What is happening to the SWC route?

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At this point I suggest that anyone in Amarillo or Wichita, or who plans to travel to either city, should write to Amtrak to show the extent of the market demand. But I'm not sure who to write to (I suppose one could write direct to Boardman).
Taking your advice, I emailed Mr. Boardman. The good news is that he replied pretty quickly. The bad news:

Dear AmarilloByMornin' ,

It is my intent to keep the commitments to those along the existing Chief Route. I understand your interest. The public is way ahead of Congress on the need for connectivity.

Yes we are a private business and we need to make smart decisions and yet we must do our very best to make good on our commitment to our existing customer base at the same time. The United States decided on this long distance network over 40 years ago when it allowed the Freight Railroads to come into being. They were relieved of their money losing passenger traffic by a new company Amtrak. The United States needs to keep their commitment.

I hope at some point your dream of service will be fulfilled but if I can help it, it will not come on the back of those who will lose their service from Dodge City to Raton and beyond.

I wish you well in your quest.

Joe Boardman.

Not exactly what I was hoping for...
Write him back and ask him then what about all that existing customer base on the routes of the Lone Star, Floridian, National Limited, Broadway Limited, Pioneer, Desert Wind, Sunset East, etc. What a stupid reply from one of his lackies. He hopes your 'dream' will be fulfilled. What a crock. It's laughable.
 
Write him back and ask him then what about all that existing customer base on the routes of the Lone Star, Floridian, National Limited, Broadway Limited, Pioneer, Desert Wind, Sunset East, etc. What a stupid reply from one of his lackies. He hopes your 'dream' will be fulfilled. What a crock. It's laughable.
LOL! We're on the same page, I told him how glad I was that the SL into Florida (first one that came to mind) would be restored, going by his statements. I don't think it was one of his lackeys that sent it, the line at the bottom was "sent from my iPhone" - I guess a lackey could set that up on their own iPhone though.

That line about my dreams not being fulfilled 'on the back of those who will lose their service...' - thanks for discerning and judging my motives, Joe! Apparently it's now selfish to want Amtrak access to be reasonably close.
 
Guest_AmarilloByMornin'_*, do you live in Amarillo?

I have been here over 9 years and would really love to have the service. We go to Lamy to catch the train now.
 
printman2000, I'm actually in Dumas. I read (I think in this very thread) that Amarillo bought the Santa Fe Depot. Do they know something Boardman doesn't?
 
printman2000, I'm actually in Dumas. I read (I think in this very thread) that Amarillo bought the Santa Fe Depot. Do they know something Boardman doesn't?
Cool. Welcome to the forum. I hope you will register and become a member.

Yes, the city bought the depot. However, the possibility of Amtrak was just one of the reasons. And they knew it was just a possibility.
 
printman2000, I'm actually in Dumas. I read (I think in this very thread) that Amarillo bought the Santa Fe Depot. Do they know something Boardman doesn't?
Cool. Welcome to the forum. I hope you will register and become a member.

Yes, the city bought the depot. However, the possibility of Amtrak was just one of the reasons. And they knew it was just a possibility.
I really hope that Amtrak gets to use the Santa Fe Depot if they come through Amarillo, I live in Stinnett and I drive 3 hours to Garden City to catch the Chief but it would really be good to only go an hour and board in Amarillo.
 
None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads
I hereby move to bar Henry from uttering the words "bloated overhead" ever again until he actually lays out what parts of Amtrak's overhead are "bloated" and what specific cuts he would make to reduce overhead without affecting the service provided.
Ryan, Jebr and gml. It's been documented and written about by 'pundits' smarter than you guys and I am sure you have read the same stuff I have. So quit harassing me about it. Are you playing the three musketeers or the three stooges? lol. All government agencies are full of 'bloated overhead'.
I look forward to reading your citations.
 
At this point I suggest that anyone in Amarillo or Wichita, or who plans to travel to either city, should write to Amtrak to show the extent of the market demand. But I'm not sure who to write to (I suppose one could write direct to Boardman).
Taking your advice, I emailed Mr. Boardman. The good news is that he replied pretty quickly. The bad news:

Dear AmarilloByMornin' ,

It is my intent to keep the commitments to those along the existing Chief Route. I understand your interest. The public is way ahead of Congress on the need for connectivity.

Yes we are a private business and we need to make smart decisions and yet we must do our very best to make good on our commitment to our existing customer base at the same time. The United States decided on this long distance network over 40 years ago when it allowed the Freight Railroads to come into being. They were relieved of their money losing passenger traffic by a new company Amtrak. The United States needs to keep their commitment.

I hope at some point your dream of service will be fulfilled but if I can help it, it will not come on the back of those who will lose their service from Dodge City to Raton and beyond.

I wish you well in your quest.

Joe Boardman.

Not exactly what I was hoping for...
Yeah. It's a pretty decent letter, though, compared to the usual form letters! I actually appreciate seeing it.

So thank you for writing; who knows, it may make an impact on his thoughts in the long run. Enough letters from Amarillo and he may realize what a market is sitting there waiting for him. (Maybe it's worth writing to the "general manager long distance-services", Mark Murphy, as well?)

I think, politically speaking, Boardman has to say that he'll fight to keep service to Dodge City; I just hope he knows when it's time to cut bait. And that time is, as previously announced, the end of 2014.

He does say "if I can help it". But I doubt he can help it. Back in 2012, he told the cities and states on the existing route they needed to come up with a plan to get the money by the end of 2014. That's a good long lead time. Amtrak and BNSF volunteered 2/5 of the money, and the locals still couldn't do it, with all three state legislatures rejecting any allocation of money. Meanwhile, the state government of NM threw away the entire Raton Pass track to save a measly $5 million dollars in 2013. (Contrast Devil's Lake and ND.)

In 2015, Amtrak should be talking to the locals in Wichita and Amarillo and Clovis and Albuquerque.

My worst case scenario is losing service on the existing route without getting service on the Amarillo route! If Amtrak takes this down to the wire by refusing to talk to the cities on the Transcon route, I'm worried that come 2016 we won't HAVE stations in Amarillo or Wichita.

I'm inclined to say that Amarillo and Wichita should aggressively contact Amtrak and BNSF regarding station design requirements -- even though Amtrak and BNSF don't want to talk to them -- and hire architects to make designs, because they *have* to get this started in early 2015 in order to have stations come 2016-2017.

I see that an Amarillo station is drawing support from as far as Dumas. :) That says to me that people from Hutchinson will mostly be happy to drive to Wichita, and I notice that Boardman refers to those from "Dodge City to Raton and beyond", indicating that he also doesn't think of Hutchinson as losing service. If you count Hutchinson as served by a reroute, the advantages of the reroute become even *more* apparent; Hutchinson is by far the largest city on the existing route.

Assuming that people will drive from Hutchinson to Wichita; that Albuquerque will be served by the wye; that Santa Fe will be served by a a RailRunner connection; the other bypassed cities on the route really don't amount to much. The sum total metro area population of all of them is 126K. To be fair the towns on the current route do "punch above their weight". The ridership of the stops which would be fully bypassed is 46912.

But consider that Amarillo would get significantly better service hours than Flagstaff -- and Flagstaff, with a metro population of 136K, has a ridership of 40390 (though perhaps some of that is driving from Phoenix). Amarillo has a metro population of 250K. Also, Canyon, TX, just outside Amarillo, has West Texas A&M; colleges always punch above their weight and it might even be worth having a second station there.

Losing downtown Hutchinson service would be more than compensated for by gaining downtown Wichita service. Newton isn't even in the Wichita metro area; it's as far away from Wichita as Maricopa is from Phoenix. We all remember how much ridership Phoenix lost when the station moved to Maricopa. Wichita alone, with a metro area population of 623K and a city population of 385K, should generate 28K - 31K passengers even if it has ridership rates as bad as Topeka (which has very bad ridership rates and awful calling hours). Even if we make the unreasonably pessimistic assumption that all the ridership currently at Hutchinson and Newton is from Wichita or would refuse to drive to Wichita, this would still be an increase of over 8K passengers.

People will drive from Dumas to Amarillo. People will drive from Lubbock, which has a metro area population of 290K, to Amarillo. Clovis will gain yet more passengers (including those from Roswell and Carlsbad). If a station is placed in Woodward, people will drive from Dodge City to Woodward (it's the same distance as Lubbock to Amarillo.)

The improved ridership on the Transcon will dwarf the "Philmont" effect. (Philmont isn't even on the Raton Pass route; the Scouts have to take a bus anyway, so they can and will take the bus from Albuquerque.) Furthermore, except for Dodge City, the cities which would be bypassed are all *shrinking*. (Boy Scout membership is shrinking too.) Amtrak needs to follow the population, rather than spend hundreds of millions every year just to stay on the route with a shrinking population!

I am quite sure ridership will go up with a switch to the Transcon route, IF suitable stations are built. The Transcon route is just *better* -- ridership will *have* to go up. Given some investment, ridership could go up a *lot*.

There's just so much potential on the Transcon route -- and so little on the La Junta/Raton route. Sorry to the person living in Raton (population 6607), but since I live in a metro area with a population over 100K and we don't have connecting bus service to the nearest train station, I am far more sympathetic to the population of Amarillo than to you.

As for the people on the existing route? Get them some Thruway buses. I don't like bustitution, but it's better than nothing. Amtrak considered a bus to be good enough for the people on the Ocala route in Florida (which has much more population).

Amtrak could simply run a Thruway bus on the existing train route; it would probably even run faster than the train, since western Kansas's highways are completely uncongested. But Amtrak could probably do better than that. There's already a Greyhound route across Raton Pass, which extends from Albuquerque to Denver; better connecting schedules could be contracted. There's also already a Greyhound route from Lamar to Amarillo, and it's even timed right for connections to Chicago on a rerouted SW Chief. Dodge City, the only growing city on the route, deserves some good bus connections; probably the correct thing to do is to run one route Denver-Pueblo-Dodge City-Wichita with eastbound SW Chief connection, and another route Dodge City - Woodward - OKC with a westbound SW Chief connection.

Speaking of buses, a Thruway route from Amarillo to Lubbock to Midland/Odessa should also be a successful feeder to the Transcon route. Design it for eastbound connections. Allow people to stay overnight in Amarillo for the westbound connections (i.e. don't be stupid about the ticketing the way they are on California Thruway buses), for a little extra ridership.

My fear: Amtrak may, as "jis" says, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory if they fail to do the planning for the reroute. :help: The three nightmare scenarios: no LA-Chicago train at all; a train with no stops between Newton and Albuquerque (or even farther, if Amtrak idiotically fails to rebuild the wye in ABQ); a train running slower than molasses over a 30mph Raton Pass. If Amtrak does not get the money committed for the existing route by the end of 2014 (and it won't, it's not actually possible given the legislative schedules), then Amtrak *needs* to start working on the Transcon reroute ASAP on January 1st, 2015.
 
I really hope that Amtrak gets to use the Santa Fe Depot if they come through Amarillo, I live in Stinnett and I drive 3 hours to Garden City to catch the Chief but it would really be good to only go an hour and board in Amarillo.
OK, you really should write to Boardman and/or Mark Murphy. Explain that you ARE Amtrak's "existing customer base" to which Amtrak has made "commitments", and you ARE one of "those along the existing route", and your trip would be much improved by a reroute to Amarillo!
I suspect Amtrak doesn't actually understand the market they're serving here.
 
Thanks for the encouragement, neroden. You're absolutely right - I know some diehard Amtrak people from the university in Lubbock who would gladly make the trip even without thruway service (but I can only imagine how many more would if it did exist). There is support all over the Texas panhandle from people much farther away from Amarillo than I am. I will try writing to Mark Murphy and hope that he's a little less blind than Mr. Boardman. I suppose that's not fair - you're probably right that he has to say what he did until time runs out. Then he can say later that he tried like heck (and I can vouch for him!).
 
None of them are Government run agencies with bloated overheads
I hereby move to bar Henry from uttering the words "bloated overhead" ever again until he actually lays out what parts of Amtrak's overhead are "bloated" and what specific cuts he would make to reduce overhead without affecting the service provided.
Ryan, Jebr and gml. It's been documented and written about by 'pundits' smarter than you guys and I am sure you have read the same stuff I have. So quit harassing me about it. Are you playing the three musketeers or the three stooges? lol. All government agencies are full of 'bloated overhead'.
I look forward to reading your citations.
Come on now Ryan with a name like henryj (an old car) he probably thinks that citations are an bunch of old Chevys.
 
Come on now Ryan with a name like henryj (an old car) he probably thinks that citations are an bunch of old Chevys.
LOL Oldtimer. You are the only one that has noticed that. It was made by Kaiser-Fraser in the early 1950's and also sold by Alstate(Sears). It was not succesful. Kaiser-Fraser later bought Willys Jeep and that ended up as part of American motors and then Chrysler now owned by Fiat where it is today. Or something like that. Ryan will never get his 'citations'. lol.
 
Amtrak CEO ‘committed’ to keeping route through northern New Mexico alive

CIMARRON— Amtrak CEO and President Joe Boardman said his organization wants to see the Southwest Chief rail route continue taking passengers through northern New Mexico beyond 2015. A portion of the train’s daily route from Chicago to Los Angeles route could be rerouted from Northern New Mexico and parts of Kansas and Colorado starting on Jan.1, 2016 if Amtrak, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railways, and the states of New Mexico, Colorado and Kansas do not come up with a way to fund the line’s deteriorating infrastructure.

“I am committed to delivering this service the way it was established,” Boardman said Saturday (July 11) during his visit to the Philmont Scout Ranch outside Cimarron, which was part of his train trip through Northern New Mexico.
 
Keep writing Boardman in favor of the better route, through Amarillo. If he delays too long in planning it, we might lose our only direct LA-Chicago service entirely.

...well, I wrote my letter. I was actually a bit lower-key about the benefits of the Amarillo route than I usually am, because I wanted to emphasize that my priority is to retain the LA-Albuquerque-Chicago route one way or another. I focused on the importance of having a plan B if the money for the Raton Pass route does not show up at the end of the year, which it won't.
 
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There are so many facets to this issue that are out of focus it is all most makes one sick. The line belongs to BNSF--if any one is going to raise money for its upkeep, it should be BNSF. Amtrak is just a renter of the line. As a renter, if you don't like the way your landlord is maintaining the place--you move. Amtrak has already been told at the end of contract( DEC.31, 2015) they can no longer use the route (at BNSF expense). Too soothe Amtrak , BNSF threw a carrot they thought was unattainable---Amtrak find money to bring line up to standards and maintain it, Remember BNSF owns the line and any work done on it must be to BNSF standards and becomes property of BNSF. So any and all donations to project are to BNSF. Amtrak is asking the state of New Mexico to do that which its constitution forbids. Read "New Mexico State Rail Plan" on internet page1-7. What is the best way to handle an unruly renter? Was it a good thing for BNSF to throw Amtrak a carrot or should have BNSF been blunt and said no more use after contract.. Note: The Transcon has always been considered an alternate route for the Southwest Chief. What is your feed back?
 
Many in the media and Congress consider the LD routes "tourist trains for rich old people", and the 20mph slow (but scenic) route over Raton Pass helps to perpetuate this image. If Amtrak is in the transportation business rather than the tourist train business, they should always be looking for ways to serve bigger markets rather than preserve "scenic".
 
Let Amtrak fade into Sunset if that is the choice. Where real markets are for rail passenger service, private business will enter.
Anything that doesn't generate profit for Wall Street needs to die.
 
Losing downtown Hutchinson service would be more than compensated for by gaining downtown Wichita service. Newton isn't even in the Wichita metro area; it's as far away from Wichita as Maricopa is from Phoenix. We all remember how much ridership Phoenix lost when the station moved to Maricopa. Wichita alone, with a metro area population of 623K and a city population of 385K, should generate 28K - 31K passengers even if it has ridership rates as bad as Topeka (which has very bad ridership rates and awful calling hours). Even if we make the unreasonably pessimistic assumption that all the ridership currently at Hutchinson and Newton is from Wichita or would refuse to drive to Wichita, this would still be an increase of over 8K passengers.

...

Amtrak could simply run a Thruway bus on the existing train route; it would probably even run faster than the train, since western Kansas's highways are completely uncongested. But Amtrak could probably do better than that. There's already a Greyhound route across Raton Pass, which extends from Albuquerque to Denver; better connecting schedules could be contracted. There's also already a Greyhound route from Lamar to Amarillo, and it's even timed right for connections to Chicago on a rerouted SW Chief. Dodge City, the only growing city on the route, deserves some good bus connections; probably the correct thing to do is to run one route Denver-Pueblo-Dodge City-Wichita with eastbound SW Chief connection, and another route Dodge City - Woodward - OKC with a westbound SW Chief connection.
I'm generally in agreement. Just a couple of notes. Newton is in the Wichita MSA (Newton is in Harvey County and the Wichita MSA consists of Butler, Harvey, Sedgwick, and Sumner Counties), but it is separated from the Wichita urbanized area by a fair distance of undeveloped land.

Also, there is bus service that runs Wichita-Dodge City-Garden City-Lamar-La Junta-Pueblo (plus other intermediate stops). There is also a Wichita-Newton-Hutchinson-Salina route operated by the same bus line. The schedules would need to be adjusted to better function as a Thruway service, though.
 
Amtrak CEO: Save the Southwest Chief

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – It could be a huge blow for the metro – talks about badly needed track repairs for Amtrak could mean the money-making train could skip Albuquerque altogether.
In an attempt to save that route, the president and CEO of Amtrak took a train ride through New Mexico on Saturday to talk to city officials about funding.
“We really see an opportunity here to work with New Mexico,” Joe Beardman, CEO of Amtrak said.
Boardman also says he wants to see the “Southwest Chief” stay on its current route. About 350,000 people take Amtrak’s Southwest Chief route every year.
 
Many in the media and Congress consider the LD routes "tourist trains for rich old people", and the 20mph slow (but scenic) route over Raton Pass helps to perpetuate this image. If Amtrak is in the transportation business rather than the tourist train business, they should always be looking for ways to serve bigger markets rather than preserve "scenic".
Doesn't need to be either/or.

Oughta be both/and.
 
Just to throw a little current knowledge in this thread, that isn't super relevant but whatever: I am aboard the SWC heading east and we are now in an hour and a half delay at Raton while they go fetch another engine (or whatever) that is actually capable of getting us up the Raton Pass.

Is there a proposed route that skips this problem but still serves Albuquerque? I don't care about scenery, I care about getting from LA to points East.

EDIT: I said "still serves Albuquerque" because it seems like a popular enough stop. But me personally I all I want is Northeast to SoCal travel, preferrably not via New Orleans.
 
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Just to throw a little current knowledge in this thread, that isn't super relevant but whatever: I am aboard the SWC heading east and we are now in an hour and a half delay at Raton while they go fetch another engine (or whatever) that is actually capable of getting us up the Raton Pass.

Is there a proposed route that skips this problem but still serves Albuquerque? I don't care about scenery, I care about getting from LA to points East.
The Transcon.
 
Northern NM Amtrak route needs $200 million in repairs

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. —A number of New Mexico communities rely on Amtrak's Southwest Chief, but the Chief is in danger.


If someone doesn't step up to pay for track repairs, the train may have to switch routes, and small New Mexico towns would be hurt most.

Right now, the Southwest Chief stops in places like Raton and Las Vegas on its way from Kansas. In many spots, the tracks are falling apart and no one is coming forward with money to fix them.

Without improved tracks, Amtrak could move the route out of northern New Mexico as soon as 2016.

Albuquerque Mayor Richard Berry said it's time for others on the route to figure out how to keep the Chief right where it is.

Caution: video clip auto-plays.
 
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