassed? BTW, everytime I take this route the Raton station is bustling much more than others..especially during the high Boy Scout time and campers going to Philmont.
T
the Duck
Guest
Distance wise---- close to same distance Time wise---should be a lot faster. Transcon splits at Amarillo and part goes southeast to Dallas/FTW Amarillo yard is all time busy. The north and south traffic is as busy as east and west. With new siding and platform there will be no problem at all in Amarillo
Bill, the train orders post says that the VIP consist will depart CHI on #3 and return from ABQ on #4 so my hope is that the suits will get out of Beech Grove and Ocean View etc. And climb aboard the Chief for @ least a Meal each way and to interact with the passengers and crew!Jim, This sounds more like a "farewell tour" than a promo
I'm old and retired but I still think MBWA, Management By Walking Around,,is the way to go for Execs!!!
"Let them eat cake!" just doesn't work!!
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henryj
Conductor
http://www.bnsf.com/about-bnsf/pdf/fact_sheet.pdf
The Transcon goes way south of the current Raton Pass line and passes through Wichita, Amarillo, Clovis, Ft Sumner, Vaughn and Mountainair to Belen where the SWC will have to run up the Rail Runner line to get into Albuquerque and then reverse on the wye south of there to continue on to LA. My guess is it will only make a few stops like Amarillo and Wichita, the last being Clovis, NM. Really depends on which towns get serious about providing facilities and demanding service. It basically follows Hwys 60 and 47.
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